BMW X5
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-25-2020, 04:50 PM   #1
flighttracker44
New Member
5
Rep
12
Posts

Drives: X3
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: RSA

iTrader: (0)

45e charging limitation

I'm not that savvy on electrical stuff but I've understood that the 45e has really low capacity in terms of how fast you can charge.

Someone can probably educate me here but from my understanding the 45e has 3,7 Kw as max input from any source (wallbox, fast-charger). This would translate to approx. 6-7 hours from empty to full.

I don't understand the logic in this move from BMW, the are usually in the frontline of tech. The 45e has one of the most powerful batteries among the current generation of phev's. If there was a fairly fast way to charge that would really extend the electrical usability.

The 3,7 Kw constraint makes even less sense when I read that many other older phev's with smaller batteries have better charging capacity. Like the old Q7 hybrid if I'm not mistaken.

I watched the Harry Metcalfe review and he has pretty much the same comment. There's no real point in connecting the car to a charging station for an hour or two. Only people with overnight charging capacity will see the real benefit.

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1697814

Question is if there is any change that this 3,7 Kw limitation is related to software? Ie, is it possible that capacity might be increased through a software update in the future?

If it's a hardware limitation, will it be possible to mod? Or is it likely that BMW will release a fast charge option/upgrade in the future?
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2020, 12:19 AM   #2
perikifi
Second Lieutenant
perikifi's Avatar
Finland
140
Rep
205
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 45e M Sport
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Finland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flighttracker44 View Post
I'm not that savvy on electrical stuff but I've understood that the 45e has really low capacity in terms of how fast you can charge.

Someone can probably educate me here but from my understanding the 45e has 3,7 Kw as max input from any source (wallbox, fast-charger). This would translate to approx. 6-7 hours from empty to full.

I don't understand the logic in this move from BMW, the are usually in the frontline of tech. The 45e has one of the most powerful batteries among the current generation of phev's. If there was a fairly fast way to charge that would really extend the electrical usability.
The limitation of 3.7 kW maximum external charging power is correct and there's no known way around it. Funny thing is that the high-voltage batteries can accept higher charging currents without problems. If I use Battery Control drive mode to charge the battery with the gas engine, it charges from empty to around 75 % in just one hour in my testing.

The 3.7 kW limitation is my only major disappointment with the car. Using public chargers in shopping malls and other parking places makes no sense because of the extremely low charging power.
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2020, 04:22 AM   #3
flighttracker44
New Member
5
Rep
12
Posts

Drives: X3
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: RSA

iTrader: (0)

perikifi, understand there is no way around the 3,7 Kw max today, but the question is how this limitation is withheld? As you state, the battery and other parts seems to have the capacity to charge faster (if you charge with the engine). Is it then possible that BMW could lift this charge limit with a software update in the future? Or is it a change that will require a hardware change in the future?

Maybe someone with a good understanding on how these things work can explain how BMW is limiting the charging power to 3,7kw?
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2020, 04:31 AM   #4
ikheetleon
Second Lieutenant
85
Rep
249
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e 2020
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Lifting it to 11kW or even 22 kW would be awesome! But I guess it's hardware limited, not software. I charge my car at night at home (or during the day when there is overproduction from the solar panels) so I don't mind the longer charging time. But with longer trips (holidays) it would be nice to charge 80% in half an hour or so.
Appreciate 1
volodp1.50

      02-26-2020, 04:38 AM   #5
flighttracker44
New Member
5
Rep
12
Posts

Drives: X3
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: RSA

iTrader: (0)

From what I've read the upgraded bmw i3s uses the same type of new batteries as the 45e. Understand there is a different basic requirement on that car as the i3s is only ev, but I'm assuming it still share's a lot of technology and components (as with the battery).

Does anyone know how fast you can charge the i3s?
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2020, 04:52 AM   #6
ikheetleon
Second Lieutenant
85
Rep
249
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e 2020
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

To my knowledge, the i3s charge at 7,4kW on AC and up to 50kW on DC fast charging.
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2020, 05:49 AM   #7
X5 45e
Lieutenant
240
Rep
485
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW X5 45e  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikheetleon View Post
Lifting it to 11kW or even 22 kW would be awesome! But I guess it's hardware limited, not software. I charge my car at night at home (or during the day when there is overproduction from the solar panels) so I don't mind the longer charging time. But with longer trips (holidays) it would be nice to charge 80% in half an hour or so.
I think the only real benefit would be on longer holiday trips like you mention. But probably you would only charge during lunch or dinner and even then on the entire trip it wouldn't make a big deference.

For me and I think the most of us over night charging is sufficient and I can leave it plugged for 10h. So 3.6 is enough for me.
Appreciate 1
      02-26-2020, 06:41 AM   #8
Bancroft
Private
41
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Czech Republic

iTrader: (0)

On the other hand, isn't slow charging better for the overall battery life? Is it true that the faster you charge the sooner the battery will get old and reduce its capacity? I'm not an expert, just trying to come up with a reason why BMW decided to only charge the battery this slow. It would be nice if they could speed it up with a software upgrade but my dealer said that they wouldn't upgrade my software unless I had a problem with my car.
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2020, 08:58 AM   #9
perikifi
Second Lieutenant
perikifi's Avatar
Finland
140
Rep
205
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 45e M Sport
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Finland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancroft View Post
On the other hand, isn't slow charging better for the overall battery life? Is it true that the faster you charge the sooner the battery will get old and reduce its capacity?
Not really so anymore, at least not in a significant way. BEVs that rely solely on electricity can charge faster with AC and much faster with DC. Besides, the generator in the car can charge the battery at some 15 kW in my testing. Fast charging produces heat in the cells that needs to be managed (and excessive heat would reduce cell life), but that shouldn't be a problem since the car needs temperature control capability anyway and during charging you always have power available for that.

The AC charging cable that comes with the car is 22 kW ready (three-phase 32 A 240 V). The charging electronics can push at least 15 kW into the cells. Cells are charged with DC and maybe the rectifier (AC -> DC) can't hold up pace, but that sounds strange as it shouldn't be a too expensive component.
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2020, 09:12 AM   #10
PeterPuitG
Private
Belgium
37
Rep
61
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e; X3 20d; 1990 911
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: BelgiŽ

iTrader: (0)

11 or 22 would be great indeed, it would make sense to plug it in for 1h or so at a client that has a (semi) public charging option.

Now I only plug in if i am stationary for several hours
Appreciate 2
perikifi140.00
W0ut91.50

      02-26-2020, 10:03 AM   #11
flighttracker44
New Member
5
Rep
12
Posts

Drives: X3
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: RSA

iTrader: (0)

Could it be a legal or certification issue that makes them limit the input?

I'm thinking that maybe a higher charge level would require a different and expensive certification worldwide, and since most people will use overnight charging, they have decided to settle with the lower level.

As stated in previous posts, much of the hardware seems to already be in place such as batteries (same as i3s), ability to charge faster (if you use engine as source) and even the cable (rated up to 22 Kwh). So what's stopping them from allowing a faster charge rate??
Appreciate 1
perikifi140.00

      02-26-2020, 12:31 PM   #12
perikifi
Second Lieutenant
perikifi's Avatar
Finland
140
Rep
205
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 45e M Sport
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Finland

iTrader: (0)

BTW Mercedes seems to use the same power on GLE, while Audi and Porsche have double power or 7.4 kW. Seems like a German conspiracy to keep powers low on PHEVs. Maybe the fast charging is reserved for BEVs?
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2020, 02:46 PM   #13
Masterplan
Lieutenant
Masterplan's Avatar
59
Rep
535
Posts

Drives: F87 M2
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

How much do home charging units costs in the UK out of interest?
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2020, 03:03 PM   #14
ikheetleon
Second Lieutenant
85
Rep
249
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e 2020
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

About 700 to 850 pound. But it depends on what brand you choose.

https://myenergi.com/product/zappi/
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2020, 04:19 PM   #15
jimbg
Private
10
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: LR Discovery 5
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: DEVON

iTrader: (0)

And of course there is a £500 grant as well.
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2020, 10:20 AM   #16
flighttracker44
New Member
5
Rep
12
Posts

Drives: X3
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: RSA

iTrader: (0)

Does anyone know if there is the same charging limitation on all BMW hybrids? In other words is it the same max of 3,7 Kw input on the X3 xdrive30e, 330e, 530e etc?
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2020, 10:30 AM   #17
perikifi
Second Lieutenant
perikifi's Avatar
Finland
140
Rep
205
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 45e M Sport
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Finland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flighttracker44 View Post
Does anyone know if there is the same charging limitation on all BMW hybrids? In other words is it the same max of 3,7 Kw input on the X3 xdrive30e, 330e, 530e etc?
Yes, it's the same on all hybrids.
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2020, 06:09 AM   #18
W0ut
Private First Class
Belgium
92
Rep
148
Posts

Drives: BMW G05 X5 xdrive45e
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flighttracker44 View Post
perikifi, understand there is no way around the 3,7 Kw max today, but the question is how this limitation is withheld? As you state, the battery and other parts seems to have the capacity to charge faster (if you charge with the engine). Is it then possible that BMW could lift this charge limit with a software update in the future? Or is it a change that will require a hardware change in the future?

Maybe someone with a good understanding on how these things work can explain how BMW is limiting the charging power to 3,7kw?
Keeping my fingers crossed but at the moment there is no indication that an increase in charging speed will happen. Only wishful thinking from existing 45e owners (like me).

I love my car but the slow charging speed is a real pain. 7.4kW should have been the absolute minimum. In my opinion it's a design flaw. I hate it that I'm blocking a charging spot at work for the whole (working) day.

Personally I would have paid extra for higher charging speed, a tad more powerful electrical engine or even a bigger battery pack.

I don't expect any of these upgrades on the X5 45e in the next 20 months / before the facelift.
Appreciate 1
perikifi140.00

      02-28-2020, 04:41 PM   #19
Anterialis
Private
26
Rep
54
Posts

Drives: BMW G05 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Norway

iTrader: (0)

IMO it does make sense to limit power input to a small kw. Most users charge over night. Higher input power would probably mean a heavier onboard charger and higher cost. I do however wish it was a bit higher, like 7 kw.

I see some ppl write that they use battery control to charge the battery's hole running the ICE. Why? This is rather inefficient and you end up spending more gas in the end. Iow, if you started with a full battery and max fuel, you would get further by not using battery control to charge the battery.
Appreciate 0
      02-29-2020, 01:15 AM   #20
X5 45e
Lieutenant
240
Rep
485
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW X5 45e  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anterialis View Post
IMO it does make sense to limit power input to a small kw. Most users charge over night. Higher input power would probably mean a heavier onboard charger and higher cost. I do however wish it was a bit higher, like 7 kw.

I see some ppl write that they use battery control to charge the battery's hole running the ICE. Why? This is rather inefficient and you end up spending more gas in the end. Iow, if you started with a full battery and max fuel, you would get further by not using battery control to charge the battery.
It is very inefficient . I only do it to have a fully charged battery during my trip to the alps. I can't charge here but I want to be able to pre heath. I is a bit less than 10% off battery charge each session to pre Heath. So I put my car on battery hold 30 min before I drive up the hills to the hotel to have 100% at the beginning of the week. And I put it on battery hold for the drives each day from the hotel to the slopes. I am at 16,5 l/100 km for this week. So very inefficient.
Appreciate 0
      02-29-2020, 01:56 AM   #21
Anterialis
Private
26
Rep
54
Posts

Drives: BMW G05 45e
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Norway

iTrader: (0)

Well I totally agree with that. I do the same, always keep a bit of battery at the end to make sure I can use preheat.
Appreciate 0
      02-29-2020, 02:40 AM   #22
GBR1
Captain
282
Rep
661
Posts

Drives: G05 45e on order
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Hampshire

iTrader: (0)

I still haven't got mine so not really in a position challenge your thoughts.

However (correct me if am wrong) would you not be better off charging the battery while on the motorway at 70mph before entering a city so you could then use pure electric in the city traffic?

How inefficient would the battery hold have to be to having to use the ICE when in the stop start city driving.

Don't get me wrong charging at home and not using battery hold at all is clearly the best way but the above situation is a common one!
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:35 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST