[desmo907]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

There is no specifics on that but if you have a purchase agreement and give them a non-refundable deposit that will likely satisfy the requirement. You can make it part of the contract that your vehicle must have all options ordered if that is a concern. As long as you and your dealer agree on the specifics that would be doable.

Ok that's what I thought. Do you think a deposit is required? Dealer said they may not require from me.

Also how does the Feds know anything? I see on the IRS Form 8936 they ask the car information (VIN, etc.) but do you need to send in the contract also? How do they know when it is delivered, etc.?

[RabbitCaesar]

The problem is that even dealer don't know what exact "binding contract" is needed here. Today my dealer told me it can't be signed until the vehicle arrived at dealership.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by desmo907

Ok that's what I thought. Do you think a deposit is required? Dealer said they may not require from me.

Also how does the Feds know anything? I see on the IRS Form 8936 they ask the car information (VIN, etc.) but do you need to send in the contract also? How do they know when it is delivered, etc.?

I would say yes, a non-refundable deposit is required in order for it to be considered binding. If you don't give a deposit you can just walk away.

I wouldn't think you need to send in the contract. That form will likely be replaced/altered for the new tax credit. The delivery date will be on your documents and they would expect you to report it accurately.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by RabbitCaesar

The problem is that even dealer don't know what exact "binding contract" is needed here. Today my dealer told me it can't be signed until the vehicle arrived at dealership.

Your dealer was confusing the delivery documents with the order documents. The form they take is not important, it is what they represent that is. Many dealers fill out a purchase agreement but even just the vehicle inquiry signed by both with a non-refundable deposit should suffice.

[TurtleBoy]

Keep in mind that for those ordering within the next few days there is almost a zero chance that they won't be getting the credit. It would be very highly unlikely that the Secretary would issue guidance within the next month or tow.

[Josh_H]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Keep in mind that for those ordering within the next few days there is almost a zero chance that they won't be getting the credit. It would be very highly unlikely that the Secretary would issue guidance within the next month or tow.

So as along as there is no new guidance from the secretary rules are the same for 2022?

[Tall Paul]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Keep in mind that for those ordering within the next few days there is almost a zero chance that they won't be getting the credit.

From your mouth, to the Secretary’s ears

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Josh_H

So as along as there is no new guidance from the secretary rules are the same for 2022?

In regards to the battery requirements, yes. The only change air enactment, and it doesn't effect the 45e, is that the vehicle must be assembled in NA.

[desmo907]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Keep in mind that for those ordering within the next few days there is almost a zero chance that they won't be getting the credit. It would be very highly unlikely that the Secretary would issue guidance within the next month or tow.

Talked to dealer again. Apparently there is NO contract until the car is delivered (that could be several months). So is this the "binding contract" you refer? If so, it could possibly be impacted by new rules.

Dealer says he just places an order... then in few weeks we get a VIN and estimated delivery date.

Thanks!

[desmo907]

Originally Posted by RabbitCaesar

The problem is that even dealer don't know what exact "binding contract" is needed here. Today my dealer told me it can't be signed until the vehicle arrived at dealership.

My dealer just told me the same thing.. so I am confused by other threads about ordering now (though delivery later) and still should be able to get the full tax credit ):

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by desmo907

Talked to dealer again. Apparently there is NO contract until the car is delivered (that could be several months). So is this the "binding contract" you refer? If so, it could possibly be impacted by new rules.

Dealer says he just places an order... then in few weeks we get a VIN and estimated delivery date.

Thanks!

No, that is not what I was referring to, that would be for the delivery/sale. The binding contract is wording in the new legislation. If you get a sales agreement/purchase order/bill of sale along with a non-refundable deposit that should do it. For instance, my dealer gives a purchase agreement and requires a $2,500 non-refundable deposit. That should satisfy the requirements for a binding contract. You can probably even just get the Vehicle Inquiry for the order and the deposit. Some dealers may not want to be bothered with doing anything.

[desmo907]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

No, that is not what I was referring to, that would be for the delivery/sale. The binding contract is wording in the new legislation. If you get a sales agreement/purchase order/bill of sale along with a non-refundable deposit that should do it. For instance, my dealer gives a purchase agreement and requires a $2,500 non-refundable deposit. That should satisfy the requirements for a binding contract. You can probably even just get the Vehicle Inquiry for the order and the deposit. Some dealers may not want to be bothered with doing anything.

Thanks... that sort of makes sense.... but always leery when the Gov is involved especially with 750 page documents

[desmo907]

Just to beat this more...referring to the "transition rule" (that could impact this year), would that include the personal income cap and price cap (for the car)?

Also does the price cap ($80k) include (or exclude) the dealer fee, registration, and state taxes?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by desmo907

Just to beat this more...referring to the "transition rule" (that could impact this year), would that include the personal income cap and price cap (for the car)?

Also does the price cap ($80k) include (or exclude) the dealer fee, registration, and state taxes?

Here is the Transition rule:

TRANSITION RULE.—Solely for purposes of the application of section 30D of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, in the case of a taxpayer that— (1) after December 31, 2021, and before the date of enactment of this Act, purchased, or entered into a written binding contract to purchase, a new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in section 30D(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as in effect on the day before the date of enactment of this Act), and (2) placed such vehicle in service on or after the date of enactment of this Act, such taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form and manner, as the Secretary of the Treasury, or the Secretary’s delegate, may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of this Act.

The price cap is based on MSRP.

[quad_drive]

There are a lot of unknown and educated speculations at this point.
Ultimately, the bill is not signed by the president yet. That's one date.

After the bill is signed, the Treasury dept will need to provide guidance on to how and when the new EV/PHEV credit rules will take effect. That's a second date, which is the more important one for us here on the 45e potential owners.

For sanity sake, I hope the IRS will enact the new rules starting 1/1/23, not retrofit to when the bill was signed by the president.
And then, there is this transition rule, which muddy the waters on order placed vs vehicle delivery/in service date to use the current Tax Credit rules.

With all that said, the safest are the owners that have already taken delivery of their 45e before the bill is signed, they are already on the boat.

If you are still thinking to order one now, and promised a delivery date by 12/31/22. That boat might still be there for you, pending that second date from the Treasury. So, it's a little bit of a gamble, but lowish risk.

That transition rules part will properly be part of the IRS guidance, when it gets released. So, pray for IRS to work at usual government speed, the later they release the guidance, the higher likelihood to get on that boat.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by quad_drive

There are a lot of unknown and educated speculations at this point.
Ultimately, the bill is not signed by the president yet. That's one date.

After the bill is signed, the Treasury dept will need to provide guidance on to how and when the new EV/PHEV credit rules will take effect. That's a second date, which is the more important one for us here on the 45e potential owners.

For sanity sake, I hope the IRS will enact the new rules starting 1/1/23, not retrofit to when the bill was signed by the president.
And then, there is this transition rule, which muddy the waters on order placed vs vehicle delivery/in service date to use the current Tax Credit rules.

With all that said, the safest are the owners that have already taken delivery of their 45e before the bill is signed, they are already on the boat.

If you are still thinking to order one now, and promised a delivery date by 12/31/22. That boat might still be there for you, pending that second date from the Treasury. So, it's a little bit of a gamble, but lowish risk.

That transition rules part will properly be part of the IRS guidance, when it gets released. So, pray for IRS to work at usual government speed, the later they release the guidance, the higher likelihood to get on that boat.

I think you are misunderstanding a few things. The IRS is not going to be issuing guidance concerning the when the credit is taking place, that is written into the legislation. The guidance that is needed is regarding the battery requirements. Once that guidance is issued then the battery requirements become effective.

You may see a bulletin on the Transition but it will not be part of the guidance that is required.

[quad_drive]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I think you are misunderstanding a few things. The IRS is not going to be issuing guidance concerning the when the credit is taking place, that is written into the legislation. The guidance that is needed is regarding the battery requirements. Once that guidance is issued then the battery requirements become effective.

You may see a bulletin on the Transition but it will not be part of the guidance that is required.

Ah.. Okay..

Does the the legislation as it stands says when the the new EV Credit rule will take place? 1/1/23 or the day the bill is signed?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by quad_drive

Ah.. Okay..

Does the the legislation as it stands says when the the new EV Credit rule will take place? 1/1/23 or the day the bill is signed?

All of the above and some more.

Date of enactment: the requirement that the vehicles be built in NA becomes effective the next day.

The day after the Secretary issues the guidance (must be by 12/31/22): the battery requirements become effective

January 1, 2023: The MSRP and Income limitations, and the rest of the legislation, become effective.

[SOAIAAA81]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

All of the above and some more.

Date of enactment: the requirement that the vehicles be built in NA becomes effective.

The day after the Secretary issues the guidance (must be by 12/31/22): the battery requirements become effective

January 1, 2023: The MSRP and Income limitations, and the rest of the legislation, become effective.

Thanks for the summary! If I’m understanding correctly, one needs to take delivery of the vehicle before all three dates above to get the credit?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by SOAIAAA81

Thanks for the summary! If I’m understanding correctly, one needs to take delivery of the vehicle before all three dates above to get the credit?

Assuming you are talking about the 45e and ignoring the Transition rule, you would get the full credit if the vehicle is delivered up to the day that the Secretary issues the guidance. After that point it is unknown as to whether the 45e will meet any, all or none of the battery requirements. On top of that, once the income and MSRP limits kick in that may effect your ability to get the credit.

[sbmp21]

Originally Posted by desmo907

I am still unsure if tax credit for the Model Year 2023 delivered this year can be claimed on 2022 tax year. My accountant mentioned if it was added to the "list" it can be, but it is NOT yet on the list The IRS requires you enter the year and VIN so they check.

What happens if it is NOT on the list ):

When do vehicles typically get added to the government website that shows the rebate amount?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by sbmp21

When do vehicles typically get added to the government website that shows the rebate amount?

Not sure there is a typical timeframe. I would say shortly after the MY starts but that could be a month or so. This year they may not continue to update it given the changes to the credit since things will be changing shortly.