[omasou]

WSJ Opinion: Buyers Just Say No to Electric Vehicles
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/wsj-...170700851.html

Are Americans Falling Out of Love With EVs?
https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/a...h-evs-2c7e6a1a

[eluded]

They just don't work for a lot of people's use cases. Those that fit the requirement have already purchase them. The technology is evolving rapidly (think iPhone) and now they are suffering depreciation like never before (Tesla), worse than a BMW.

[Nahlem]

Then this is good news if we can see massive dropping prices on EVs from now on the more will start to look at them as viable options when it comes to the 2nd market.

Auto makers needs to lower the prices of their Evs for more people to want to buy them.

If we get the prices down to a "normal" level of buyers, we will probably see a second explosion of evs being sold but on the 2nd market.

By 2030s when solid state is in place or mixed chemistry batteries like the one recently tested in the IX reaching 900 kms on WLTP cycle. We will probably reach a point where a lot of people buying their first cars from the 2nd market will look at EVs as an option and not opting out because of the prices.

That will be the change that is good for this market. Gas stations today will want to add EV charging to their infrastructures to keep customers coming back but probably a name change will be in place, sense Gas/Charing will be available as options there.

[ppointer]

Sometimes when I am considering investment opportunities, I ask my millennial daughters about their use or perception of a product. So, they look at Tesla as an aspirational product, which is a bullish sign for me. The problem, though, is a limited market, as only one of them is in a position to be able to purchase even a $30k car of any type. Also, I would find it impossible for an EV to be my only vehicle, considering the range and the availability of chargers. But I do not know the solution of long term ownership while living in an apartment, as few apartment complexes in my area have significant (if any) EV chargers.

Recently, the HOA of one my condos started to consider possible solutions to EV ownership for the 32-unit building. We have an underground garage with assigned parking. Sure, we could do an assessment to pay for the runs of 240v electric to each owner's spots, for perhaps $2k each. Then, we need to consider fire protection, since EV spontaneous combustion is a thing and our sprinkler system is not robust enough to deal with an EV fire.

I would prefer to see limited government involvement here. Notice I didn't say no government involvement, since I am uncertain the free market would have implemented passive restraint systems and airbags on their own, as well as other worthwhile safety upgrades. But these states that have considered abolishing the sale of ICE vehicles in the near future? No, that slows innovation rather than accelerates it.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by ppointer

Recently, the HOA of one my condos started to consider possible solutions to EV ownership for the 32-unit building. We have an underground garage with assigned parking. Sure, we could do an assessment to pay for the runs of 240v electric to each owner's spots, for perhaps $2k each. Then, we need to consider fire protection, since EV spontaneous combustion is a thing and our sprinkler system is not robust enough to deal with an EV fire.

It is going to cost a lot more than 2k per parking space...

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by ppointer

Sometimes when I am considering investment opportunities, I ask my millennial daughters about their use or perception of a product. So, they look at Tesla as an aspirational product, which is a bullish sign for me. The problem, though, is a limited market, as only one of them is in a position to be able to purchase even a $30k car of any type. Also, I would find it impossible for an EV to be my only vehicle, considering the range and the availability of chargers. But I do not know the solution of long term ownership while living in an apartment, as few apartment complexes in my area have significant (if any) EV chargers.

Recently, the HOA of one my condos started to consider possible solutions to EV ownership for the 32-unit building. We have an underground garage with assigned parking. Sure, we could do an assessment to pay for the runs of 240v electric to each owner's spots, for perhaps $2k each. Then, we need to consider fire protection, since EV spontaneous combustion is a thing and our sprinkler system is not robust enough to deal with an EV fire.

I would prefer to see limited government involvement here. Notice I didn't say no government involvement, since I am uncertain the free market would have implemented passive restraint systems and airbags on their own, as well as other worthwhile safety upgrades. But these states that have considered abolishing the sale of ICE vehicles in the near future? No, that slows innovation rather than accelerates it.

Originally Posted by Torgus

It is going to cost a lot more than 2k per parking space...

If the electric infrastructure cost is similar for your 32 unit condo building to the cost for my 180 parking space condo garage it would exceed $53,000. Just for the electric infrastructure to handle the actual installation of the charging stations. For our condo building the basic infrastructure cost before a single charger is installed exceeds $300,000.

[2heeldrive]

Not sure I would want to live above a parking garage full of charging EV's.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by Nahlem

Then this is good news if we can see massive dropping prices on EVs from now on the more will start to look at them as viable options when it comes to the 2nd market.

Auto makers needs to lower the prices of their Evs for more people to want to buy them.

If we get the prices down to a "normal" level of buyers, we will probably see a second explosion of evs being sold but on the 2nd market.

By 2030s when solid state is in place or mixed chemistry batteries like the one recently tested in the IX reaching 900 kms on WLTP cycle. We will probably reach a point where a lot of people buying their first cars from the 2nd market will look at EVs as an option and not opting out because of the prices.

That will be the change that is good for this market. Gas stations today will want to add EV charging to their infrastructures to keep customers coming back but probably a name change will be in place, sense Gas/Charing will be available as options there.

Automakers wont lower their prices, they'll reduce production allocations to EV's, which has already happened. Nobody wants these things and there is alot more to it than just price.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by 2heeldrive

Not sure I would want to live above a parking garage full of charging EV's.

Wait until we get entire malls and condos burning down from thermal runaway of a garage full of these things.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by ppointer

Sometimes when I am considering investment opportunities, I ask my millennial daughters about their use or perception of a product. So, they look at Tesla as an aspirational product, which is a bullish sign for me. The problem, though, is a limited market, as only one of them is in a position to be able to purchase even a $30k car of any type. Also, I would find it impossible for an EV to be my only vehicle, considering the range and the availability of chargers. But I do not know the solution of long term ownership while living in an apartment, as few apartment complexes in my area have significant (if any) EV chargers.

Recently, the HOA of one my condos started to consider possible solutions to EV ownership for the 32-unit building. We have an underground garage with assigned parking. Sure, we could do an assessment to pay for the runs of 240v electric to each owner's spots, for perhaps $2k each. Then, we need to consider fire protection, since EV spontaneous combustion is a thing and our sprinkler system is not robust enough to deal with an EV fire.

I would prefer to see limited government involvement here. Notice I didn't say no government involvement, since I am uncertain the free market would have implemented passive restraint systems and airbags on their own, as well as other worthwhile safety upgrades. But these states that have considered abolishing the sale of ICE vehicles in the near future? No, that slows innovation rather than accelerates it.

There isn't a sprinkler system in the world that's robust enough for put out a garage full of EVs on fire. It'll just be full thermal runaway that will burn for days and will probably do a ton of damage to the structure of the condo. Good luck with that.

[BMthusiast]

Alright on to hydrogen!

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by 2heeldrive

Not sure I would want to live above a parking garage full of charging EV's.

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Wait until we get entire malls and condos burning down from thermal runaway of a garage full of these things.

I have been having this thought more and more lately!! Right now my two level condo garage has one Tesla that has a charging station. (That’s how we found out about the infrastructure cost if we wanted to add additional charging stations.) And the parking space right next to mine is now occupied by a Tesla. (There is no charging station for that car and there won’t be anytime soon.) There are about 40 parking spaces in my first level garage and about 140 spaces in the second level garage and there are eight floors of condos above the two parking garages. A total of 160 condos.

[LogicalApex]

Demand is cooling as car prices are through the roof and lending costs are through the roof. That means lease costs are up and etc etc.

Harder to say how much of the cooling off is limited to “we’ve sold every EV to everyone who wants one” and not the impact of the macroeconomic forces I mentioned earlier.

For BMW, for instance, I’d be interested in a i5 from my 530e I purchased in late 2019. But that’s a hard sell at close to $90K for an AWD version. I’m holding onto my 530e for another 4 years, at least, as a result. I’m sure I’m not the only one.

[NickyC]

Choice is great, if manufacturers can get EVs to the people who want them at an agreed upon price that’s fantastic. Likewise for ICE.

What we don’t need are the corrupt degenerates in government telling us what we can buy with the money we have leftover after being taxed into oblivion.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

If the electric infrastructure cost is similar for your 32 unit condo building to the cost for my 180 parking space condo garage it would exceed $53,000. Just for the electric infrastructure to handle the actual installation of the charging stations. For our condo building the basic infrastructure cost before a single charger is installed exceeds $300,000.

Exactly, if they even would be able to install 32 chargers. The costs could be staggering to say the least. You have to upgrade the electrical infrastructure 1st, this means transformer(s) and line upgrade(s) and/or substation upgrades etc. Even if you just go with level 2 chargers.

After you get past the upgrades then comes piping conduit down to each charger. The town's fire inspector may end up getting involved, they do with stationery storage that is for sure.

Aside from all the electrical stuff you likely need ballards installed to protect the equipment. These charging stations and ballards take up space, look at the picture below do you have 6' clear in front of your parking space? I guarantee there is not space for 32 chargers or even 16 if you share or get doubles, and still have 32 parking spaces.



Finally after all the money is spent, the value of your condo will not have increased nearly as much as the money you will spend.

EVs are not for everyone and where they should work best, in major cities, there is no charging architecture and never will be.


Edit: Also insurance will get involved most likely. Just a fucking PITA. Not the place to install EV charging is what it comes down to. New construction with plenty of space? Sure, go for it. Retrofitting a small underground parking lot is a nightmare and horrifically expensive because of what you will have to upgrade as you are not going it up front with the new contructionw hen you already will be upgrading the lines/transformers for the new building.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by 2heeldrive

Not sure I would want to live above a parking garage full of charging EV's.

That would be a definite, HELL NO!

[allinon72]

Can we just take a second and unpack exactly what has happened in the last 5 years....gubments and media 'round the world basically gave a directive to automakers to produce EVs and to shift their entire product mix to electric. Nearly every global auto manufacturer went along with this and decided unilaterally, in lockstep, that this was the direction the market was going, WITHOUT any customer data that suggested the demand was there, AT ALL. They didn't just dip their toes in the market to make sure there was a business case, they canceled nearly everything associated with not only ICE engines, but even hybrids in some cases.

Now here we are, a few years in, and everyone is surprised when the masses aren't buying. Why would they? It turns out, global corporations are just as susceptible to being duped as your ordinary citizen watching the evening news.

[NickyC]

There’s been a lot of mass “duping” since early 2020. If one hasn’t learned to question everything at this point, not sure what to say.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by NickyC

There’s been a lot of mass “duping” since early 2020. If one hasn’t learned to question everything at this point, not sure what to say.

When I was in college just about every VW Beetle had a "Question Authority" bumper sticker on it. Where did we go wrong?

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

When I was in college just about every VW Beetle had a "Question Authority" bumper sticker on it. Where did we go wrong?

No kidding!

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by BMthusiast

Alright on to hydrogen!

Little cold fusion reactors?

Cold Fusion Cars Are Coming, But Not For a Long Time
If wishing could make things true, we’d all have our homes heated by low energy nuclear reactors. Likewise, our cars would come from the factory with a mini-reactor that would run for three or four years, at which point it would need to be replaced or recharged. It’s the Jetsons vision of the future but people are still toiling to find a path to this vision. The promise of a low-cost, safe, renewable energy source still intrigues researchers around the world.
https://innotechtoday.com/cold-fusion-cars/

[omasou]

Extreme Acceleration Is the New Traffic Safety Frontier
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...e-acceleration

US official warns of risks posed by heavy electric vehicles
https://apnews.com/article/technolog...430a02cc939f6b