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      12-01-2019, 02:19 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Slap on the wrist for Ferrari, for what was clearly a breach of the fuel regulations.

I agree with Horner, it warranted a disqualification.
According Binotto :

“I don’t think there is very much to explain. There has been a discrepancy between measurements. We are simply waiting for a decision and we don’t know much.”

“We believe that our measurements are all correct,” he added. “So there is one measurement which is not correct.”

The FIA introduced random checks of car’s pre-race fuel weight at the beginning of the season to ensure they comply with the maximum limit of 110kg of fuel per race. Teams have to declare how much fuel they have put in their cars. When Leclerc’s car was checked in Abu Dhabi, it was found to contain almost 4.88kg more than the declaration.

Binotto said his team’s cars have had their fuel weights checked on many previous occasions with no problems. “I think this year we have been checked at least 10 times,” he said. “It’s not the first time, we’ve always been OK and today we got a discrepancy.”

Well....I wonder where the Jet-Mode was ?
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      12-01-2019, 02:40 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Slap on the wrist for Ferrari, for what was clearly a breach of the fuel regulations.

I agree with Horner, it warranted a disqualification.
A disqualification probably is a last resort for stewards, in this case Lecs 3rd place was no threat to Max's 3rd place overall in the championship as Max finished 2nd.If Max would have fell back or broken down etc and Lec would have taken his 3rd position in the championship because of that then disqualification should be implemented. That's my reasoning.
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      12-01-2019, 02:44 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
According Binotto :

“I don’t think there is very much to explain. There has been a discrepancy between measurements. We are simply waiting for a decision and we don’t know much.”

“We believe that our measurements are all correct,” he added. “So there is one measurement which is not correct.”

The FIA introduced random checks of car’s pre-race fuel weight at the beginning of the season to ensure they comply with the maximum limit of 110kg of fuel per race. Teams have to declare how much fuel they have put in their cars. When Leclerc’s car was checked in Abu Dhabi, it was found to contain almost 4.88kg more than the declaration.

Binotto said his team’s cars have had their fuel weights checked on many previous occasions with no problems. “I think this year we have been checked at least 10 times,” he said. “It’s not the first time, we’ve always been OK and today we got a discrepancy.”

Well....I wonder where the Jet-Mode was ?
Jet-mode? Merc had it..as you said it's a silver car
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      12-01-2019, 02:58 PM   #92
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I watched that whole race and only on the last couple of laps, did I realise that the track is called Yas Marina and that all those blue zones are painted the same colour as my car...
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      12-01-2019, 04:13 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Jet-mode? Merc had it..as you said it's a silver car
I was talking about the *disappearance* of the Ferrari Jet-Mode .I looked back at Monza and Spa ...
Today the Mercs flew in their Silver-Mode . Strange that the Mercs didn't had that race pace in Brazil.
Altitude ?

No way ...
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      12-01-2019, 04:15 PM   #94
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Why not? Altitude is a known factor for any engine
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      12-01-2019, 04:22 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Fender150 View Post
Why not? Altitude is a known factor for any engine
Why in particular the Merc say compared to Ferrari and RB, it can't be just the split turbo design.
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      12-01-2019, 04:30 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
I was talking about the *disappearance* of the Ferrari Jet-Mode .I looked back at Monza and Spa ...
Today the Mercs flew in their Silver-Mode . Strange that the Mercs didn't had that race pace in Brazil.
Altitude ?

No way ...
That was it..Ferrari 'lost' their jet mode and at the end when it doesn't matter to them Merc has,as you say their sudden silver-mode back
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      12-01-2019, 04:39 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fender150 View Post
Why not? Altitude is a known factor for any engine
MAX won also in Germany and Austria . Don't think there's high altitude .
In Mexico and Brazil is high altitude .
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      12-01-2019, 04:44 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
That was it..Ferrari 'lost' their jet mode and at the end when it doesn't matter to them Merc has,as you say their sudden silver-mode back
Indeed my friend . The ups and downs of the HP and the race pace. I don't get it ...
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      12-01-2019, 04:51 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Indeed my friend . The ups and downs of the HP and the race pace. I don't get it ...
Merc had a design flaw in cooling for Austria and for Germany, Ham had pole. He just fucked up.
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      12-01-2019, 04:57 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Indeed my friend . The ups and downs of the HP and the race pace. I don't get it ...
Engine saving modes in some races may have a bearing on it and Ham's third engine of the season was on maximum power today. The teams won't tell us.
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      12-01-2019, 05:02 PM   #101
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They may have needed to run hotter/more psi under altitude to maintain their same power output, higher load on the engine, risking failure, guessing.
It seems with that being the last race, they let it rip
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      12-01-2019, 05:06 PM   #102
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Trap speeds

Of course this has a lot to do with aero package, but still interesting, particularly when comparing within the team
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      12-01-2019, 05:21 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
That was it..Ferrari 'lost' their jet mode and at the end when it doesn't matter to them Merc has,as you say their sudden silver-mode back
Its because Mercs have problems with high altitude cooling due to their tight packaging, so they need to turn it down.
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      12-01-2019, 08:11 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
I'll tell you something my friend,p-zero's are also a no no for M5's.One of our forum posters threw away his hardly used parelli's and like most fitted Michelin's latest Pilots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Same here my friend . Michelin's are the best tyres for our cars (road use)
The only ones worth using are the PZero Corsa System. The rest are rubbish, IMHO.
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      12-01-2019, 08:19 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
MAX won also in Germany and Austria . Don't think there's high altitude .
In Mexico and Brazil is high altitude .
The split turbo design has a weakness at high altitude which is exacerbated by their cooling design. It's a fair thing to give up for 2 races vs the other 19 to have a superior design for the season, overall.

The Red Bull Ring is at 2300 meters in altitude. His qualifies as High Altitude. Cheers, my friend-mk
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      12-01-2019, 08:21 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcracin View Post
Merc had a design flaw in cooling for Austria and for Germany, Ham had pole. He just fucked up.
Cooling was the problem in Austria, not Germany. The pit wall called for HAM to pit too soon in Germany for slicks.
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      12-01-2019, 11:18 PM   #107
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and Merc has one of the longest wheelbase design or the longest.. Red Bull has a shorter wheelbase, for agility on slow and mid speed corners.. its one of the biggest factors why they were slow in Brazil.. otherwise as the top speed Merc's were down again..
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      12-02-2019, 07:13 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Slap on the wrist for Ferrari, for what was clearly a breach of the fuel regulations.

I agree with Horner, it warranted a disqualification.
What people dont seem to understand, is that Ferrari breached a technical directive, not a sporting regulation. A technical directive is "a guidance, a procedure to help the FIA communicated with the teams as to how they are supposed to interpret the rules." Not following a technical directive doesn't mean you broke the rules.

Additionally, Ferrari were able to prove that the car had the same amount of fuel left over after the race as they had overfilled before the start. They did this by draining the tank after the race. As such, there was no advantage gained.
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      12-02-2019, 07:20 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
To me , this whole Ferrari situation is suspicious !
FIA has to wake up ! *Why* was there more fuel required in the Ferrari ?
50K Euro's is like peanuts for Ferrari anyway....
I'm guessing you're being a little cheeky there when you ask why was there more fuel required

Just wanted to point out that Ferrari drained the tank after the race and showed that they had the same amount left in the tank as the amount they overfilled with before the race. Effectively, they were carrying dead weight during the race.

Even if they had used the extra fuel, they would have been caught by the FIA mandated fuel flow sensors. So unless they have some sort of setup to circumvent that, then this was truly an miscommunication error that led to this mistake.

I know Ferrari had been accused of having such a system implemented in the past (around Monaco last year IIRC), but an FIA investigation deemed everything was legal. If memory serves correct, the FIA had Ferrari install a second fuel flow sensor to be sure the original one wasnt being bypassed or tricked.
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      12-02-2019, 09:27 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
I'm guessing you're being a little cheeky there when you ask why was there more fuel required

Just wanted to point out that Ferrari drained the tank after the race and showed that they had the same amount left in the tank as the amount they overfilled with before the race. Effectively, they were carrying dead weight during the race.

Even if they had used the extra fuel, they would have been caught by the FIA mandated fuel flow sensors. So unless they have some sort of setup to circumvent that, then this was truly an miscommunication error that led to this mistake.

I know Ferrari had been accused of having such a system implemented in the past (around Monaco last year IIRC), but an FIA investigation deemed everything was legal. If memory serves correct, the FIA had Ferrari install a second fuel flow sensor to be sure the original one wasnt being bypassed or tricked.
Yeah I know . As for the 2020 FIA regulations , all the teams are obliged to have a second fuel flow sensor .
By this the FIA can read and store the data regarding the fuel flow and consumption during the race , ect...
As for this season , I'm pretty sure there was a lot of cheating by several teams..Too much ups and downs regarding the race pace
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