[desmo907]

Just placed an order today. Dealer even gave me a Production # to track..... mid-Oct delivery... Hope no deletes!

[ltoda2nd]

Sorry for not searching the posts, but did they bring back Federal credits for installing EV Charging Equipment? Didn’t it stop at the end of 2021?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by ltoda2nd

Sorry for not searching the posts, but did they bring back Federal credits for installing EV Charging Equipment? Didn’t it stop at the end of 2021?

Not that I have seen but didn’t look for them so could be in there.

[2023X545e]

Hello, I read thru this thread and some on google. I am still confused on the tax credit and here is my situation. I ordered 2022 45e in February for June delivery and then it got postponed to July and then BMW automatically changed the model year to 2023 and then they changed the production date to last week of August. I gave a deposit of 1k when I ordered the vehicle in Feb 2022, there was no contract, the dealer just sent a plain 1 page form and I filled it with my CC information (it was not a contract), the price of the vehicle is $80,450 before taxes. I am now reading about the new legislation with MSRP limit and then the income limit. My questions now and if somebody can shed some light on it, that would be of great help. If I take the vehicle delivery in the next 2 to 4 weeks, would I still be eligible for the full tax rebate of 7500? should I do something to get the vehicle price below 80k? Is the MSRP limit with tax, title, and other accessories or is it the vehicle price out the door be < 80k? The dealer is of absolute no help and told me to contact the CPA. Also the 2023 X5 45e isn't there on the list yet. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

Thankyou all on this thread for sharing the valuable info.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by 2023X545e

Hello, I read thru this thread and some on google. I am still confused on the tax credit and here is my situation. I ordered 2022 45e in February for June delivery and then it got postponed to July and then BMW automatically changed the model year to 2023 and then they changed the production date to last week of August. I gave a deposit of 1k when I ordered the vehicle in Feb 2022, there was no contract, the dealer just sent a plain 1 page form and I filled it with my CC information (it was not a contract), the price of the vehicle is $80,450 before taxes. I am now reading about the new legislation with MSRP limit and then the income limit. My questions now and if somebody can shed some light on it, that would be of great help. If I take the vehicle delivery in the next 2 to 4 weeks, would I still be eligible for the full tax rebate of 7500? should I do something to get the vehicle price below 80k? Is the MSRP limit with tax, title, and other accessories or is it the vehicle price out the door be < 80k? The dealer is of absolute no help and told me to contact the CPA. Also the 2023 X5 45e isn't there on the list yet. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

Thankyou all on this thread for sharing the valuable info.

If you take delivery within the next month you should be fine. If you want to ensure you get it no matter when it is delivered you want to have something that you consider to be a binding contract. If it isn't already, ask your dealer to make $100 or so of you deposit non-refundable. That along with your Vehicle Inquiry and other document will likely satisfy the requirements for the Transition rule.

The 45e will be qualified for the full $7,500 credit until either the Secretary issues the battery guidelines (assuming the 45e will not meet them) or January 1st whichever one comes sooner. The deadline for the guidance is 12/31/2022 but it could be issued at any time but most believe it will be around the end of the year.

[El Frank]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

If you take delivery within the next month you should be fine. If you want to ensure you get it no matter when it is delivered you want to have something that you consider to be a binding contract. If it isn't already, ask your dealer to make $100 or so of you deposit non-refundable. That along with your Vehicle Inquiry and other document will likely satisfy the requirements for the Transition rule.

The 45e will be qualified for the full $7,500 credit until either the Secretary issues the battery guidelines (assuming the 45e will not meet them) or January 1st whichever one comes sooner. The deadline for the guidance is 12/31/2022 but it could be issued at any time but most believe it will be around the end of the year.

Big Shout-Out to TurtleBoy!
I just became a member but have peruse through these pages for years. I appreciate your input on most if not all the posts that I have read from you. Thank you for what you do to support this forum. I picked up my 23' X5 45e yesterday with mixed emotions, mostly anxiety about the tax ordeal. My goal was to beat Biden or the Secretary to the signature table. There were a few things that I wanted to yet negotiate but with all the things that are happening I had to eat a few of them (funny story... As I was signing the paperwork my wife was outside and noticed there was someone literally trying to open and peeking into the 45E for 15 minutes - all that to say, they had a willing buyer if I only look or said anything about negotiation)

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by El Frank

Big Shout-Out to TurtleBoy!
I just became a member but have peruse through these pages for years. I appreciate your input on most if not all the posts that I have read from you. Thank you for what you do to support this forum. I picked up my 23' X5 45e yesterday with mixed emotions, mostly anxiety about the tax ordeal. My goal was to beat Biden or the Secretary to the signature table. There were a few things that I wanted to yet negotiate but with all the things that are happening I had to eat a few of them (funny story... As I was signing the paperwork my wife was outside and noticed there was someone literally trying to open and peeking into the 45E for 15 minutes - all that to say, they had a willing buyer if I only look or said anything about negotiation)

Thanks, glad I could help. Congratulations on your new 45e and the tax credit you will be getting. Good luck, enjoy and be safe.

[Redroc86]

A bit more praise for TurtleBoy as well! I had been reading up for a few months before ordering my 45e on 7/19. TurtleBoy's posts and information helped me tremendously. I've been following this thread pretty much daily. I'm at the point where I have a production number, and my build is scheduled for the week of 9/12. My concern is the income and MSRP threshold in the new bill. It's still not clear to me at least whether that would enact upon signing the bill or on 1/1/23. I'm going to head over today to meet with my CA and apply $100 of my downpayment to a binding agreement. My only concern with doing so is the chance that options are deleted for the 45e that are high on my preference list. It has been nice knowing I had the option to decline delivery if options or features are deleted. I don't care about risking $100 to ensure the tax credit, but the downside is being bound to purchase the vehicle even if it isn't built as configured.

I read through the agreement Rivian sent to customers that have a pending order (found it online). Rivian is a pretty good proxy in this case, I think. It's built in the US and will eclipse the $80K MSRP threshold. The wording of their agreement requires the $100 non refundable deposit for a binding agreement, but the terms read that there is an obligation to purchase, regardless of option changes, price fluctuations etc. I will be heading over to the dealership this afternoon, and I will certainly share anything useful I learn with the group.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Redroc86

A bit more praise for TurtleBoy as well! I had been reading up for a few months before ordering my 45e on 7/19. TurtleBoy's posts and information helped me tremendously. I've been following this thread pretty much daily. I'm at the point where I have a production number, and my build is scheduled for the week of 9/12. My concern is the income and MSRP threshold in the new bill. It's still not clear to me at least whether that would enact upon signing the bill or on 1/1/23. I'm going to head over today to meet with my CA and apply $100 of my downpayment to a binding agreement. My only concern with doing so is the chance that options are deleted for the 45e that are high on my preference list. It has been nice knowing I had the option to decline delivery if options or features are deleted. I don't care about risking $100 to ensure the tax credit, but the downside is being bound to purchase the vehicle even if it isn't built as configured.

None needed but thank you. The MSRP and income limits go into effect for vehicles delivered after 12/31/22 so you should be fine there. The only provision that goes into effect upon enactment is the requirement for final assembly in NA. The battery requirements may come into play earlier depending on when the guidance is issued.

Have them put a not on your agreement that that deposit is non-refundable as long as the vehicle contains all features and options as ordered.

Good luck.

[TurtleBoy]

A letter the BMWNA CEO sent to all dealers. Hopefully it helps anyone trying to get their dealer to give them a binding contract.

Here is a message sent from the CEO of BMW North America to US BMW dealers:

We would like to provide you with an update on the Inflation Reduction Act that will result in an immediate impact on our business once signed by President Biden. In the following, we will provide guidance on how this affects the eligibility of our product portfolio and the implications when answering customer questions.

On Friday, August 12, the United States House of Representatives followed the U.S. Senate’s lead and voted to pass the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) of 2022 which is expected to be signed into law by President Biden this week. The new program will go into effect upon its signing and run through December 31, 2032.

A number of factors will determine whether a vehicle/customer is eligible to receive the tax credit contained in the IRA. Firstly, the “final assembly” of the vehicle must occur “within North America,” i.e., the U.S., Mexico, or Canada. In addition, new income and MSRP caps will be implemented immediately. The Average Gross Income (AGI) caps will be $150,000 for single filing, $225,000 for head-of-household and $300,000 for joint filing. MSRP caps for pickup trucks, SUVs, and vans will be $80,000, while all other vehicles will be $55,000. And also, the battery size must be greater than 7 kWh, which will impact the PHEV business.

These changes mean that our vehicles, which currently qualify for up to a $7,500 federal tax credit today, will no longer qualify as soon as the President signs this legislation. Additionally, a number of customers will not qualify, as their income exceeds the AGI caps.

We recognize that there are questions regarding customers who have reserved an EV and not yet taken delivery. The IRA includes a transition rule to address this group. It states that customers who enter into a “written binding contract to purchase” a qualified electric vehicle with their dealer prior to President Biden signing the IRA into law, would still have the ability to claim the credit – even if they take delivery of the vehicle after the signing of the law. This also means that customers with non-binding vehicle orders would lose their ability to claim the EV tax credit. We are working to understand the details of what constitutes a “written binding contract to purchase” and what is required to ensure that customers can qualify.

You will have noted that the volume cap of 200k units per manufacturer that applies under the current set of rules will be eliminated with the new criteria upon signature of the Bill.

Beyond the rules stated above, supply chain criteria relating to critical minerals and battery production will increasingly apply over the coming years and add further hurdles in qualifying for the EV credit.

We understand that you may have received inquiries from customers looking to ensure their ability to claim the credit on current vehicle orders. We appreciate all that you are doing to support customers in understanding the changes and in their decision-making. As the President is expected to sign the IRA into law early this week, we encourage you to work with your customers to convert vehicle orders into binding sales as quickly as possible.

This issue has moved through Congress at an unprecedented pace, and we can expect further detailing of the rules going forwards. We will provide regular updates on progress and implications for our mutual business. We appreciate your patience as we have worked to understand the implications of the Act and kindly ask that you remain patient as we work through the steps that lie ahead – in Washington D.C. and across the nation – in the full implementation of the Bill.

Sebastian Mackensen
President & CEO
BMW NA

[TurtleBoy]

Just so there is no confusion, it should be noted that he made a mistake in the memo concerning when the MSRP and Income limits go into effect. They will not be implemented immediately as stated in the memo but rather for vehicles delivered after 12/31/22 not subject to the Transition rule.

[Celos]

I've tried to follow all of this and I'm still a bit confused. I am in California and my 45e is expected to be at the dealership next week. I've asked my CA if there's anything we should do relative to the (refundable) deposit I have down with them.

If I'm reading the guidance correctly, I should be OK on the vehicle price and my income (that's all 2023 stuff) but not OK on the battery assembly location without something that constitutes a binding order.

It would be unfortunate, to say the least, if after all of the twists and turns on the road to getting this car I missed a deadline by a few days. It is still the right vehicle for me, $7500 or no, but that's a non-trivial amount of money even in the rarefied air of being able to afford a vehicle like this in the first place.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Celos

I've tried to follow all of this and I'm still a bit confused. I am in California and my 45e is expected to be at the dealership next week. I've asked my CA if there's anything we should do relative to the (refundable) deposit I have down with them.

If I'm reading the guidance correctly, I should be OK on the vehicle price and my income (that's all 2023 stuff) but not OK on the battery assembly location without something that constitutes a binding order.

It would be unfortunate, to say the least, if after all of the twists and turns on the road to getting this car I missed a deadline by a few days. It is still the right vehicle for me, $7500 or no, but that's a non-trivial amount of money even in the rarefied air of being able to afford a vehicle like this in the first place.

You will be fine. The only part of the new credit that goes into effect tomorrow is the one portion dealing with the final assembly. The battery requirements do not go into effect until the day after the Secretary issues the guidance. The deadline for that is 12/31/22 but it could happen at anytime before that but likely not too far ahead of the deadline.

[Celos]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

You will be fine. The only part of the new credit that goes into effect tomorrow is the one portion dealing with the final assembly.

Groovy, I surely hope so.

(Edit to say that I don't understand why the BMW CEO is saying "our vehicles, which currently qualify" won't qualify under the final assembly rules. I can see other BMW vehicles (530e, for example) being disqualified, but shouldn't the 45e remain eligible on that criteria given it is built in South Carolina?)

[P1]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

A letter the BMWNA CEO sent to all dealers. Hopefully it helps anyone trying to get their dealer to give them a binding contract.

Here is a message sent from the CEO of BMW North America to US BMW dealers:

We would like to provide you with an update on the Inflation Reduction Act that will result in an immediate impact on our business once signed by President Biden. In the following, we will provide guidance on how this affects the eligibility of our product portfolio and the implications when answering customer questions.

On Friday, August 12, the United States House of Representatives followed the U.S. Senate’s lead and voted to pass the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) of 2022 which is expected to be signed into law by President Biden this week. The new program will go into effect upon its signing and run through December 31, 2032.

A number of factors will determine whether a vehicle/customer is eligible to receive the tax credit contained in the IRA. Firstly, the “final assembly” of the vehicle must occur “within North America,” i.e., the U.S., Mexico, or Canada. In addition, new income and MSRP caps will be implemented immediately. The Average Gross Income (AGI) caps will be $150,000 for single filing, $225,000 for head-of-household and $300,000 for joint filing. MSRP caps for pickup trucks, SUVs, and vans will be $80,000, while all other vehicles will be $55,000. And also, the battery size must be greater than 7 kWh, which will impact the PHEV business.

These changes mean that our vehicles, which currently qualify for up to a $7,500 federal tax credit today, will no longer qualify as soon as the President signs this legislation. Additionally, a number of customers will not qualify, as their income exceeds the AGI caps.

We recognize that there are questions regarding customers who have reserved an EV and not yet taken delivery. The IRA includes a transition rule to address this group. It states that customers who enter into a “written binding contract to purchase” a qualified electric vehicle with their dealer prior to President Biden signing the IRA into law, would still have the ability to claim the credit – even if they take delivery of the vehicle after the signing of the law. This also means that customers with non-binding vehicle orders would lose their ability to claim the EV tax credit. We are working to understand the details of what constitutes a “written binding contract to purchase” and what is required to ensure that customers can qualify.

You will have noted that the volume cap of 200k units per manufacturer that applies under the current set of rules will be eliminated with the new criteria upon signature of the Bill.

Beyond the rules stated above, supply chain criteria relating to critical minerals and battery production will increasingly apply over the coming years and add further hurdles in qualifying for the EV credit.

We understand that you may have received inquiries from customers looking to ensure their ability to claim the credit on current vehicle orders. We appreciate all that you are doing to support customers in understanding the changes and in their decision-making. As the President is expected to sign the IRA into law early this week, we encourage you to work with your customers to convert vehicle orders into binding sales as quickly as possible.

This issue has moved through Congress at an unprecedented pace, and we can expect further detailing of the rules going forwards. We will provide regular updates on progress and implications for our mutual business. We appreciate your patience as we have worked to understand the implications of the Act and kindly ask that you remain patient as we work through the steps that lie ahead – in Washington D.C. and across the nation – in the full implementation of the Bill.

Sebastian Mackensen
President & CEO
BMW NA

It was fun while it lasted. I can only assume that any 45e ordered after Biden signs won't receive the $7,500 tax credit.

[El Frank]

Originally Posted by Redroc86

A bit more praise for TurtleBoy as well! I had been reading up for a few months before ordering my 45e on 7/19. TurtleBoy's posts and information helped me tremendously. I've been following this thread pretty much daily. I'm at the point where I have a production number, and my build is scheduled for the week of 9/12. My concern is the income and MSRP threshold in the new bill. It's still not clear to me at least whether that would enact upon signing the bill or on 1/1/23. I'm going to head over today to meet with my CA and apply $100 of my downpayment to a binding agreement. My only concern with doing so is the chance that options are deleted for the 45e that are high on my preference list. It has been nice knowing I had the option to decline delivery if options or features are deleted. I don't care about risking $100 to ensure the tax credit, but the downside is being bound to purchase the vehicle even if it isn't built as configured.

I read through the agreement Rivian sent to customers that have a pending order (found it online). Rivian is a pretty good proxy in this case, I think. It's built in the US and will eclipse the $80K MSRP threshold. The wording of their agreement requires the $100 non refundable deposit for a binding agreement, but the terms read that there is an obligation to purchase, regardless of option changes, price fluctuations etc. I will be heading over to the dealership this afternoon, and I will certainly share anything useful I learn with the group.

I hate to speak out of my element because my timeline seem to have gone faster than most I have read about.
Production number and Vin assigned mid-July. Ready at the factory first week of August. All that to say, I ordered a pretty loaded 45e (80k plus) and nothing was dropped from the build. I was told by my CA that most of the shortages on MY22 was because they were stocking the lines for MY23 (take it with a grain of salt). My original build MY 22 kept losing options, but when MY 23 became available, all options were available. I told them to nix the MY 22 for MY 23 (I really wanted the MY 22 to avoid tax issues but I gambled with the MY 23 - I guess not completely off the hook with the tax legislation plus MY 23 is not listed yet on the tax credit site).

[El Frank]

Originally Posted by P1

It was fun while it lasted. I can only assume that any 45e ordered after Biden signs won't receive the $7,500 tax credit.

…lol, interesting because I was planning for a MY 24 when the LCI becomes available and take advantage of the tax credit again and hopefully better discount by then. Didn’t count that I now have to put a few prayers for my 23 to go through!

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by P1

It was fun while it lasted. I can only assume that any 45e ordered after Biden signs won't receive the $7,500 tax credit.

No, that is not correct. Nothing will change until the guidance on the battery requirements are issued.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Celos

Groovy, I surely hope so.

(Edit to say that I don't understand why the BMW CEO is saying "our vehicles, which currently qualify" won't qualify under the final assembly rules. I can see other BMW vehicles (530e, for example) being disqualified, but shouldn't the 45e remain eligible on that criteria given it is built in South Carolina?)

The memo is filled with errors. He is likely very clumsily referring to what will happen when all the provisions are active.

[P1]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

The memo is filled with errors. He is likely very clumsily referring to what will happen when all the provisions are active.

Appreciate that, as the bold piece I highlighted in the memo you shared is pretty clear cut:

"our vehicles will no longer qualify as soon as President Biden signs this legislation."

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by P1

Appreciate that, as the bold piece I highlighted in the memo you shared is pretty clear cut:

"our vehicles will no longer qualify as soon as President Biden signs this legislation."

Yes, and he is very wrong about that. That is not even in question.

[Di3s3l_Power]

CEO memo is more general, he / BMW USA is not going into detailed timeline and if or could