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      03-13-2019, 07:25 AM   #1
Grumpy Old Man
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Boeing 737 Max 8 grounding - Thoughts?

So just about every country on the planet have grounded these planes except for the USA and Canada. I know there are a number of pilots on this thread, I'd love to hear their thoughts on the issue.

Air Canada is a Quebec company and I can't help but wonder if this is an economic decision in Canada as Air Canada has a fleet of something like 152 large passenger aircraft, 24 of which 737 Max 8's. This would have a significant financial impact on Air Canada.

Thoughts?
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      03-13-2019, 07:31 AM   #2
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My thoughts are that if another accident happens the fallout will be beyond epic...
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      03-13-2019, 07:38 AM   #3
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Make sure you check what plane you fly next time, I know I will.
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      03-13-2019, 07:53 AM   #4
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Boeing couldn't find anything wrong therefore they shouldn't ground them.

But if there is nothing wrong, then why the plane crashed? Hm...

Maybe there are some other software bugs they don't know yet. So much for self driving.
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      03-13-2019, 08:00 AM   #5
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So I'm not one to run off alarming and I generally trust the oversight that is in place on the airline industry at least in first world countries. Two planes have crashed just after takeoff in 5 months, the ethiopian airline pilot apparently was well respected with 8000 hours of flying time. I get this is going to cost some airlines a lot of cash, but when do you make the hard choice.

I'm flying to New Orleans tomorrow and I checked to see what kind of a plane were travelling on, not a 737 Max 8 so I don't have to make the decision luckily.
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      03-13-2019, 08:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post

I'm flying to New Orleans tomorrow and I checked to see what kind of a plane were travelling on, not a 737 Max 8 so I don't have to make the decision luckily.
New Orleans will present a far greater danger to your well being than flying in any aircraft will...
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      03-13-2019, 08:03 AM   #7
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      03-13-2019, 08:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
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What do you think the issue with the plane is? And I'm glad you didn't die.
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      03-13-2019, 08:11 AM   #9
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...KBN1QU15W?il=0

Quote:
In November, two incidents were reported to the NASA-run Aviation Safety Reporting Database that involved problems in controlling the 737 MAX at low altitude just after take-off with autopilot engaged, according to documents first published by the Dallas Morning News and verified by Reuters.

"We discussed the departure at length and I reviewed in my mind our automation setup and flight profile but can’t think of any reason the aircraft would pitch nose down so aggressively,” one pilot said.

In another case, the pilot said: “With the concerns with the MAX 8 nose down stuff, we thought it appropriate to bring it to your attention.”

Boeing did not respond immediately to a request for comment, but it has previously said it provided appropriate information to pilots to use an existing procedure to handle the issue of erroneous data affecting the anti-stall system.
There's clearly something in the software that messing with the airplane controls. Since it's software so it could be anything.
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      03-13-2019, 09:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
What do you think the issue with the plane is? And I'm glad you didn't die.
Boeing needs to do a better job with their training manuals on the the Max!
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      03-13-2019, 09:34 AM   #11
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I think 346 victims for half a year - it is a valid reason for suspension of all flights of this type aircraft
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      03-13-2019, 09:47 AM   #12
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I'm no pilot, and I DIDN'T stay at Holiday Inn Express last night, but who TF takes off on auto-pilot????

And with such a program in place, how do you put it in A-P and NOT know how to disable it in an emergency?

Curious also about the maintenance records. Not positive that the criteria in some countries beside first-world are quite as stringent.
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      03-13-2019, 10:09 AM   #13
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Is it a CRM problem? Can't you turn off the auto pilot?
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      03-13-2019, 10:11 AM   #14
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I'm an Airbus pilot and we have something similar. However, we can also override it and disable it if we really, really need to.

I'm not convinced yet that this crash was in the same vein as the Lion Air. These other airlines have less than stellar maintenance practices.
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      03-13-2019, 10:11 AM   #15
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The second pilot had less than 200 hours flown before getting on...
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      03-13-2019, 10:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
The second pilot had less than 200 hours flown before getting on...
Realize that was our requirements as well up until the Colgan Air crash in 2009.
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      03-13-2019, 10:31 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I'm an Airbus pilot and we have something similar. However, we can also override it and disable it if we really, really need to.

I'm not convinced yet that this crash was in the same vein as the Lion Air. These other airlines have less than stellar maintenance practices.
True, but this was a brand new airplane.
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      03-13-2019, 10:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I'm an Airbus pilot and we have something similar. However, we can also override it and disable it if we really, really need to.

I'm not convinced yet that this crash was in the same vein as the Lion Air. These other airlines have less than stellar maintenance practices.
True, but this was a brand new airplane.
Sure. Poor maintenance can screw up a perfectly good airplane pretty fast.
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      03-13-2019, 11:31 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
True, but this was a brand new airplane.
This. The fact that 2 of them have crashed in under a year should ground them.

Regardless of it being a software issue or training issue, it's still an issue that has killed people.
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      03-13-2019, 11:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
The second pilot had less than 200 hours flown before getting on...
The Ethiopian pilot had over 8000 hours, the co-pilot had 200 hours.
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      03-13-2019, 11:59 AM   #21
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Canada just ground the 737 Max 8 and 9 and is banning them from Canadian air space.
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      03-13-2019, 12:24 PM   #22
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The anti-stall feature is not an auto-pilot. The pilot still flies the airplane but the anti-stall will only kick in if the software thinks the plane might stall. In this crash, so far based on the black box data, it does not seem to be the anti-stall issue as the Lion Air. But the fact that the software interferes with the actual pilot, it shows there is some soft of software bug.

At at such an low altitude at take off, if something like this exists, the pilot may not have time to react.
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