[DgjoX6M2016]

Originally Posted by babyghost

Guys wrinklegate is not over, production date Nov 02, Ivory white night blue full merino leather. I don't think this is acceptable, there is a big bulge on the left side that is very noticeable, it's not even wrinkle anymore.

Yikes. That is indeed unacceptable. They need to replace those seats.

[chrisvd183]

Hello alll this is a picture of mine.
My sales said it is "normal" ....
But i don't know. Anyone suggestions ?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by chrisvd183

Hello alll this is a picture of mine.
My sales said it is "normal" ....
But i don't know. Anyone suggestions ?

It is always tough to tell from pictures but looks to be in the "intended wrinkle" range.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by chrisvd183

Hello alll this is a picture of mine.
My sales said it is "normal" ....
But i don't know. Anyone suggestions ?

I believe your SA told you the honest truth...and for me, that is where the problem is. Look, if you like it, isn't that really all that matters?

[chrisvd183]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

I believe your SA told you the honest truth...and for me, that is where the problem is. Look, if you like it, isn't that really all that matters?

To be honesst ... true ! But in my F15 it wasn't like this....

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by chrisvd183

But in my F15 it wasn't like this....

That is correct. From numerous sources, BMW received a lot of complaints regarding the comfort of the rear seats in the F15 so the "wrinkles" are an attempt to alleviate that.

[BMPHIL]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

That is correct. From numerous sources, BMW received a lot of complaints regarding the comfort of the rear seats in the F15 so the "wrinkles" are an attempt to alleviate that.

If that's correct the wrinkles should be on all cars and the same on them.
They are there because of BAD manufacturing techniques.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BMPHIL

If that's correct the wrinkles should be on all cars and the same on them.
They are there because of BAD manufacturing techniques.

There may have been a few without them but very few so they are on all vehicles for all practical purposes. It is not possible to logically argue they are there by mistake.

[BMPHIL]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

There may have been a few without them but very few so they are on all vehicles for all practical purposes. It is not possible to logically argue they are there by mistake.

It is my opinion they shouldn't be there as it is your opinion they should.
If they should be there by design they should be consistent on all cars not different from car to car, that's how mass production works, also why are they not on the front seats if they are for practical purposes.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BMPHIL

It is my opinion they shouldn't be there as it is your opinion they should.
If they should be there by design they should be consistent on all cars not different from car to car, that's how mass production works, also why are they not on the front seats if they are for practical purposes.

We aren’t talking about an opinion on whether they should have been designed like that or not. In order to say they are not by design, it is impossible to come up with a plausible argument as to how that can be given all of the different departments, people and processes that are involved.

You have to keep in mind we are not talking about the cases where there have been excessive wrinkles. They occur because of poor material, poor workmanship, etc. and are of course not be design. If you look at the other 99% of the seats you should see a fairly consistent pattern in how the “wrinkles” are laid out and the seats produced.

As soon as they offer bench seats in the front you can ask that question, until then it sort of hurts your position.

[videoman535i]

BMPHIL (and others in this most popular thread) has it exactly right - if the wrinkles were intentional then we would all have them and they would be consistent between left and right, front to back, and vehicle to vehicle. We could discuss whether we liked it or not from an aesthetic perspective, but we wouldn't be arguing about the intentionality.

I don't understand the suggestion that the wrinkles are there to increase the comfort of the seats. If that were the case then the ultra luxury brands would have them. To my knowledge they do not.

If a wrinkled leather seat was the key to comfort, I think the world would have discovered this years ago. It would be common knowledge, it would be how all seats are made, and it wouldn't be a topic of discussion here.

[LexxM3]

Originally Posted by videoman535i

BMPHIL (and others in this most popular thread) has it exactly right - if the wrinkles were intentional then we would all have them and they would be consistent between left and right, front to back, and vehicle to vehicle. We could discuss whether we liked it or not from an aesthetic perspective, but we wouldn't be arguing about the intentionality.

I don't understand the suggestion that the wrinkles are there to increase the comfort of the seats. If that were the case then the ultra luxury brands would have them. To my knowledge they do not.

If a wrinkled leather seat was the key to comfort, I think the world would have discovered this years ago. It would be common knowledge, it would be how all seats are made, and it wouldn't be a topic of discussion here.

Tilting at windmills. TurtleBoy has been on a mission to convince us that the wrinkles are intentional design, even with overwhelming evidence of high variety from smooth to highly lumpy, for a long long time. There is little point arguing against it. The rest of us are clear how mass production and quality control is supposed to work — nothing with this variety is intentional. Excuses, sometimes called "marketing", ARE intentional, however.

[TurtleBoy]

I guess the old saying is true, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Right now there is a very thirsty herd unfortunately.

[Carbonx5]

Production end of Nov 2019. At least one of the seats is covered by a baby seat for a few years. Definitely looks worse in picture than in person though.

[Beefcake]

Originally Posted by chrisvd183

Hello alll this is a picture of mine.
My sales said it is "normal" ....
But i don't know. Anyone suggestions ?

Hi Chris,

Don’t accept this as normal.
Someone else from this forum discussed this with BMW Belux and had his seats fixed! BMW Belux even paid for it. The more people complaint and demand a fix, the sooner BMW will attack at the root. Each Belux customer should do the same. Let them have to pay 3000€ for each delivery... it will end soon.

Just search the forum. I remember reading it in a delivery of a 45e

Go for it! I wouldn’t accept this ‘intentional’ sales blabla either.

[Sea Bandit]

Originally Posted by Beefcake

Hi Chris,

Don’t accept this as normal.
Someone else from this forum discussed this with BMW Belux and had his seats fixed! BMW Belux even paid for it. The more people complaint and demand a fix, the sooner BMW will attack at the root. Each Belux customer should do the same. Let them have to pay 3000€ for each delivery... it will end soon.

Just search the forum. I remember reading it in a delivery of a 45e

Go for it! I wouldn’t accept this ‘intentional’ sales blabla either.

Agree with you 100% !!! We are paying a lot of money and we need to have perfect car without any mistakes, abnormalities...

[babyghost]

The first thing my friend pointed out when he gets in the car for the first time was those back seats. He asked "what's going on with the leather? " I'm just not happy I paid $2000 for the full leather and got this.

[randybobandy]

I’m just confused...the seats are going to get worn in, mushed down, and wrinkled when people sit in them? Again, I get that it came like this...notify your dealership and BMW customer relations. If they say it’s normal, have them annotate that you brought this concern to their attention. Move on, enjoy the car, let the seats break in. If they start coming apart and/or continue to look like ass, then badger them again.

Not sure if people are leasing or purchasing, but it seems like on 3 year lease...take their explanation, even if you don’t agree, turn the car in at the end and move on. I hate to say it, but every car is going to have some type of “issue”. Like I said earlier, if you want to fight that fight, then so be it. I would put them on notice, in writing, and go about your business. File a complaint through whoever your country’s consumer protection agency might be. Again, I would let the seats break in. They’re going to show signs of wear and never look factory brand spanking new once you get people consistently in the back. My seats have people back there regularly, 100lb dog on them or on top with the seats folded down. They are holding up and look great. Again, this is just my opinion, so please don’t crucify me!

[LexxM3]

Originally Posted by randybobandy

I'm just confused...the seats are going to get worn in, mushed down, and wrinkled when people sit in them? Again, I get that it came like this...notify your dealership and BMW customer relations. If they say it's normal, have them annotate that you brought this concern to their attention. Move on, enjoy the car, let the seats break in. If they start coming apart and/or continue to look like ass, then badger them again.

Not sure if people are leasing or purchasing, but it seems like on 3 year lease...take their explanation, even if you don't agree, turn the car in at the end and move on. I hate to say it, but every car is going to have some type of "issue". Like I said earlier, if you want to fight that fight, then so be it. I would put them on notice, in writing, and go about your business. File a complaint through whoever your country's consumer protection agency might be. Again, I would let the seats break in. They're going to show signs of wear and never look factory brand spanking new once you get people consistently in the back. My seats have people back there regularly, 100lb dog on them or on top with the seats folded down. They are holding up and look great. Again, this is just my opinion, so please don't crucify me!

This is practical advice, of course.

I think what annoys the rest of us is a) we paid a lot of money and obviously a premium to a brand that literally advertises attention to all detail, b) they haven't solved an obvious manufacturing issue in well over a year of manufacturing their flagship car, and c) they have the gall to bullshit us with the "by design" assertion all this time while continuing to actively advertise a falsehood and perfection.

[randybobandy]

Originally Posted by LexxM3

This is practical advice, of course.

I think what annoys the rest of us is a) we paid a lot of money and obviously a premium to a brand that literally advertises attention to all detail, b) they haven't solved an obvious manufacturing issue in well over a year of manufacturing their flagship car, and c) they have the gall to bullshit us with the "by design" assertion all this time while continuing to actively advertise a falsehood and perfection.

Oh I agree with you 100%. The problem is we need a collective voice to blast them. I look at BMW's customer service is on par with trying to get a law changed. You have to drill them consistently and constantly. I guess where my lack of knowledge or experience is being relatively new to BMW. This is my second BMW and first X5. Having own SUVs previously, the "leather" in American brands are cheap. You don't notice any issues (in my experience) since the material is usually pleather. It's always stretch tight, but you definitely can feel a quality difference.

We almost need a new section on this forum with collective issues. This way, we might be able to coordinate our efforts in getting some resolution. A complaint here and there...they won't do anything. I'm all for fighting the good fight if we go at it together!

[LexxM3]

Originally Posted by randybobandy

Oh I agree with you 100%. The problem is we need a collective voice to blast them. I look at BMW's customer service is on par with trying to get a law changed. You have to drill them consistently and constantly. I guess where my lack of knowledge or experience is being relatively new to BMW. This is my second BMW and first X5. Having own SUVs previously, the "leather" in American brands are cheap. You don't notice any issues (in my experience) since the material is usually pleather. It's always stretch tight, but you definitely can feel a quality difference.

We almost need a new section on this forum with collective issues. This way, we might be able to coordinate our efforts in getting some resolution. A complaint here and there...they won't do anything. I'm all for fighting the good fight if we go at it together!

Yes, organizing random discussions to extract actionable issue data and, perhaps, action is a challenge on forums. Since my first serious involvements in forums in this context (2001 onward E46M3 exploding engines and transmission clunk, and then defective VANOS hub design issues) I've wished for such a facility. Wish forum designers would listen and provide design structures for the issue tracking use case as well, but this has not happened yet in almost 20 years of forums and 35+ years of online discussions (Usenet anyone?).

[randybobandy]

Originally Posted by LexxM3

Yes, organizing random discussions to extract actionable issue data and, perhaps, action is a challenge on forums. Since my first serious involvements in forums in this context (2001 onward E46M3 exploding engines and transmission clunk, and then defective VANOS hub design issues) I've wished for such a facility. Wish forum designers would listen and provide design structures for the issue tracking use case as well, but this has not happened yet in almost 20 years of forums and 35+ years of online discussions (Usenet anyone?).

Damn LexxM3 ...you're an OG on here! Is there a way the moderators can add a section? As you mentioned, it is tough trying to search each thread and get a discussion going/trying to get on the same page. We almost need a section and then various threads on "verified" issues reported by multiple people. Then just keep on topic and coordinate our efforts. Might be a lot of work, but at least we might be able to get some resolution.