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      01-26-2021, 12:53 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
Anyone can squeeze power out of a turbo motor but not everyone installs all the items that are supposed to accompany the increased output. None of which is an air-filter alone.

Look at the myriad of differences between the F15 and F85:
https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...8&d=1443029187
I don't think anyone claimed that installing a set of air filters was anything more than a minor upgrade. With any significant improvement in performance, it would be wise to install more capable wheels, tires, brakes, and suspension components It's a work in progress.

The F15 and the F85 had completely different engine layouts.

The standard G05 and F95 also have completely different layouts.

The M50i variants of the G05 and the F95..... do not however. They are virtually identical in chassis, engine, transmission, drivetrain, etc.
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      01-26-2021, 05:48 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Ninefourteener View Post
The M50i variants of the G05 and the F95..... do not however. They are virtually identical in chassis, engine, transmission, drivetrain, etc.
I don't know nearly as much as you or iconoclast in regards to these BMW's, yet, but I have read alot and typically do a fair bit of research. The C&D article I posted earlier actually somewhat contradicted themselves just a bit.

In one sentence they say, "It’s not a full-on M version like the X6 M, so the chassis isn’t quite as aggressively tuned and it has a different version of the twin-turbo 4.4-liter V-8 under the hood."

Yet, later on they say, "The twin-turbo 4.4-liter V-8 is essentially the same unit found in the M5 and X6 M, just with less boost."

This is where I got my assumption that both engines are 95% the same. IDK.

I do know that I love this car's engine and chassis. I love how compliant yet firm it is, but can get real sporty, real quick with the push of a button. I would love to have 700CHP, but not at the detrimate of the integrity of its internal components.

I've read where some say the Comfort mode of a true M is the M50i's Sport setting. I prefer the Comfort mode of the M50i on the daily. Sport+ does get used, but 1-2 times a month. I live in the mountains of East Tennessee, afterall, and I love me some twisty roads!
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      01-26-2021, 08:55 AM   #47
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Below you can see the upgrades done to the N63 engine throughout the years. I would say that the first itteration of the N63 is MUCH differenent from the S63 - which shows in the reliability figures.

However, it seems that BMW has done A LOT more upgrades and improvements to the N63 to bring it closer to the S63 - which already was making a significant amount of power. Still, they are not the same, although the power output is getting closer and closer and through a simple tune (and upgrade such as the charcoal filter removal) the N63 surpasses it as it's become a very capable engine.

As you can see, in the latest M50i engine, they have started using some S63 components.

"63TU3 forged rods are carried over from the 591 horsepower S63TU4. Larger turbochargers are responsible for the significant increase in power and torque. Finally, the ignition system is updated to support the new found power."

https://bmwtuning.co/bmw-n63-vs-n63t...tu2-vs-n63tu3/
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      01-26-2021, 05:44 PM   #48
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Ok, not to beat this dead horse any more, but I've been doing some digging. It seems that iconoclast is correct. Even though these engines are similar, that similarity really only applies at the basic level. The M50i's N63B44T3 (N63TU3) does not have the capibilty engineered into it to handle the increased boost to get to 700HP. Not that it can't, but it surely wasn't designed with that kinda thrust in mind. The M variants (S63) do have that capability, though. They say the Devil is in the details. To me, the S63 has more details.

The articles below go into fairly good detail as to the differences between the N63 and the S63. I know they are 2 years old, but I assume what was true then is now, as well. Maybe not. Maybe in those 2 years, the gap closed considerably...?!?

I would love to have a tune, but these articles definitely give me pause...for now, lol.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...them-the-same/
https://bimmerlife.com/2018/08/23/n6...evolution/amp/
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      01-26-2021, 09:10 PM   #49
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I think you are confusing the old N63 variants with the new ones, although I can't fault you for that since BMW really should have updated the designation besides just adding a couple of letters at the end. While I'm sure the S63 has obvious advantages, most of them just read like hyped up gimmicks to warrant the price increase. You have to keep in mind that in the previous generation, the BMW 550i was competing with the S6, who also had a turbocharged V8 and forced BMW to build an engine that's not at M5 level, but at the same time could compete with the German counterparts.

One great example is Carbahn (formerly Dinan), who tune it to almost 700 hp and offer a factory warranty match. I'm confident their R&D was put to good use to ensure that this is reliable. They would either not offer the warranty or they would decrease their figures to something that's reliable if they thought 700 hp via a simple tune was not viable long term.

Writing "bigger turbos" does not give me enough information to see exactly what the difference between the two is. In what way and by how much are they bigger? Reading the comparison, if anything, the S63 seems like it's overengineered where more things are bound to go wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XSixxx View Post
Ok, not to beat this dead horse any more, but I've been doing some digging. It seems that iconoclast is correct. Even though these engines are similar, that similarity really only applies at the basic level. The M50i's N63B44T3 (N63TU3) does not have the capibilty engineered into it to handle the increased boost to get to 700HP. Not that it can't, but it surely wasn't designed with that kinda thrust in mind. The M variants (S63) do have that capability, though. They say the Devil is in the details. To me, the S63 has more details.

The articles below go into fairly good detail as to the differences between the N63 and the S63. I know they are 2 years old, but I assume what was true then is now, as well. Maybe not. Maybe in those 2 years, the gap closed considerably...?!?

I would love to have a tune, but these articles definitely give me pause...for now, lol.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...them-the-same/
https://bimmerlife.com/2018/08/23/n6...evolution/amp/

Last edited by AmooManiak; 01-26-2021 at 09:18 PM..
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      01-27-2021, 11:31 AM   #50
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Update:

Price is finally available. Their MSRP is $189.
Not too bad.

I placed some stocking order on them.
Will update again once I have exact ETA.
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      01-27-2021, 11:39 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r33_RGSport View Post
Update:

Price is finally available. Their MSRP is $189.
Not too bad.

I placed some stocking order on them.
Will update again once I have exact ETA.
Awesome. I'm ready for a pre-order when you are. Take my money and gimme a place in line, lol.
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      01-27-2021, 12:15 PM   #52
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What type of performance increases can one expected from these? I know it's hard to gauge these specific ones, but generally speaking from K&N filters.
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      01-27-2021, 12:27 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XSixxx View Post
Awesome. I'm ready for a pre-order when you are. Take my money and gimme a place in line, lol.
I have you on my waiting list, I'll let you know once I have the exact ETA.
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      01-27-2021, 03:19 PM   #54
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Just to report back...

I finally got a chance to get her out after removing the charcoal filters. Traffic was a bit too much to feel if there are any real power gains to be had (no WOT pulls), BUT I did feel like there were some sound gains. It could totally have been the placebo effect, but I thought she did sound a bit deeper on normal driving in Comfort mode.

I'm sure there has to be a little performance gain. I mean, after all, you've freed up potentially as much as 50% of the engines breathing capability. That has to be worth something! Same will go for when you replace the OEM paper filter with a BMC. More flow should mean more power, right? Of course, those true numbers will only be had when/if someone does a dyno before and after installation. I'm not planning on doing that...but I'd be grateful if someone actually does!

Wasn't there reports of the M850i guys getting, like, 25-30 HP gain...? Sounds absurd to me.

At any rate, again, could just be my imagination, but removing the charcoal filters made the exhaust seem better/deeper and that's all I was hoping for anyway. Will be interesting to see if that trend continues when the BMC filters are installed, too.
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      01-27-2021, 03:34 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r33_RGSport View Post
Update:

Price is finally available. Their MSRP is $189.
Not too bad.

I placed some stocking order on them.
Will update again once I have exact ETA.
That is for the pair right?
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      01-27-2021, 04:20 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XSixxx View Post
Just to report back...

I finally got a chance to get her out after removing the carbon filters. Traffic was a bit too much to feel if there are any real power gains to be had (no WOT pulls), BUT I did feel like there were some sound gains. It could totally have been the placebo effect, but I thought she did sound a bit deeper on normal driving in Comfort mode.

I'm sure there has to be a little performance gain. I mean, after all, you removed potentially as much as 50% of the engines breathing capability. That has to be worth something! Same will go for when you replace the OEM paper filter with a BMC. More flow should mean more power, right? Of course, those true numbers will only be had when/if someone does a dyno before and after installation. I'm not planning on doing that...but I'd be grateful if someone actually does!

Wasn't there reports of the M850i guys getting, like, 25-30 HP gain...? Sounds crazy to me.

At any rate, again, could just be my imagination, but removing the carbon filters made the exhaust seem better/deeper and that's all I was hoping for anyway. Will be interesting to see if that trend continues when the BMC filters are installed, too.
I'll let you know. Mine will be here next week.

Truthfully, I don't expect much. 25-30hp? No way.

Honestly, realistically, I would say 10-12. Not much more.

Maybe a bit more sound.... i definitely prefer to clean when I need to versus finding another filter set. That's a perk too.

For a car enthusiast, they are a necessity.... because even 5hp is worth it.

For everyone else? Not so much.
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      01-27-2021, 04:36 PM   #57
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So just to be clear...if you remove the current carbon filters and have to wait a few months to get the BMC you will be running with NO air filter at all? or are these carbon filters in addition to the regular air filters? Running with no air filters isn't a real good idea..no?
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      01-27-2021, 04:47 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by r33_RGSport View Post
Update:

Price is finally available. Their MSRP is $189.
Not too bad.

I placed some stocking order on them.
Will update again once I have exact ETA.
That is for the pair right?
I believe so.
I don't think they'll just sell 1 side.
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      01-27-2021, 05:51 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denaliman View Post
So just to be clear...if you remove the current carbon filters and have to wait a few months to get the BMC you will be running with NO air filter at all? or are these carbon filters in addition to the regular air filters? Running with no air filters isn't a real good idea..no?
The 2 charcoal filters are there In Addition To the 2 regular engine air intake filters. Some BMW models (in N. America) have the secondary charcoal filters only for emission purposes to limit fuel vapors from coming out of the car when it is turned off.
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      01-27-2021, 05:59 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeIn2 View Post
The 2 charcoal filters are there In Addition To the 2 regular engine air intake filters. Some BMW models (in N. America) have the secondary charcoal filters only for emission purposes to limit fuel vapors from coming out of the car when it is turned off.
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      01-27-2021, 06:11 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmooManiak View Post
What type of performance increases can one expected from these?
The reduced weight from your wallet should yield the forum standard of "+15hp". Outside of an incremental increase in engine note and a negligible improvement of MPG don't expect much to translate to the wheels as a stand-alone "upgrade" however that being said I will be installing it and really do not care about anything but sprucing up the muted sound of the motor at WOT and coupled with the removal of the charcoal emission filters it may yield a minor increase at highway speeds.
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      01-27-2021, 06:22 PM   #62
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that being said I will be installing it and really do not care about anything but sprucing up the muted sound of the motor at WOT and coupled with the removal of the charcoal emission filters it may yield a minor increase at highway speeds.
This!

My thoughts, exactly.
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      01-28-2021, 03:34 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r33_RGSport View Post
Update:

Price is finally available. Their MSRP is $189.
Not too bad.

I placed some stocking order on them.
Will update again once I have exact ETA.
First post updated with pricing.
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      01-28-2021, 03:52 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Ninefourteener View Post
First post updated with pricing.

$239.99 in Canada.
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      01-29-2021, 03:28 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denaliman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninefourteener View Post
First post updated with pricing.

$239.99 in Canada.
Hi can you please share where did you find price and availability in Canada?
Thanks.
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      01-29-2021, 06:25 PM   #66
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Hi can you please share where did you find price and availability in Canada?
Thanks.

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