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      03-09-2020, 04:58 AM   #1
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Keyless access break in

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I thought I'd read in the forums that once the key is stationary, after a few seconds it, for want of a better phrase, turns off.

Someone broke into our car last night, and I can only assume they boosted the key. Thankfully nothing taken, and no damage.

What do you do - do you put their keys in Faraday cages inside the house? Is there a "safe" distance? I thought to be honest the keys were far enough away.

Any recommendations for a nice looking cage?
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      03-09-2020, 05:58 AM   #2
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You can check if your key is turning off by putting it near the car, leave for a period of time and try opening the car before moving the key.
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      03-09-2020, 06:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Whizz UK View Post

Any recommendations for a nice looking cage?
I bought the AMJ Protective Key Cover.
It is not so cheap, but at least it looks and feels fantastic.

The only thing I'm missing is my new X5 45e
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      03-09-2020, 08:18 AM   #4
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You can check if your key is turning off by putting it near the car, leave for a period of time and try opening the car before moving the key.
The timer is set to 10 minutes by default but can be coded to as low as 30-40 seconds.
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      03-09-2020, 08:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMPHIL View Post
You can check if your key is turning off by putting it near the car, leave for a period of time and try opening the car before moving the key.
The timer is set to 10 minutes by default but can be coded to as low as 30-40 seconds.
Can this be coded using Bimmercode?
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      03-09-2020, 09:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkleyman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMPHIL View Post
You can check if your key is turning off by putting it near the car, leave for a period of time and try opening the car before moving the key.
The timer is set to 10 minutes by default but can be coded to as low as 30-40 seconds.
I am curious about this as well. The way this functionality was explained in earlier threads, the key has accelerometers and stops transmitting if accelerometers don't register motion for a period of time. This implies mostly key functionality, not car functionality, so it is harder to visualize how the timeout could be coded. It's not impossible in that arrangement if, for example, car instructs key on timeout parameters, but seems low probability.

Or does the key shutdown operates some other way, with the car acting as some kind of a key on/off master controller (in which case coding to change timeout would be entirely plausible).?
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      03-09-2020, 09:39 AM   #7
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So I've been attempting to build on of these boosters and found some interesting information. So on the white hat hacker forum (the one i'm on is invite only) there are a couple issues with using the unit. First you must have the transmitter within 5 - 7' of the fob when using high end equipment. The other end near the car. This being said they were telling me why the hell would anyone use this at someone's home??? It is designed basically to be a two party system. Couple out to dinner man in side or near them at the restaurant man out side in the parking lot. Keep in mind just the booster cannot start the car that is another signal in most models. Either way still attempting to get one sorted to test at home but thinking about it my X5 is in the garage first and my key is over 80' away in a kitchen. So don't think it is my worry but thought the idea was cool enough to figure out!!

With that note some older models use a single RF signature and other use revolving so you cannot simply copy one and do it at another time you must copy all. There is a bit more to this part but i'm still learning.
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      03-09-2020, 10:27 AM   #8
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Why are BMW not using the same system as this?

https://teamtalk.jaguarlandrover.com...-entry-attacks
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      03-09-2020, 10:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbg View Post
Why are BMW not using the same system as this?

https://teamtalk.jaguarlandrover.com...-entry-attacks
Good find and I would assume soon enough they will adopt a version of it.
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      03-09-2020, 11:17 AM   #10
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I have it on my 2017 Land Rover Discovery and I believe is used by other manufacturers.

The BMW and Mercedes system of trying to detect if a key has moved seems prone to issues.

Guess I will have to get used to it when my X5 45e finally arrives.
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      03-09-2020, 11:40 AM   #11
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Just wrap your key in aluminum foil and attach a grounding wire from the foil down through your first floor and into the basement and then attach the wire to a metal rod that goes through your basement floor into the ground under it about six feet.

Ok, as is normally the case, manufacturers copy one another, so give BMW time and they will change the way their key transmission works. In the meantime, I have a key box that I lined with aluminum foil and that is where all the car keys are kept. However, when I leave the house, they are in my pocket, unprotected. Older keys only sent one signal to unlock and start, I think the X5 uses different frequencies for those functions. I do like the way Land Rover does it better than BMW but we have what we have and if our key is in our pocket when we are out and about, its always on the move and therefore always on.

You can buy a faraday sleeve to put it in, some are a bit bulky, some are very thin and basically amount to the funny aluminum foil trick but look much better. So if you are in a densely populated area, an area with crime, maybe the faraday sleeve will help.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=faraday+k...nb_sb_ss_i_2_8

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      03-09-2020, 12:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbg View Post
I have it on my 2017 Land Rover Discovery and I believe is used by other manufacturers.

The BMW and Mercedes system of trying to detect if a key has moved seems prone to issues.

Guess I will have to get used to it when my X5 45e finally arrives.
You don't have to get used to it. It just switches of when not moving when you put it down somewhere. Once you pick it up it starts transmitting again and works.
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      03-09-2020, 12:09 PM   #13
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I use a stainless steel sugar bowl as a shield. Looks perfectly normal on the kitchen bar as well.

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      03-09-2020, 12:35 PM   #14
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I use a stainless steel sugar bowl as a shield. Looks perfectly normal on the kitchen bar as well.

That's not bad, but Marty in Bgm's is properly grounded :-). A floating faraday cage might act as an antenna rather than a shield :-).
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      03-09-2020, 01:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
That's not bad, but Marty in Bgm's is properly grounded :-). A floating faraday cage might act as an antenna rather than a shield :-).
Ahah perhaps, but mine would be the last place a burglar would look into for my keys :-)

Mind you, seems to be working pretty well, I squeezed a phone in there once and tried to call it and it was completely dead. I know it's not the same frequency band, but it looks like a really REALLY bad antenna project to me :-)
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      03-09-2020, 01:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Whizz UK View Post
I thought I'd read in the forums that once the key is stationary, after a few seconds it, for want of a better phrase, turns off.

Someone broke into our car last night, and I can only assume they boosted the key. Thankfully nothing taken, and no damage.

What do you do - do you put their keys in Faraday cages inside the house? Is there a "safe" distance? I thought to be honest the keys were far enough away.

Any recommendations for a nice looking cage?
If they had a key signal booster, they would have just stolen the car no? I can't foresee anyone walking around with that equipment just to steal sunglasses or other trinkets from a parked car. If you have that kit, its going to be to steal the cars surely?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbg View Post
Why are BMW not using the same system as this?

https://teamtalk.jaguarlandrover.com...-entry-attacks
My neighbour's RR sport was stolen via keyless replication so not convinced on how well this works.
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      03-09-2020, 02:37 PM   #17
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Ahah perhaps, but mine would be the last place a burglar would look into for my keys :-)
The burglar does't break into your house to look for your keys. They stay outside with their receiver which picks up your keys signal and transmits it to the other burglar who has the second receiver/transmitter and is standing by your car. However, your sugar bowl may very well do the trick when your keys are at home.

This is a scary topic that I seem to be seeing more frequently in news articles. There is always some bad that comes with the good that technology brings us. I had a convertible years back and cut the wiring to the starter and put a switch in there and hid the switch, I did it to a fuel pump relay on another car I had. I wonder if I can eloquently add an on/off switch to my key fob
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      03-09-2020, 02:54 PM   #18
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This is absolutely scary, how should we keep our car safe?
Tho my neighbour all have better cars than me(like m5 comp, panamera turbo, Maserati and etc), I guess my car will not be the target for a while XD
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      03-09-2020, 03:04 PM   #19
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This is why i deliberately did not spec keyless entry. Many cars stolen in the Uk because of this. If they dont physically have the key, they cant steal the car. Simples.
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      03-09-2020, 03:10 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by TrollingCavalier View Post
This is absolutely scary, how should we keep our car safe?
Tho my neighbour all have better cars than me(like m5 comp, panamera turbo, Maserati and etc), I guess my car will not be the target for a while XD
Bottom line is...you can't. If someone really wants your car, they'll just winch it onto a flatbed and its gone. However, I think we are talking about the 80/20 rule here. The people who really want it and have the means to get it are the 20%. Its the 80% I think we're referring to here.
Be smart where you park it, take precautions with your key fob like this thread is talking about, don't leave it unlocked when out and about and think about safeguarding your garage so people can't open the garage door with a coat hanger, etc.
I stopped driving my personal cars into NYC many years ago. Not solely because I thought they might be stolen but more likely due to 95% of the cars there are dented/damaged. If I need to go there, I rent one. You have choices in life and if it should happen that yours is stolen, the most valuable parts of it are your personal belongings inside...the car can be replaced. They make them every day.
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      03-09-2020, 03:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
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This is why i deliberately did not spec keyless entry. Many cars stolen in the Uk because of this. If they dont physically have the key, they cant steal the car. Simples.
Interesting..can't do that here, Comfort Access is a standard feature on the base model.
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      03-09-2020, 03:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro55 View Post
This is why i deliberately did not spec keyless entry. Many cars stolen in the Uk because of this. If they dont physically have the key, they cant steal the car. Simples.
Interesting..can't do that here, Comfort Access is a standard feature on the base model.
I'm no Magnum PI, but pretty sure cars got stolen before keyless entry was a thing.
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