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      03-15-2019, 11:25 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
I'll see you and raise you. I flew in an Ilyushin Il-62 via DETA Airlines between Almaty and Istanbul, which was built in the mid 1960's and maintained by Soviet Russia. I flew in this plane in 2006.

It was the scariest piece of shit commercial aircraft I've ever had the pleasure of surviving. The seats smelled like urine and fear.
Very scary plane.

No backup control cables?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOT_Po...lines_Flight_7
On 14 March 1980 at around 11:00 local time, LOT Flight 7 from New York City to Warsaw crashed during a landing attempt at Warsaw-Okecie Airport, killing all 77 passengers and 10 crew members on board the Ilyushin Il-62 (reg. SP-LAA), including singer Anna Jantar. The pilots had encountered a landing gear problem and began the standard go-around procedure, during which a shaft in the no. 2 engine disintegrated, damaging the rudder and elevator control lines, and causing the aircraft to enter an uncontrolled dive.[78]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOT_Po...es_Flight_5055
LOT Polish Airlines Flight 5055 was an Ilyushin Il-62M of LOT Polish Airlines that crashed in the late morning hours of Saturday, May 9, 1987. The event happened in the Kabaty Woods nature reserve on the outskirts of Warsaw, Poland. The flight prepared to leave from Warsaw to New York City's John F. Kennedy International airport when it encountered multiple catastrophic events with the numbers 1 and 2 engines as well as the elevator shortly after departure. All 183 passengers and crew on board perished in the crash. The accident was the deadliest of any involving an Ilyushin Il-62, and to date, it remains the deadliest aviation crash in Polish history. It was determined to have been caused by the disintegration of an engine shaft due to faulty bearings.


It seems that almost everyday, when reading wikipedia's "this day in history", there's almost always a plane crash.
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      03-15-2019, 11:35 AM   #68
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Angle of attack sensor + human pilots unable to override a malfunctioning computer = disaster.

Can't wait for self driving cars in school zones...
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      03-15-2019, 12:22 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
I'll see you and raise you. I flew in an Ilyushin Il-62 via DETA Airlines between Almaty and Istanbul, which was built in the mid 1960's and maintained by Soviet Russia. I flew in this plane in 2006.

It was the scariest piece of shit commercial aircraft I've ever had the pleasure of surviving. The seats smelled like urine and fear.
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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
You sat in multiple seats on a single flight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Here ya go - fixed it.

"The entire interior cabin smelled like urine and fear."
The same smell occurs on College Admission Day in Hollywood, or so I hear.
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      03-15-2019, 12:25 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
The same smell occurs on College Admission Day in Hollywood, or so I hear.
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      03-15-2019, 04:02 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
Angle of attack sensor + human pilots unable to override a malfunctioning computer = disaster.

Can't wait for self driving cars in school zones...
I would disagree the inability to override it. The plane is designed fine, it's the way Boeing pitched it as an effectively no training airframe from the traditional 737. It sound's like it was sold that the aircrew would not need any training and they ignored that the MCAS system would pitch the nose downward as the AOA increased before it stalled. But the info from the box is still TBD from both crashes so we shall see. If it comes out that the aircraft over-pitched downwards then it's a different story.
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      03-15-2019, 04:10 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ec90 View Post
I would disagree the inability to override it. The plane is designed fine, it's the way Boeing pitched it as an effectively no training airframe from the traditional 737. It sound's like it was sold that the aircrew would not need any training and they ignored that the MCAS system would pitch the nose downward as the AOA increased before it stalled. But the info from the box is still TBD from both crashes so we shall see. If it comes out that the aircraft over-pitched downwards then it's a different story.
You could very well be right.

Time will tell.
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      03-16-2019, 01:13 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
Angle of attack sensor + human pilots unable to override a malfunctioning computer = disaster.

Can't wait for self driving cars in school zones...
It’s inevitable that autonomous or semi-autonomous cars will have similar software programs that will override the human factor, and we won’t be aware of it or be able to alter it.

I still don’t understand the passion for more automation and less human involvement. We’re at the stage that a “software upgrade” can destroy hundreds of lives, and we just patch it, and send the public flying again.

I guess when the autonomous car runs over a kid, rather than an animal, we’ll just patch that too.
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      03-16-2019, 04:11 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
It’s inevitable that autonomous or semi-autonomous cars will have similar software programs that will override the human factor, and we won’t be aware of it or be able to alter it.

I still don’t understand the passion for more automation and less human involvement. We’re at the stage that a “software upgrade” can destroy hundreds of lives, and we just patch it, and send the public flying again.

I guess when the autonomous car runs over a kid, rather than an animal, we’ll just patch that too.
A more fundamental issue at hands is if software can replicate a human.
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      03-17-2019, 08:14 PM   #75
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Not looking good for Boeing at all. The investigations are now pointing at a lot of simularity between the two crashes. This likey won't bode well for their cushy relationship with certain people in the US government, including Trump, in the event it is negligence on Boeing's part.
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      03-17-2019, 08:40 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timujin View Post
I had no idea these were being built at a rate of 1/day. They had a goal to bump that up!
https://www.boeing.com/company/about...-07-28-17.page
Current build rate is 57.7 planes per month.
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      03-17-2019, 10:45 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pukicabuki View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timujin View Post
I had no idea these were being built at a rate of 1/day. They had a goal to bump that up!
https://www.boeing.com/company/about...-07-28-17.page
Current build rate is 57.7 planes per month.
That is uncalled for and raises serious quality questions IMO.
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      03-17-2019, 11:11 PM   #78
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I believe in todays day and age planes should not crash whatsoever unless there is serious human error or misfueling. They're just so automated with safe guards for everything
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      03-18-2019, 12:26 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328dX View Post
I believe in todays day and age planes should not crash whatsoever unless there is serious human error or misfueling. They're just so automated with safe guards for everything
You honestly can't be serious.

Commercial aviation is still extremely safe. But when you look at the number of flights around the world in a year, even the one in a million possibility can occur.
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      03-18-2019, 12:34 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
You honestly can't be serious.

Commercial aviation is still extremely safe. But when you look at the number of flights around the world in a year, even the one in a million possibility can occur.
I agree, but you have to look at what are the reasons behind a crash, and i'm not talking about a defective plane with an unknown error, that's on boeing to figure out.
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      03-18-2019, 12:41 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328dX View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
You honestly can't be serious.

Commercial aviation is still extremely safe. But when you look at the number of flights around the world in a year, even the one in a million possibility can occur.
I agree, but you have to look at what are the reasons behind a crash, and i'm not talking about a defective plane with an unknown error, that's on boeing to figure out.
Even something that is "failsafe" isn't so. It just might have a 1 in a million or 10 million possibility of occurring.

Failures occur all the time. You just never hear about it because the aircrew are able to deal with the emergency without an issue.

This is definitely a special case. Boeing should get raked over the coals for it.
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      03-18-2019, 01:04 PM   #82
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Looks like it's the case of hardware got fcked by the software. How the fck do you certified that?
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      03-18-2019, 01:13 PM   #83
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Easy, Boeing certified it themselves and wrote the report to the FAA saying all is well.

Again, it's shit like this why government oversight is not a bad thing.
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      03-18-2019, 01:16 PM   #84
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Quote:
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Easy, Boeing certified it themselves and wrote the report to the FAA saying all is well.
Seriously?

No conflict there whatsoever...
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      03-18-2019, 01:20 PM   #85
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Yep. It was in the article. Actually, it was an article written before the second crash even.

In the Boeing report, they said MCAS could only change the trim 0.6 degrees. That was before the flight tests occurred. Flight tests showed it need more up to 2.5 degrees and pretty much gave it unlimited authority but never updated their report to the FAA.
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      03-18-2019, 03:29 PM   #86
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It's software. Fcking unlimited sh$t can happen. Fcking stupid software.

Last edited by WestRace; 03-18-2019 at 05:10 PM..
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      03-18-2019, 06:55 PM   #87
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      03-18-2019, 08:31 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Certifying these software is like a crap shoot. Any sh$t can happen.
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