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View Poll Results: Was killing Soleimani the right move?
Yes, it was the right move 59 55.14%
No, it's reckless 26 24.30%
I dont know 22 20.56%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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      01-08-2020, 12:26 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
...We, and I mean the human race in this case, are all better off without that monster.

Cheers, my friend-MK
Which I acknowledged in my very first post on the subject, yet some people still wanted to (intentionally?) misrepresent my position.

Ah, well. C'est la vie. Back to work...
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      01-08-2020, 12:27 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
I think you're missing the point. It's probably safe just to agree to disagree here.
No, I get the point trying to be made, I just don't agree with it. Why would his rank in Iran's military make any difference in the decision to eliminate him from the conflict. So we are not to target an enemy's command and control? Most military strategy is just that and there is are a lot of techniques, technologies, and systems developed just for that purpose.

He wasn't targeted because of his rank, or even being in the Iranian military. He was targeted because he was an effective asset of Iranian terrorist efforts.
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      01-08-2020, 12:32 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
No, I get the point trying to be made,
No, you really dont. Its about optics. While it makes perfect sense to me and you (and many others here) that he was a terrorist, and needed to be taken out. A lot of others could not see beyond his military rank. And, as was stated before, we need to be careful about being judge, jury, and executioner.
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      01-08-2020, 12:39 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Well, I'm far from convinced that those missiles will be the only response that the Iranian government will ultimately be responsible for, but I hope you're right.

I think that will be the only official response from Iran. How much unofficial shit was Soleimani and the Iranian military/government involved with, though?
I am sure you are aware that a lot of the "complications" are actually made up by unknown sources purposely and for reasons only they know - create fluctuation in markets, create conflicts, create conversation with foreign counterparts, etc...

Iran just simply does not have the capabilities to counter. People assume they have nothing to lose and worry they would go rouge (sending drones to attack US civilians, cyber attacks, and others). Remember, there are also very rich and famed Iranians and they do not want it to happen. They rely on assets the country provides to them to have such a life. Just like normal human beings, they also want to enjoy life.

Above also applies to any other countries such as NK.

It is a different age and there are a lot of richs and fames in every country and they do not want to mess with "war".
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      01-08-2020, 12:51 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
You can go fuck yourself.

I volunteered to wear the uniform in defense of this country.
Yeah, I misspoke, I should have asked are you taking the side that the Democrats are taking, which is actually more offensive to me. Just because you chose to wear a uniform doesn't mean others in this thread haven't worked as hard to defend this country in other ways. I know I have.

I'll leave it at that.
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      01-08-2020, 12:53 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Even those accused of HEINOUS war crimes in Germany were afforded time in The Hague. We have to be careful in assuming the role of judge, jury, and executioner.
Mr Trump is the Law.

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      01-08-2020, 01:00 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
No, you really dont. Its about optics. While it makes perfect sense to me and you (and many others here) that he was a terrorist, and needed to be taken out. A lot of others could not see beyond his military rank. And, as was stated before, we need to be careful about being judge, jury, and executioner.
Any sort of military aggression is an act of judge, jury, and executioner; that's the purpose of such action. The opposite is diplomacy and diplomatic resolution. And what are the optics? Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer use the event as political fodder? Iran is even more pissed at the US presence in the Middle East?

Like I stated in my first post, BFD, been hearing the same flag-burning shit from Iran for 40 years and the same political shit from Democrats for even longer. Sometimes leadership is ignoring the optics.
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      01-08-2020, 01:02 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
No, I get the point trying to be made, I just don't agree with it. Why would his rank in Iran's military make any difference in the decision to eliminate him from the conflict. So we are not to target an enemy's command and control? Most military strategy is just that and there is are a lot of techniques, technologies, and systems developed just for that purpose.

He wasn't targeted because of his rank, or even being in the Iranian military. He was targeted because he was an effective asset of Iranian terrorist efforts.
OK, then by that rationale, why not take out the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei? What's the difference? How about certain individuals in the Saudi royal family that we know have terrorist ties?
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      01-08-2020, 01:10 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
OK, then by that rationale, why not take out the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei? What's the difference? How about certain individuals in the Saudi royal family that we know have terrorist ties?
If anyone can answer you here, they are only providing their opinions and speculations. Not sure if that is what you want to hear.
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      01-08-2020, 01:14 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Do we have a civilized-world sanctioned list of terrorists? UN, MI-6, NATO? I honestly don't know. If so, and he is <now was> on the list, take the shot.

I'm simply worried about the US assuming the role of Earth-Central, for lack of a better term I can't put my finger on right now.
I already stated to you that the U.N. did in fact designate him a terrorist. Trump took the shot and hit the target, case closed right?

I wasn’t around this forum under the oboma years, you were it seems, how did you feel about him taking matters in his own hands and figuratively signing thousands of death warrants including signing off on wasting a couple of USA citizens? Nobody took more shots and stacked more of them then he did. He didn’t get prior approval from Congress for any of them.
Hypocrite dems are coming apart at the seams over one guy who is a proven terrorist and killed thousands of people and not just American servicemen. Impeachment ain’t working, his favorable numbers are improving, let’s try this they say.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...esidency-0812/
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      01-08-2020, 01:24 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
I already stated to you that the U.N. did in fact designate him a terrorist. Trump took the shot and hit the target, case closed right?

I wasnít around this forum under the oboma years, you were it seems, how did you feel about him taking matters in his own hands and figuratively signing thousands of death warrants including signing off on wasting a couple of USA citizens? Nobody took more shots and stacked more of them then he did. He didnít get prior approval from Congress for any of them.
Hypocrite dems are coming apart at the seams over one guy who is a proven terrorist and killed thousands of people and not just American servicemen. Impeachment ainít working, his favorable numbers are improving, letís try this they say.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...esidency-0812/


I missed that. I can't guarantee I read EVERY post, so bad on me. Shot taken, someone else moves up on the list. I might change my vote from I don't know.

To tell the truth, I was around on the list during the former administration's time, but I don't recall a specific incident like this, nor related thread. The POTUS doesn't change my concern. No, I wrote in a candidate in the last election.

I can't recall (but my memory is getting worse every day) seeing President Obama's actions of using drones on the evening news in such dramatic display. I heard some information about drone strikes, but didn't inform myself at the time.

Again, I was lacking as a world and US citizen, I hope I can be forgiven. No sarcasm intended.
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      01-08-2020, 01:30 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
OK, then by that rationale, why not take out the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei? What's the difference? How about certain individuals in the Saudi royal family that we know have terrorist ties?
Then that's going SkyNet where it sees all humans as its enemy and makes a Terminator that looks a lot like a former Governor of California.

But really, we've tried that a few times before in past Administrations and Trump has stated his doctrine is not nation building. Soleimani is not the leader of Iran.
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      01-08-2020, 01:55 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
OK, then by that rationale, why not take out the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei? What's the difference? How about certain individuals in the Saudi royal family that we know have terrorist ties?
In certain situations we might. We measure our risk/reward and assess how we should move forward.

Our intelligence community so far has seemed to be spot on for the risk/reward of removing Soleimani.

Do I beleive Iran will sponsor a terrorist attack in the future as a supposed act of revenge? Yes

Do I beleive that terrorist attack would happen with or without the killing of Soleimani? Yes
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      01-08-2020, 02:38 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Even those accused of HEINOUS war crimes in Germany were afforded time in The Hague. We have to be careful in assuming the role of judge, jury, and executioner.
Great post!!
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      01-08-2020, 03:31 PM   #103
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I think its likely that Iran knows the best way for the regime to survive is hope that trump loses the election. If he wins the Euroweenies and Iran will be mighty unhappy.
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      01-08-2020, 03:38 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post


I missed that. I can't guarantee I read EVERY post, so bad on me. Shot taken, someone else moves up on the list. I might change my vote from I don't know.

To tell the truth, I was around on the list during the former administration's time, but I don't recall a specific incident like this, nor related thread. The POTUS doesn't change my concern. No, I wrote in a candidate in the last election.

I can't recall (but my memory is getting worse every day) seeing President Obama's actions of using drones on the evening news in such dramatic display. I heard some information about drone strikes, but didn't inform myself at the time.

Again, I was lacking as a world and US citizen, I hope I can be forgiven. No sarcasm intended.
Lol. No worries, my wife rags on me all the time about forgetting stuff.
I do remember though seemed like all the time watching the evening news and some other vermin there getting obliterated by a cruise or hellfire. I got tired of saying thats an awful lot of tax dollars to eliminate one or a few bad guys( half kidding). Money well spent.
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      01-08-2020, 04:33 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Yeah, I misspoke, I should have asked are you taking the side that the Democrats are taking, which is actually more offensive to me. Just because you chose to wear a uniform doesn't mean others in this thread haven't worked as hard to defend this country in other ways. I know I have.

I'll leave it at that.
You just aren't smart enough to quit while you're behind, eh?

Why don't you tell Run Silent , SakhirM4 N54Yankee or some of the other combat vets/military retirees on this forum all about how you've "worked just as hard" as they have to defend our country.

Better yet, find a Marine who is getting divorced because he or she has spent 40+ of the last 60 mos deployed, or your nearest Purple Heart recipient how you've "worked just as hard" as they have defending our country.

How about you sing that song to a Gold Star family - I'm sure they'd love to hear all about it.

I'm done with you.

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      01-08-2020, 04:38 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd307 View Post
I am sure you are aware that a lot of the "complications" are actually made up by unknown sources purposely and for reasons only they know - create fluctuation in markets, create conflicts, create conversation with foreign counterparts, etc...
No, I'm not sure what you're referring to. From the sounds of it, those aren't the type of complications I'm talking about, however. I'm talking about international diplomacy, terrorist attacks, increased state-sponsored terror attacks and things of that nature.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bd307 View Post
Iran just simply does not have the capabilities to counter. People assume they have nothing to lose and worry they would go rouge (sending drones to attack US civilians, cyber attacks, and others). Remember, there are also very rich and famed Iranians and they do not want it to happen. They rely on assets the country provides to them to have such a life. Just like normal human beings, they also want to enjoy life.
To view Iran as helpless or impotent would be a very, very dangerous position to take, IMO. Would they win a war against us? No, absolutely not. That doesn't mean they are helpless or toothless.


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Originally Posted by bd307 View Post
It is a different age and there are a lot of richs and fames in every country and they do not want to mess with "war".
The "rich and famous" don't make those decisions in any country I can think of. The "rich and powerful" do, and they are the very last ones to feel any effects of a war, that much I can promise you.
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      01-08-2020, 04:43 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
You just aren't smart enough to quit while you're behind, eh?

Why don't you tell Run Silent , SakhirM4 N54Yankee or some of the other combat vets/military retirees on this forum all about how you've "worked just as hard" as they have to defend our country.

Better yet, find a Marine who is getting divorced because he or she has spent 40+ of the last 60 mos deployed, or your nearest Purple Heart recipient how you've "worked just as hard" as they have defending our country.

How about you sing that song to a Gold Star family - I'm sure they'd love to hear all about it.

I'm done with you.

I agree - I left pieces of myself overseas. I would think that perhaps I worked harder than the OP you are responding to as well. Just sayin.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
To view Iran as helpless or impotent would be a very, very dangerous position to take, IMO.
Agreed - they are far more powerful than many understand. To underestimate their ability to fight a war is detrimental to a winnable outcome.


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Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Would they win a war against us? No, absolutely not.
I disagree. If we wage war against Iran in the same fashion we have done in Afghanistan or perhaps even Iraq - we would lose.

Technically - we have lost both of those wars.
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      01-08-2020, 04:49 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
I agree - I left pieces of myself overseas. I would think that perhaps I worked harder than the OP you are responding to as well. Just sayin.....
I feel the same. You've worked much harder than me, a lowly NG member that never deployed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Agreed - they are far more powerful than many understand. To underestimate their ability to fight a war is detrimental to a winnable outcome.
Indeed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
I disagree. If we wage war against Iran in the same fashion we have done in Afghanistan or perhaps even Iraq - we would lose.

Technically - we have lost both of those wars.
Fair points. I was thinking more of a "gloves come off, no-kidding war" compared to the two most recent shit-fests we've been involved in, but you're absolutely correct.
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      01-08-2020, 05:02 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
No, I'm not sure what you're referring to. From the sounds of it, those aren't the type of complications I'm talking about, however. I'm talking about international diplomacy, terrorist attacks, increased state-sponsored terror attacks and things of that nature.
Yes I think we are talking about different things here so let's move on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
To view Iran as helpless or impotent would be a very, very dangerous position to take, IMO. Would they win a war against us? No, absolutely not. That doesn't mean they are helpless or toothless.


The "rich and famous" don't make those decisions in any country I can think of. The "rich and powerful" do, and they are the very last ones to feel any effects of a war, that much I can promise you.
My view on cause of war nowadays is much different than before. There are, indeed, a lot of influences by the rich and famous in any government and they would be creating/amending its preferences toward certain objectives for them both in small and large scale. I cannot produce proof and evidence, but I know that as a fact. Take it how you like.

I think the effects of a war that you were mentioning is on the negative side of it. A lot of people forget there are people who can be benefited from a war too.
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      01-08-2020, 05:02 PM   #110
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GENTLEMEN, you have the thanks of a grateful individual who was unable to offer his life for his country due to the diabeetus. I had to work form the safety of the home front to help ensure you had weapons that work.


I SO wanted to make a smart-ass remark, but it just isn't the right time/place
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