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      10-15-2018, 07:49 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
The original article linked had been modified since the time of my post.

Those who clicked it at the approximate time of my post can confirm the statement from the Cherokee Nation was left out.

Regardless, my point is that DNA tests for citizenship are trivial references at best, even for jurisdictions whose citizenship requirements are based in the principle of jus sanguinis, the ancestry must be documented.

Also, the same article notes that she does claim Cherokee and Delaware ancestry, though it is also noted that she never tried to claim it legally (which is probably a smart move since she'd be denied based on current evidence).
My understanding is that autosomal DNA testing alone does not establish native American ancestry. Since indigenous tribes possess a nationhood status and retain inherent powers of self-government with their own laws and courts they can establish pretty much any criteria for proof of ancestry. My understanding, though not certain nor verified, is that proof of relationship to a specific person or member of a tribe is preferential.
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      10-15-2018, 07:55 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Uncle Joe!
Hey Nicky...good to see you back in form tormenting your colleagues on the left...

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      10-15-2018, 07:56 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea-Tac View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
The original article linked had been modified since the time of my post.

Those who clicked it at the approximate time of my post can confirm the statement from the Cherokee Nation was left out.

Regardless, my point is that DNA tests for citizenship are trivial references at best, even for jurisdictions whose citizenship requirements are based in the principle of jus sanguinis, the ancestry must be documented.

Also, the same article notes that she does claim Cherokee and Delaware ancestry, though it is also noted that she never tried to claim it legally (which is probably a smart move since she'd be denied based on current evidence).
My understanding is that autosomal DNA testing alone does not establish native American ancestry. Since indigenous tribes possess a nationhood status and retain inherent powers of self-government with their own laws and courts they can establish pretty much any criteria for proof of ancestry. My understanding, though not certain nor verified, is that proof of relationship to a specific person or member of a tribe is preferential.
That's my understanding as well, since the tribes/nations (at least in the United States) are considered "sovereign" to an extent (principle of Tribal Sovereignty) with autonomy over their own laws (incl. citizenship).

As we learned today, this is the view shared by the Cherokee Nation, as evidenced by their official statement.
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      10-15-2018, 07:58 PM   #48
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this is hilarious.
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      10-15-2018, 08:01 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Law View Post
That's my understanding as well, since the tribes/nations (at least in the United States) are considered "sovereign" to an extent (principle of Tribal Sovereignty) with autonomy over their own laws (incl. citizenship).

As we learned today, this is the view shared by the Cherokee Nation, as evidenced by their official statement.
Precisely stated.

(Point of clarification: "including citizenship" - of their nation as opposed to citizenship within the sovereignty of the United States under the citizenship clause of the 14A).
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      10-15-2018, 08:09 PM   #50
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I wonít dispute the legitimacy of the result, but instead relay my own DNA experience with Ancestry DNA. I got my DNA test done last year and based on what my parents told me, I am half Turk, quarter Irish and quarter French. My initial DNA result came up with mainly Greek, Italian and English and possibly part African. My father, although a proud American, also is a proud Turk. I didnít want to tell him I had no Turk blood in me.

Then....ancestry updates their database and Iím suddenly 34% Turkish or so:

So what Iím trying to say is that you probably need more than one opinion on those results to validate them. And data is constantly shifting as more dna gets processed. I find the tidbit that the scientist had no American Indian DNA to compare but said Elizabeth Warren had some Indian in her. Even at 3% I think is within a statiscial probability of error but donít quote me. I was supposedly something like 6% African in my original results and now have no African DNA. YMMV.
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      10-15-2018, 08:13 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Uncle Joe!
Remember the Dole, Kennedy, Biden joke when Joe got called out for plagiarizing Neil Kinnock.
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      10-15-2018, 08:18 PM   #52
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She never claimed to be part Cherokee. What she said was she likes jerky and drove a Jeep Cherokee.
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      10-15-2018, 08:22 PM   #53
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Pocahontas Liz gon Pocahontas.

The Donald is a master troll, the greatest troll who ever lived.

Last edited by Germanauto; 10-15-2018 at 08:31 PM..
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      10-15-2018, 08:51 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea-Tac View Post
Hey Nicky...good to see you back in form tormenting your colleagues on the left...

LoL, I like Joe and have said many times I would have voted for him. Still would!

Now that the SC is apparently locked up conservative for many years to come, I'd be just fine voting for Uncle Joe!
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      10-15-2018, 09:36 PM   #55
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The problem for 2020 Presidential candidate Warren isn't that 10 generations ago someone in her family may have had some Native American blood. Her problem is that at Harvard Law school (and other places) she portrayed herself as Native American. She isn't.

According to a comprehensive DNA study by the Genetic Literacy Project, an average White person in America has 0.18 percent Native American DNA.

This means Sen. Warren has statistically *less* Indian DNA than the avg. white American.

Meanwhile this fake is steadfastly acting like these results back up her claims of being a minority, and a woman of color! Amazing. Can you say "RIP Warren 2020 campaign?"

The personal anecdote for me is that my girlfriend's dad is from Norway, and a recent 23 and Me test shows he has more Native American DNA than Fauxcahontas. True story!

Now to find me some of that Pow Wow Chow...
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      10-15-2018, 09:55 PM   #56
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      10-15-2018, 10:19 PM   #57
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if the Kavanaugh leftist outrage machine has taught us anything

if you don't absolutely believe everything a woman claims without any evidence, you're transphobic.....i think
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      10-15-2018, 10:25 PM   #58
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The Onion nails it.

Elizabeth Warren Disappointed After DNA Test Shows Zero Trace Of Presidential Materia‬l
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      10-15-2018, 11:53 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
I can see Bidden right about now.

'Oh dear God'
'No she didn't'
'BARTENDER!'
No, Biden more likely said something like "you can't go to a Harvard Law Class without having a slight Indian accent!"



Kills me every time
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      10-15-2018, 11:55 PM   #60
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I seriously doubt if this matters at all to anyone who previously liked her.
I'm not convinced anyone actually likes her. I run in some pretty liberal circles and have yet to come across anyone who doesn't roll their eyes and mutter "Please God, no, don't run in 2020" whenever her name comes up. Who is her base? Is it baby boomer women who put all their hopes in HRC and just want a woman in office no matter who it is or how bad she is?

In other news, my 23 and me showed I'm 1% Asian of indeterminate origin. Not sure what I'm going to do with that new knowledge but, whatever. Maybe I'll just enjoy my spicy Hunan style meal that much more.
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      10-15-2018, 11:59 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
Interestingly (but not surprisingly) that CNN reports the test as successful proof and makes no mention of the Cherokee Nation statement...
CNN is covering it tonight. As I type this, in fact.

Also, I don't think Warren ever claimed tribal status with any tribe, did she?

"Family histories" are notoriously inaccurate - are they not? Hell, one of the testing services even made an entire ad about it; the guy who grew up thinking he was German, but found out he was majority Scottish and no German ancestry. Right?

Now, if she ever used, or attempted to use, her claimed Native American status for any benefit at any point along her career - that's fair game for criticism.
Without the "Native American" claim, I wonder if the Harvard Law School crowd would have hired the housewife from Oklahoma?
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      10-16-2018, 12:17 AM   #62
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The DNA test was done by a private company...

Interpreted by a Stanford professor....

Are essentially inconclusive, based on what the professor actually said...

Another part that caught my attention was:

"Detecting DNA for Native Americans is particularly tricky because there is an absence of Native American DNA available for comparison. This is in part because Native American leaders have asked tribal members not to participate in genetic databases.

"Detecting DNA for Native Americans is particularly tricky because there is an absence of Native American DNA available for comparison. This is in part because Native American leaders have asked tribal members not to participate in genetic databases."

To make up for the dearth of Native American DNA, Bustamante used samples from Mexico, Peru, and Colombia to stand in for Native American. That's because scientists believe that the groups Americans refer to as Native American came to this land via the Bering Strait about 12,000 years ago and settled in what's now America but also migrated further south."

So - "Native American" tribes are most likely not Native American whatsoever? They came across the bearing strait from Asia/Russia? What does that do to the entire NA narrative? Could this be why the NA tribes discourage their members from participating in DNA analysis?
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      10-16-2018, 12:36 AM   #63
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And then there's this:

"In what may be the ultimate and cruelest irony, not only is it unlikely that Elizabeth Warren's great-great-great grandmother was Cherokee, it turns out that Warren's great-great-great grandfather was a member of a militia unit which participated in the round-up of the Cherokees in the prelude to the Trail of Tears."

https://legalinsurrection.com/2012/0...cherokee-saga/
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      10-16-2018, 03:33 AM   #64
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I have 1% Mali DNA does that open me up to all those African American business and education assistance loans?
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      10-16-2018, 03:44 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by OnerDriver View Post
LOL

And if her native heritage comes from Colombia or Peru, maybe she is not even Pocahontas...

People have lost their damn minds. Look at all the news reports on this... smmfh
Start calling her La Malinche
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      10-16-2018, 03:57 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by MGM135is View Post
I wonít dispute the legitimacy of the result, but instead relay my own DNA experience with Ancestry DNA. I got my DNA test done last year and based on what my parents told me, I am half Turk, quarter Irish and quarter French. My initial DNA result came up with mainly Greek, Italian and English and possibly part African. My father, although a proud American, also is a proud Turk. I didnít want to tell him I had no Turk blood in me.

Then....ancestry updates their database and Iím suddenly 34% Turkish or so:

So what Iím trying to say is that you probably need more than one opinion on those results to validate them. And data is constantly shifting as more dna gets processed. I find the tidbit that the scientist had no American Indian DNA to compare but said Elizabeth Warren had some Indian in her. Even at 3% I think is within a statiscial probability of error but donít quote me. I was supposedly something like 6% African in my original results and now have no African DNA. YMMV.
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