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      09-25-2019, 11:07 AM   #1
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Affordable housing in expensive areas

Regarding the homeless problem in major California cities like LA and SF, can't we just relocate these people to inexpensive areas like Palmdale, Joshua Tree and Kern County and build the affordable housing there rather than on expensive land? These people don't have jobs so as long as you give them a place to live with food and water does it matter where?
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      09-25-2019, 01:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
Regarding the homeless problem in major California cities like LA and SF, can't we just relocate these people to inexpensive areas like Palmdale, Joshua Tree and Kern County and build the affordable housing there rather than on expensive land? These people don't have jobs so as long as you give them a place to live with food and water does it matter where?
I agree dump them in the wealthiest zip coded. Let the libs put their money where their mouth is.
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      09-25-2019, 01:05 PM   #3
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great idea. move them somewhere else so they arent your problem.
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      09-25-2019, 01:13 PM   #4
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We could call those communities “Gulags”, right?
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      09-25-2019, 01:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
Regarding the homeless problem in major California cities like LA and SF, can't we just relocate these people to inexpensive areas like Palmdale, Joshua Tree and Kern County and build the affordable housing there rather than on expensive land? These people don't have jobs so as long as you give them a place to live with food and water does it matter where?
"These people"

1) Your plan will create the largest NIMBY outrage in modern times.

2) They are people, mostly with mental illness, simply moving them isn't going to solve the problem.

3) Your plan is basically forced relocation of those you deem undesirable. Don't you think that might not be the best plan? Trail of Tears ring a bell, anyone?

Good grief.
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      09-25-2019, 01:27 PM   #6
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So I'm in construction and residential development in NYC and the tax benefits of delegating a % of condos as affordable housing help stimulate investors/developers to do so. Affordable housing isn't for the homeless, it's typically for low-income.

That being said, these tax relief/abatement policies are merely the result of terrible tax policy.

Brought to you by the kind folks of the Democratic party.
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      09-25-2019, 02:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
"These people"

1) Your plan will create the largest NIMBY outrage in modern times.

2) They are people, mostly with mental illness, simply moving them isn't going to solve the problem.

3) Your plan is basically forced relocation of those you deem undesirable. Don't you think that might not be the best plan? Trail of Tears ring a bell, anyone?

Good grief.
Totally agree.

A lack of "affordable housing" is not the problem here. When you are totally broke, cant work, and cant function in society due to mental illness or the consequences of poor life decisions, ALL housing no matter how cheap is unaffordable. Instead of wasting money on building "affordable housing' to then give away to the mentally ill and drug addicted, we should be directing funds towards mental heath, substance abuse, and societal re-integration programs.
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      09-25-2019, 03:09 PM   #8
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I mean you can literally buy 1000 acres of land for about the same price as a small parcel in the city and house all these people. Makes sense to me.
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      09-25-2019, 03:16 PM   #9
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I mean you can literally buy 1000 acres of land for about the same price as a small parcel in the city and house all these people. Makes sense to me.
They should have a slogan for these communities. Something catchy, of course, but also motivational.

How about “Work will Set You Free”? They could make it part of a gate or something like that as “those people” pass through to get on the buses to go to their jobs (although let’s face it, it would be more efficient to use trains).
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      09-25-2019, 03:29 PM   #10
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I'd prefer they keep living on the sidewalk in front of politicians houses until reality sets in.
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      09-25-2019, 03:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
"These people"

1) Your plan will create the largest NIMBY outrage in modern times.

2) They are people, mostly with mental illness, simply moving them isn't going to solve the problem.

3) Your plan is basically forced relocation of those you deem undesirable. Don't you think that might not be the best plan? Trail of Tears ring a bell, anyone?

Good grief.
Serious question, why is saying "these people" or "those people" considered offensive? I got called out for saying those people recently and didn't mean it in any offensive way, just talking about the people over there.

If he started that sentence with homeless people instead of these people, I am guessing you wouldn't have pointed it out, even though to me it seems the same.
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      09-25-2019, 03:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
"These people"

1) Your plan will create the largest NIMBY outrage in modern times.

2) They are people, mostly with mental illness, simply moving them isn't going to solve the problem.

3) Your plan is basically forced relocation of those you deem undesirable. Don't you think that might not be the best plan? Trail of Tears ring a bell, anyone?

Good grief.
Serious question, why is saying "these people" or "those people" considered offensive? I got called out for saying those people recently and didn't mean it in any offensive way, just talking about the people over there.

If he started that sentence with homeless people instead of these people, I am guessing you wouldn't have pointed it out, even though to me it seems the same.
If someone was willing to purchase the land with private funds then NIMBY wouldn't really apply unless it was affecting the neighbors but in these areas the neighbors could be miles away.
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      09-25-2019, 03:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
Serious question, why is saying "these people" or "those people" considered offensive? I got called out for saying those people recently and didn't mean it in any offensive way, just talking about the people over there.

If he started that sentence with homeless people instead of these people, I am guessing you wouldn't have pointed it out, even though to me it seems the same.
I dunno - it just rubbed me the wrong way.

If there was no ill intention, I'm fine with it, but the whole post just seemed derogatory.
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Last edited by Run Silent; 09-25-2019 at 04:20 PM..
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      09-25-2019, 03:49 PM   #14
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Trail of shopping carts?
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      09-25-2019, 03:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
If someone was willing to purchase the land with private funds then NIMBY wouldn't really apply unless it was affecting the neighbors but in these areas the neighbors could be miles away.
do you really not see the issue with shipping the homeless out to a homeless community where all the homeless are gathered up and kept in 1 location?

I am going to guess this homeless community will have to be fenced in and patrolled so the homeless dont escape and go back to the nice areas of town again.
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      09-25-2019, 04:02 PM   #16
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I think we are mixing two issues together. There is a big difference between affordable housing and homeless housing/shelter. You still need income for affordable housing.

That being said I don't beleive the OP has any ill intentions, to me, it seems like he was just asking why have homeless on the streets in the middle of the city instead of providing them homes in more rural areas. The answer is complicated, but the question shouldn't be considered horrible.
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      09-25-2019, 04:19 PM   #17
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Not sure I read with the intent of forcing them to move. I think OP meant that if you said "hey brother, you tire of sleeping in a box on the sidewalk and being chased away in the morning? We have a place you can go with the same climate with housing to keep you dry and comfortable" they might make the choice to go themselves. Doubt he meant rounding them up and locking them in there. But OP can speak for himself.

But as many have pointed out - it is hard to "reason" with someone that is mentally ill.

I had a guy I worked with once and his brother had minor mental issues compounded by severe drug and alcohol abuse. He was homeless, his brother tried to get him straight many times and finally gave up on changing him and remodeled his basement as a stand alone apartment. He went and found him and dug him out from under an overpass he was living in and brought him home and said "here - you can live here and come and go as you please. You have your own door and thermost and cable TV bathroom - the works. I will even buy you booze, but not drugs. You can use drugs here if you want - I just want to know when I go to bed at night you are safe and have food." Lasted about 2 months. He came home one day and he was gone and a few days later he was back under his bridge (45 minute drive away) and died there a little over a year later.

Our logic just does not work when someone is in that state. He took it hard and felt he could have done more, but in reality there was just nothing he could do.

We all have to walk our own paths. Very sad.
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      09-25-2019, 05:22 PM   #18
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I’m proposing a ban on poor people
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      09-25-2019, 05:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
do you really not see the issue with shipping the homeless out to a homeless community where all the homeless are gathered up and kept in 1 location?

I am going to guess this homeless community will have to be fenced in and patrolled so the homeless dont escape and go back to the nice areas of town again.
No they can work and support themselves instead.
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      09-25-2019, 06:16 PM   #20
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There are a few who HAVE taken it upon themselves to move out to the desert. They are the hardiest of those living on the street. IT is both extremely hot during the summer, and extremely cold during the winter. A few were interviewed and were PROUD of their accomplishments.

But again we have to make a serious distinction between economically homeless and vagrant. The latter want no help from you other than some extra cash, whether you donate it or they take it themselves.

Low-income housing, as stated above, still requires income. If many were moved to the rural areas, they have no opportunity to generate income without a large metropolis nearby to provide them at least menial/unskilled (NOT derogatory intent) jobs that they don't have to commute (no car/gas).

Chicken/egg unfortunately.
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      09-25-2019, 06:36 PM   #21
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there is no solution because if you build in low income areas it is saturation and more of the same... if you place them in affordable housing in affluent areas all you're doing is shifting the burden to another area of the person's life. now these people live in an area that is generally comprised of high net worth individuals with stores and restaurants that are geared for that clientele. great, now that individual can live there but can't do anything in that area. it is similar to promoting children to the next grade when they are not on that level just to shift the burden to someone else. the individual can't keep up, doesn't feel like they belong and sometimes affects the entire class versus the entire class helping the one child.
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      09-25-2019, 07:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
do you really not see the issue with shipping the homeless out to a homeless community where all the homeless are gathered up and kept in 1 location?

I am going to guess this homeless community will have to be fenced in and patrolled so the homeless dont escape and go back to the nice areas of town again.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

NYC tried this for many years with Camp LaGuardia, and I used to live across town from it for many years:

https://www.vaildaily.com/news/large...fter-70-years/

Quote:
Largest homeless shelter in NYC to close after 70 years
February 26, 2007
Associated Press

CHESTER, N.Y. – Every day, a bus picks up homeless men off the streets of New York City and takes them 70 miles out into the countryside to a shelter, in a practice that has been going on quietly since the Depression, when homeless people were called Bowery bums and fresh air was the solution to just about all ills.The 1,001-bed Camp LaGuardia is New York City’s biggest homeless shelter – and the only one surrounded by farms and trees – but its very existence is probably a surprise to many lifelong New Yorkers.Now the city is closing it down.While 73-year-old Camp LaGuardia was born of good intentions and what was then considered progressive thinking, some activists disapprove of it as an out-of-sight, out-of-mind answer to the city’s homeless problem.City Hall says its decision to shut down the shelter was more practical: It is too far outside New York, and the city wants to move away from temporary shelters to subsidized housing.The shelter opened in 1934 on the site of a women’s prison. It was named for the city’s exuberant mayor, Fiorello LaGuardia, a year later. The place was expanded greatly in the 1980s with the growth of New York’s homeless population.Old jail cells in the main brick building are still used to house older, frailer men, though most of the men are assigned a cot and a squat locker in dorm-style rooms in other buildings, some of which were built in recent decades. The rooms and halls are careworn, and some of the paint is peeling.In the camp’s early decades, the homeless men could rustle up summer work in the kitchens at the big Catskills-style hotels, grow potatoes on the camp’s farm, even relax over beer at the tap room – yes, a tap room – though they were not allowed to get drunk.

Nowadays, some of the men work day jobs at places such as a chicken-plucking plant operated by a community of Hasidic Jews.Homeless men who seek shelter from the city and are assigned to Camp LaGuardia can refuse, and go back on the streets, or they can seek a transfer. Once they are here, they can come and go from the 300-acre camp, but there are not many places to go. The commercial center of Chester, a town of about 12,000, is more than a mile down the road.About a third of the men leave on the daily buses to New York City for medical appointments, housing searches or family visits. Some work in the city.Mohamed Chakdouf, 58, lost his job as a concierge at a big New York City hotel, separated from his wife, became depressed, fell behind in his rent and was evicted. By 2001, the Moroccan immigrant was camping out in a park in Manhattan. Breathing problems made winters tough on the street, and he came here by bus one night in January 2005.”First day I woke up I’m surrounded by mountains,” he recalled. “I say, ‘OK, I have no problem here, but it’s so far away.”‘Isolation is a big complaint among homeless men used to urban hubbub. Richard Berlly said he considered staging a fistfight to get kicked out. Celso Trinidad said the 90-minute bus ride back to the city is tiring, so he stays in his room studying maps of the city, hoping to get another job driving a bus.”It’s not a fun place,” he said.Patrick Markee of the Coalition for the Homeless in New York said the big problem with LaGuardia is that it is so far from the city. That makes it difficult for the men to look for jobs and housing or take advantage of other services.

Though LaGuardia was started for the right reason, Markee said city leaders found the shelter especially useful when homelessness soared in the ’80s.”The city expanded Camp Laguardia and made it into the largest homeless shelter in New York in part to sort of keep the homeless out of sight of the general population,” Markee said. He commended Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s administration for “doing the right thing” by closing LaGuardia.With a homeless population estimated at 35,000, the city wants to spend LaGuardia’s $19 million budget on longer-term solutions such as subsidized housing with social services.Robert Hess, city commissioner of homeless services, said the goal is to reduce the shelter population by at least two-thirds by 2009.Hess said local opposition to the camp was also a factor in the decision to close the place. For decades, people have complained about LaGuardia men wandering into town, getting drunk, urinating in public and, once, slashing a woman.Michele Murphy, a mother of two children who lives next to the camp, said: “You’re afraid to have them play outside because you’re not sure.”Still, some men have turned themselves around at LaGuardia.Chakdouf has become a full-time liaison between homeless people and caseworkers. Berlly, 60, has come a full-fledged caseworker at LaGuardia.

A year ago, all of Camp LaGuardia’s beds were full. The last new arrival came in November, and the camp is now down to about 360 men. The last will leave by May 31.Orange County is buying the place for $8.5 million, perhaps for a senior-citizen dining center, voting machine storage, an office park or affordable housing for workers in the county, which is undergoing a housing boom.Remaining staff members like Berlly are looking for other jobs. He is still interested in social work.”I’m going to miss it,” he said. “It’s like a family, almost.”—

On the Net:New York City Department of Homeless Services:http://www.nyc.gov/html/dhs/html/pro...eetadult.shtml
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