How do you keep your car clean?

matthew_hull · 02-22-2020, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auricom

Received a jug of XPEL No Rinse car wash after I had the X5 ceramic coated with XPEL Fusion Plus. Made for a quick no rinse car wash, 52 Fahrenheit weekend.

I did the same this morning. Except I used Optimum No Rinse (ONR).

Resjudicata · 02-22-2020, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorttt

A little bit off topic, is it a waste of money to even wrap the front and rear bumpers and hood for a lease vehicle? If it were a purchase, then wrapping would be a no brainer for me. My upcoming X6 will be my first lease.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorttt

A little bit off topic, is it a waste of money to even wrap the front and rear bumpers and hood for a lease vehicle? If it were a purchase, then wrapping would be a no brainer for me. My upcoming X6 will be my first lease.

Yes, unless you plan to take it to a track or gravel roads. Don't do it on a car you only plan to keep less than 3 years.

Resjudicata · 02-22-2020, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thereef510

not as extravagant as many of you. the local dealership offers free carwashes to bmw owners, so whenever its dirty we just go there. I have towels and microfiber cloths to clean the interior as an when there's dust or finger prints. and i take out the floor mats and hit it against the side of the wheels or something when it gets dirt or leaves lol that's it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorttt

A little bit off topic, is it a waste of money to even wrap the front and rear bumpers and hood for a lease vehicle? If it were a purchase, then wrapping would be a no brainer for me. My upcoming X6 will be my first lease.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thereef510

not as extravagant as many of you. the local dealership offers free carwashes to bmw owners, so whenever its dirty we just go there. I have towels and microfiber cloths to clean the interior as an when there's dust or finger prints. and i take out the floor mats and hit it against the side of the wheels or something when it gets dirt or leaves lol that's it.

Our local dealerships do car wash as well, but they aren't brushless. They are old fashioned auto car washes that look like they need repairs.

Trust me, save your time and paint. Unless yours does it by hand, and/or you want scratches and swirls; don't let a dealership wash your nice cars.

Find a mobile detailing service that is well regarded in your area (I know 2 in my local and I have both on my speed dial.). Call them and they will come to your house or work and clean your cars properly.

thereef510 · 02-23-2020, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

Our local dealerships do car wash as well, but they aren't brushless. They are old fashioned auto car washes that look like they need repairs.

Trust me, save your time and paint. Unless yours does it by hand, and/or you want scratches and swirls; don't let a dealership wash your nice cars.

Find a mobile detailing service that is well regarded in your area (I know 2 in my local and I have both on my speed dial.). Call them and they will come to your house or work and clean your cars properly.

like I said, I don't really care about the exterior. I have never cared (sorry!), because I feel its sorta silly to meticulously clean a car and then take it right back out into the elements for it to get dirty again. The interior is where I spend all of my time and I want that to be spotless, and I can control that and easily do it and it stays that way.

I've never been big on exterior appearance, so as long as there are no dirty water spots and stuff, I'm happy. I still don't really know what swirl marks are and that's okay. I'm not about to go overboard spending thousands more on paint protection and all that for a lease but thank you for the advice, although I think they hand wash it, I drove to the back area and I didn't see a car wash brush type set up, and whenever you drop off your car, it takes them a good 45 minutes to get it back to you (even if you're the first one there).

JSteinMD · 02-23-2020, 11:42 AM

I have had BSM on my X5's now for 9 straight years. I can tell you that you WILL get swirl marks if you let the dealer wash your car, or if you go through any automated car wash. I also would not recommend wiping the grime off the car, as that will likely have the same effect.

Hand wash is the only way to go if you truly care about your paint. We have Russell Speeder's here in CT, which have the best full hand wash service.

Wxnatscaps · 02-23-2020, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thereef510

like I said, I don't really care about the exterior. I have never cared (sorry!), because I feel its sorta silly to meticulously clean a car and then take it right back out into the elements for it to get dirty again. The interior is where I spend all of my time and I want that to be spotless, and I can control that and easily do it and it stays that way.

I've never been big on exterior appearance, so as long as there are no dirty water spots and stuff, I'm happy. I still don't really know what swirl marks are and that's okay. I'm not about to go overboard spending thousands more on paint protection and all that for a lease but thank you for the advice, although I think they hand wash it, I drove to the back area and I didn't see a car wash brush type set up, and whenever you drop off your car, it takes them a good 45 minutes to get it back to you (even if you're the first one there).

Same here. I’m more meticulous with the interior and like to keep that very clean. I didn’t bother doing ceramic/PPF as I found the cost not to be worth it when I haven’t been concerned with “paint swirls” in the past.

I take my car to the car wash if its really dirty or has droppings, etc on it. I just don’t have the time to wash it by hand weekly.

cesimeone · 02-23-2020, 06:12 PM

Alright.....this is sort of my cup of tea. Years and years of detailing on a professional level and years of BMW ownership. By no means am I god here but my opinion comes from experience....

If you REALLY care about the exterior of your car and enjoy detailing and hate swirl marks / RIDS / holograms.....I can write you a step by step, just ask, but I think I am a bit over the top when it comes to paint perfection. I recently did cumulatively....20 hours of paint leveling and correction on my new G05 which is BSM.

Living up North..in the winter is tough due to temps and weather condition. I am from NH. My take on it is....I support Larry from AMMO, he is an artist I really do support but STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM WATERLESS WASHES IMO! I never see them turn out well....yes I'll do them sometimes but only when the car is dusty. Waterless washing the wrath of winter away is a recipe for disaster if you care about the condition of your paint.

If you want to go the "waterless" route, this is what id do. Find yourself a do-it-yourself car wash...one of those high pressure wash bays....pump it full of quarters and high pressure wash from top to bottom focusing on the lower sections of the body panels, front bumper and rear gate due to station wagon effect. This effectively removes most of the "grit" that would damage your paintwork. THEN go for the waterless wash, panel by panel, good quality micro fiber towels and LOTS of them. This should do the trick for a satisfactory end result.

If you are not too keen on caring for the exterior and want to do the drive through wash my recommendation is only go to touch less washes, brush washes RUIN cars. Lots of my detailing clientele was to correct the damage the brush wash did to the paint work. In this case, YOU SHOULD GET A CERAMIC COATING, GTechniq CSL, Kamikaze, CQuartz....pick one, there's tons these days and tons of installers, all at different price points, coating hardnesses, longevities etc. The ceramic will really really impede any contamination from bonding to your paint which in the long run degrades and permanently damages it. Washing will be effortless, the drive thru wash might actually stand a chance at getting your car clean lol.

I could go on and on regarding this stuff, it was my business, job, source of income, life.....for many many years. Now I do it as a hobby, on my cars the wife's car my friends cars. My BSM is very very susceptible to washing induced marring even with my tedious 3 bucket, 2 hour long wash process I do weekly.... this sucks but it's the nature of soft black BMW paint. My dark sapphire metallic gray F15 doesn't show any of the marring at all, ever, in my 4 years of ownership. My mineral white 330i doesn't show any marring under my detail lights either. If you have carbon/black sapphire, go easy, if you look at it the wrong way it will show it.

I'm rambling now.....any questions, ask, I love this stuff

LexxM3 · 02-23-2020, 07:42 PM

I sense a wash-off coming on:

———————
cesimeone MystroX5
———————

cesimeone · 02-23-2020, 08:12 PM

I'll win....

MystroX5 · 02-23-2020, 09:15 PM

I totally agree with not using waterless wash spray with heavily soiled paint on a regular basis. It’s not really what it was designed to do. It’s a touch up wash with lightly dirty vehicles. Like getting caught in a quick rain shower.

The answer to the OP is there isn't any quick easy magic solution. Detailing a vehicle is a regular process that takes time and effort. A every day vehicle in the North East requires monitoring your paint and making planned washing’s that usually has you studying your weather app for days when the temp is slightly above freezing. Those with a garage have a huge advantage.

As for a top coat protective layer (wax vs ceramic) you have to decide on what the is most important, shine or endurance. There is no one perfect product that has a concours shine and ever lasting protection. A great show room shine is much different than a concours finish that requires hours of paint correction before you ever get into products. The reality is this level of finish isn’t for everyone and most will never ever put in the time and effort to get that last 2% of perfection. It’s that last 2% of perfection that requires the most time and will separate a podium win at Hershey verses a great showing at cars and coffee.

All paint colors get just as dirty and have micro scratches. Many of these micro scratches come from the wrong materials used to wipe, buff and dry the paint. A ocd owner that likes to constantly buff his paint with contaminated towels is his own worst enemy. This is where the detailing spray or waterless wash spray becomes a problem. If you don’t have a large supply of clean quality microfiber towels then you probably are stretching the towels you have too far and causing micro scratching toward the last few panels you clean. It’s not the product or the concept but the execution that fails.

You hear that old saying that “Black cars gets dirty too fast”. Obviously this isn’t true. It’s just darker colors are the most “honest” in displaying their condition. It’s also why the darker colors can be the most rewarding and most reflective when done correctly. Warning: the darker colors also show when you don’t detail correctly and short cuts will always be exposed over time.

I work with enough professional detailing companies that supply me their latest products to get feedback before it goes to market and usually the instructions for the consumer isn’t clear enough. Professional level of detailing products tend to “assume” the end user already knows the basic do’s and don’t’s. This is why you see rookies stumble the most because they never really learned the basics first. They think the pro level of products are a quick “do it all” for every scenario because they cost more.
I have a full reference library of automotive detailing books I started out with 30 years ago and I highly recommend a classic/basic book of detailing for reference for the owner that wants to start out the right way. A good example is “Ultimate Auto Detailing by David Jacobs” . Read the book before you experiment on your car. The products are newer today than what’s in the book but the basic techniques are accurate. It’s like everything else that it requires a bit of knowledge and practice before you get the results you are looking for. “There is NO shortcuts”

robby818 · 02-23-2020, 09:56 PM

I found ceramic coating to help reduce swirl marks but you still have to wash carefully, no automatic washes unless it's touchless.

Ceramic coatings cost about $1300 and you cannot polish it to remove swirl marks. The only way to fix ceramic is to get paint correction and re-application.

The other option is to pay for paint correction every 2-3 years. Cost is about $400. I've done ceramic in the past and i liked how it added a bit of gloss to the paint, but for my next BSM car i will probably just get it polished every 2 years.

NWAviator · 02-23-2020, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorttt

A little bit off topic, is it a waste of money to even wrap the front and rear bumpers and hood for a lease vehicle? If it were a purchase, then wrapping would be a no brainer for me. My upcoming X6 will be my first lease.

IMHO probably. I paid just under $1,000 to get those exact areas wrapped. I suppose it boils down to the cost of getting any rock chips repaired / what they might dock you on a lease return. It was a lot of money, but I plan to drive it forever (or until the next BMW model catches my wallet)

cesimeone · 02-23-2020, 11:46 PM

This is a good one!

As usual Mystro....props and well said. That book is a gem BTW! I agree 100%, many people have asked me for my products "I'll try it myself" and my answer is always no. A bit brash but almost like putting a gun in the hands of a person who doesn't know how to handle it. I have done quite a few concours level corrections and not one of them have ended with ceramic. Ceramic has its place! The initial result is incredible, gloss, depth, all of the above but this diminishes over time IMO. I currently have vehicles in the garage with ceramic and others with wax and others with synthetic sealants and others with wax AND synthetic sealants. They all look equally as glossy and deep, really the only thing that seems to change is bonding of contaminants and the hydrophobics. The ceramics seem to be bar none. That is the advantage among many disadvantages. Easier washes.....less drag over the substrate (this is really coating dependent) which in turn greatly reduces the risk of washing induced micro marring, a greatly reduced risk of contaminant bonding therefore making future exterior maintenance easier. The list goes on...

Then there are the cons. Initial cost is high and to achieve an outstanding finish, hours of paint correction are usually needed as the ceramic locks it all in for years! Repairing it....HA yea right, heavy heavy compounding or wet sanding and compounding are the only way a coating is coming off....I've been down this road and it's an unpleasant one. Coatings (again IMO) seem to be a little bit more susceptible to hard water deposits and staining when faced with enviro fall out such as sap or bird droppings. The water deposits aren't so bad, a mild MDO usually pulls these right off. Bird droppings have stained some of my coatings in the past and because I am OCD I've stripped that panel back and re-applied the coating. PITA!!!!! Everything has its place it really depends on what you are looking for. Will a coating scratch over time with contact washing? Yes....yes it will but that is the nature of the beast there isnt really a way around it. A coating will take on the characteristics of the paint it is applied too.

Like Mystro said so well, many people (myself included) do not want to spend the time to achieve the last 2% that will put you on the top step. A head turner at cars and coffee is good enough for the cars I drive on a regular basis. The last concours level resto I helped on was over 70 hours of color sanding and polishing. No thanks!

OP....what is it you are after? Just keep it tidy? Well get yourself on a seasonal detailing plan with a local provider. Every few months bring your pride and joy in for a proper decontamination and polish/wax. During the winter keep your visits to the TOUCHLESS car wash plentiful to maintain the vehicle.

What's the next step from there? More frequent details...maybe every 2 months. Same treatment but more frequent.

After that I'd say ceramic....again initial cost is high but the pain in the wallet will lessen over time as a ceramic maintenance is far easier than stripping everything back to apply a fresh coat of wax.

What is the holy grail.....well what I have done is XPel Ultimate PPF and Ceramic....that to me folks is the holy grail.

PS...I spent $2500 on PPF, that was a full front, rockers, mirrors and all piano black trim. 10 year warranty from my installer...anything I am unhappy with, it's covered. New piece goes on. My 330i was damaged at the dealer....it was sent to the BMW collision center. It turned out awesome...I didn't pay for it but I still saw the bill which was about $1500....for only a minor minor repair and re-spray. IMO PPF is weeeelllllll well worth it.

maczrool · 02-24-2020, 09:06 AM

We have rain basically 5 days out of every week all winter and spring long here which seems to always include Monday mornings. Since the only time I have to wash mine is the weekend, I don’t see the sense in spending 3 hours of my life washing and drying it only to have it erased Monday morning when I back out of the driveway. So for me I’m basically always driving a dirty car because a dry Monday here is rare indeed.

MystroX5 · 02-24-2020, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maczrool

We have rain basically 5 days out of every week all winter and spring long here which seems to always include Monday mornings. Since the only time I have to wash mine is the weekend, I don’t see the sense in spending 3 hours of my life washing and drying it only to have it erased Monday morning when I back out of the driveway. So for me I’m basically always driving a dirty car because a dry Monday here is rare indeed.

We have a pecking order in our fleet in how each car is maintained. You have to pick your battles.

All my vehicles are garage kept so they are a tier 1 for all the German cars, Motorcycles. My Power Wagon is a tier 2 which is really my everyday car. It is kept in really sharp looking condition for how it’s used but it also lives in a heated garage when not driven.
My wife’s cars which live outside have a much harder life. She has a new black Audi A4 and Jeep that she drives to work. Her Jeep is a total beater that gets very little love (tier 4) simply because it gets door dings at her many parking lots (she is a District Post Master) and the car lives outside. It is called on to take packages out to carriers in the worst weather in the remote mountains of PA.
It’s a Jeep and used as a Jeep. I will drive one of her cars if mine are clean and it’s raining.

You want to keep your luxury/sports cars nice, always have a beater car. That’s the dirty little secret when living in a snow state most everybody does once you start acquiring a few very nice cars in the collection.

Her Audi is her “good” car but still lives outside so there is only so much you are going to do other than regular wash and waxing. It’s a solid tier 3.
It gets driven to work when she wants but she will never upkeep that car like a garaged car. I will go over it in the summer and correct as much damage from the winter months. It always comes out really good but I detest the feeling of reconning a vehicle as opposed to detailing one. It’s easier to keep a car up than bring it back from abuse. It is what it is and keeps me working in the dirty levels of car care. For my sanity and hers, we have “my cars” and “her cars”. That way I don’t go berserk when she leaves coffee cups half filled with coffee in her cupholder over night.
Just buy your wife her own car as a gift and keep your cars separate. 25 years of a happy marriage has taught me that it is the best way if you can afford to do so.

Notice even new Audi’s get kicked out of the garages in my fleet of vehicles.

BeemerDreamerNYC · 02-24-2020, 11:06 AM

Thanks for all the feedback guys and tbh I didn’t realize / properly understand how deep one can get with these concepts! Considering it’s a leased car I’m not going to invest in doing the ceramic coating etc. I did take it to a car wash yesterday and it came out ok but with some noticeable swirls as have been mentioned here, and I did buy a towel when I was there to wipe up the residual water that was left over on the car. The car wash actually had two sections, one fully automatic and one a “hand wash” where it goes through on the same kind of conveyer belt but guys wash it by hand. I did the hand wash option, it was $20 so no biggie to repeat as much as needed other than I drove to queens :P

Does anyone have a recommendation for a touchless washing place around NYC? FWIW I did find some mobile washing services that have good reviews so maybe I’ll try that next time - bookings looked a bit hard to come by.

Aimster82 · 02-24-2020, 11:39 AM

If the temperature is above freezing I will go outside and hand wash my car. I like to use the hose to get rid of most of the dirt. I might wear dishwashing gloves

I only hand wash my black car. My white car goes to the car wash.

Now if it is freezing and I need to wash it... then I find a touchless car wash. They suck but it gets rid of the dirt. Then I come home and I wash with this:
https://www.amazon.com/Optimum-NR201...565373&sr=8-12

I have a lot of microfiber towels so if it gets dirty I switch it out. No need to dry.

02-23-2020, 11:42 AM	#27
JSteinMD Enlisted Member 27 Rep 38 Posts Drives: 2014 F15 X5 50i SAV Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: CT iTrader: (0)	Wash with care, buyer beware. I have had BSM on my X5's now for 9 straight years. I can tell you that you WILL get swirl marks if you let the dealer wash your car, or if you go through any automated car wash. I also would not recommend wiping the grime off the car, as that will likely have the same effect. Hand wash is the only way to go if you truly care about your paint. We have Russell Speeder's here in CT, which have the best full hand wash service.
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02-23-2020, 06:12 PM	#29
cesimeone Private 59 Rep 58 Posts Drives: 2020 X5 MSport, 2018 330i Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW 330i [0.00] 2020 BMW X5 40i [0.00]	Alright.....this is sort of my cup of tea. Years and years of detailing on a professional level and years of BMW ownership. By no means am I god here but my opinion comes from experience.... If you REALLY care about the exterior of your car and enjoy detailing and hate swirl marks / RIDS / holograms.....I can write you a step by step, just ask, but I think I am a bit over the top when it comes to paint perfection. I recently did cumulatively....20 hours of paint leveling and correction on my new G05 which is BSM. Living up North..in the winter is tough due to temps and weather condition. I am from NH. My take on it is....I support Larry from AMMO, he is an artist I really do support but STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM WATERLESS WASHES IMO! I never see them turn out well....yes I'll do them sometimes but only when the car is dusty. Waterless washing the wrath of winter away is a recipe for disaster if you care about the condition of your paint. If you want to go the "waterless" route, this is what id do. Find yourself a do-it-yourself car wash...one of those high pressure wash bays....pump it full of quarters and high pressure wash from top to bottom focusing on the lower sections of the body panels, front bumper and rear gate due to station wagon effect. This effectively removes most of the "grit" that would damage your paintwork. THEN go for the waterless wash, panel by panel, good quality micro fiber towels and LOTS of them. This should do the trick for a satisfactory end result. If you are not too keen on caring for the exterior and want to do the drive through wash my recommendation is only go to touch less washes, brush washes RUIN cars. Lots of my detailing clientele was to correct the damage the brush wash did to the paint work. In this case, YOU SHOULD GET A CERAMIC COATING, GTechniq CSL, Kamikaze, CQuartz....pick one, there's tons these days and tons of installers, all at different price points, coating hardnesses, longevities etc. The ceramic will really really impede any contamination from bonding to your paint which in the long run degrades and permanently damages it. Washing will be effortless, the drive thru wash might actually stand a chance at getting your car clean lol. I could go on and on regarding this stuff, it was my business, job, source of income, life.....for many many years. Now I do it as a hobby, on my cars the wife's car my friends cars. My BSM is very very susceptible to washing induced marring even with my tedious 3 bucket, 2 hour long wash process I do weekly.... this sucks but it's the nature of soft black BMW paint. My dark sapphire metallic gray F15 doesn't show any of the marring at all, ever, in my 4 years of ownership. My mineral white 330i doesn't show any marring under my detail lights either. If you have carbon/black sapphire, go easy, if you look at it the wrong way it will show it. I'm rambling now.....any questions, ask, I love this stuff __________________ -C
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02-23-2020, 07:42 PM	#30
LexxM3 Colonel 1698 Rep 2,609 Posts Drives: E46M3, G05X5 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Waterloo, Canada iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 X5 [0.00]	I sense a wash-off coming on: ——————— cesimeone MystroX5 ——————— __________________ G05 X5 x40i (04/2019 mfg, Canada) on S18A-19-11-540
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02-23-2020, 08:12 PM	#31
cesimeone Private 59 Rep 58 Posts Drives: 2020 X5 MSport, 2018 330i Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW 330i [0.00] 2020 BMW X5 40i [0.00]	I'll win.... __________________ -C
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02-23-2020, 09:15 PM	#32
MystroX5 Major General 6284 Rep 5,319 Posts Drives: 2020 X7 M50i/ 911 Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Central Pa. iTrader: (0)	I totally agree with not using waterless wash spray with heavily soiled paint on a regular basis. It’s not really what it was designed to do. It’s a touch up wash with lightly dirty vehicles. Like getting caught in a quick rain shower. The answer to the OP is there isn't any quick easy magic solution. Detailing a vehicle is a regular process that takes time and effort. A every day vehicle in the North East requires monitoring your paint and making planned washing’s that usually has you studying your weather app for days when the temp is slightly above freezing. Those with a garage have a huge advantage. As for a top coat protective layer (wax vs ceramic) you have to decide on what the is most important, shine or endurance. There is no one perfect product that has a concours shine and ever lasting protection. A great show room shine is much different than a concours finish that requires hours of paint correction before you ever get into products. The reality is this level of finish isn’t for everyone and most will never ever put in the time and effort to get that last 2% of perfection. It’s that last 2% of perfection that requires the most time and will separate a podium win at Hershey verses a great showing at cars and coffee. All paint colors get just as dirty and have micro scratches. Many of these micro scratches come from the wrong materials used to wipe, buff and dry the paint. A ocd owner that likes to constantly buff his paint with contaminated towels is his own worst enemy. This is where the detailing spray or waterless wash spray becomes a problem. If you don’t have a large supply of clean quality microfiber towels then you probably are stretching the towels you have too far and causing micro scratching toward the last few panels you clean. It’s not the product or the concept but the execution that fails. You hear that old saying that “Black cars gets dirty too fast”. Obviously this isn’t true. It’s just darker colors are the most “honest” in displaying their condition. It’s also why the darker colors can be the most rewarding and most reflective when done correctly. Warning: the darker colors also show when you don’t detail correctly and short cuts will always be exposed over time. I work with enough professional detailing companies that supply me their latest products to get feedback before it goes to market and usually the instructions for the consumer isn’t clear enough. Professional level of detailing products tend to “assume” the end user already knows the basic do’s and don’t’s. This is why you see rookies stumble the most because they never really learned the basics first. They think the pro level of products are a quick “do it all” for every scenario because they cost more. I have a full reference library of automotive detailing books I started out with 30 years ago and I highly recommend a classic/basic book of detailing for reference for the owner that wants to start out the right way. A good example is “Ultimate Auto Detailing by David Jacobs” . Read the book before you experiment on your car. The products are newer today than what’s in the book but the basic techniques are accurate. It’s like everything else that it requires a bit of knowledge and practice before you get the results you are looking for. “There is NO shortcuts” Last edited by MystroX5; 02-23-2020 at 09:32 PM..
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02-23-2020, 09:56 PM	#33
robby818 Lieutenant 265 Rep 479 Posts Drives: M2 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: L.A. iTrader: (0)	I found ceramic coating to help reduce swirl marks but you still have to wash carefully, no automatic washes unless it's touchless. Ceramic coatings cost about $1300 and you cannot polish it to remove swirl marks. The only way to fix ceramic is to get paint correction and re-application. The other option is to pay for paint correction every 2-3 years. Cost is about $400. I've done ceramic in the past and i liked how it added a bit of gloss to the paint, but for my next BSM car i will probably just get it polished every 2 years.
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02-23-2020, 11:46 PM	#35
cesimeone Private 59 Rep 58 Posts Drives: 2020 X5 MSport, 2018 330i Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW 330i [0.00] 2020 BMW X5 40i [0.00]	This is a good one! As usual Mystro....props and well said. That book is a gem BTW! I agree 100%, many people have asked me for my products "I'll try it myself" and my answer is always no. A bit brash but almost like putting a gun in the hands of a person who doesn't know how to handle it. I have done quite a few concours level corrections and not one of them have ended with ceramic. Ceramic has its place! The initial result is incredible, gloss, depth, all of the above but this diminishes over time IMO. I currently have vehicles in the garage with ceramic and others with wax and others with synthetic sealants and others with wax AND synthetic sealants. They all look equally as glossy and deep, really the only thing that seems to change is bonding of contaminants and the hydrophobics. The ceramics seem to be bar none. That is the advantage among many disadvantages. Easier washes.....less drag over the substrate (this is really coating dependent) which in turn greatly reduces the risk of washing induced micro marring, a greatly reduced risk of contaminant bonding therefore making future exterior maintenance easier. The list goes on... Then there are the cons. Initial cost is high and to achieve an outstanding finish, hours of paint correction are usually needed as the ceramic locks it all in for years! Repairing it....HA yea right, heavy heavy compounding or wet sanding and compounding are the only way a coating is coming off....I've been down this road and it's an unpleasant one. Coatings (again IMO) seem to be a little bit more susceptible to hard water deposits and staining when faced with enviro fall out such as sap or bird droppings. The water deposits aren't so bad, a mild MDO usually pulls these right off. Bird droppings have stained some of my coatings in the past and because I am OCD I've stripped that panel back and re-applied the coating. PITA!!!!! Everything has its place it really depends on what you are looking for. Will a coating scratch over time with contact washing? Yes....yes it will but that is the nature of the beast there isnt really a way around it. A coating will take on the characteristics of the paint it is applied too. Like Mystro said so well, many people (myself included) do not want to spend the time to achieve the last 2% that will put you on the top step. A head turner at cars and coffee is good enough for the cars I drive on a regular basis. The last concours level resto I helped on was over 70 hours of color sanding and polishing. No thanks! OP....what is it you are after? Just keep it tidy? Well get yourself on a seasonal detailing plan with a local provider. Every few months bring your pride and joy in for a proper decontamination and polish/wax. During the winter keep your visits to the TOUCHLESS car wash plentiful to maintain the vehicle. What's the next step from there? More frequent details...maybe every 2 months. Same treatment but more frequent. After that I'd say ceramic....again initial cost is high but the pain in the wallet will lessen over time as a ceramic maintenance is far easier than stripping everything back to apply a fresh coat of wax. What is the holy grail.....well what I have done is XPel Ultimate PPF and Ceramic....that to me folks is the holy grail. PS...I spent $2500 on PPF, that was a full front, rockers, mirrors and all piano black trim. 10 year warranty from my installer...anything I am unhappy with, it's covered. New piece goes on. My 330i was damaged at the dealer....it was sent to the BMW collision center. It turned out awesome...I didn't pay for it but I still saw the bill which was about $1500....for only a minor minor repair and re-spray. IMO PPF is weeeelllllll well worth it. __________________ -C
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02-24-2020, 09:06 AM	#36
maczrool Captain 154 Rep 602 Posts Drives: 22 M50i Carbon Black Join Date: May 2019 Location: Memphis iTrader: (0)	We have rain basically 5 days out of every week all winter and spring long here which seems to always include Monday mornings. Since the only time I have to wash mine is the weekend, I don’t see the sense in spending 3 hours of my life washing and drying it only to have it erased Monday morning when I back out of the driveway. So for me I’m basically always driving a dirty car because a dry Monday here is rare indeed.
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02-24-2020, 11:06 AM	#38
BeemerDreamerNYC Private First Class 30 Rep 116 Posts Drives: Bmw Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	Thanks for all the feedback guys and tbh I didn’t realize / properly understand how deep one can get with these concepts! Considering it’s a leased car I’m not going to invest in doing the ceramic coating etc. I did take it to a car wash yesterday and it came out ok but with some noticeable swirls as have been mentioned here, and I did buy a towel when I was there to wipe up the residual water that was left over on the car. The car wash actually had two sections, one fully automatic and one a “hand wash” where it goes through on the same kind of conveyer belt but guys wash it by hand. I did the hand wash option, it was $20 so no biggie to repeat as much as needed other than I drove to queens :P Does anyone have a recommendation for a touchless washing place around NYC? FWIW I did find some mobile washing services that have good reviews so maybe I’ll try that next time - bookings looked a bit hard to come by.
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02-24-2020, 11:39 AM	#39
Aimster82 Lieutenant 225 Rep 599 Posts Drives: 2018 X3 M40i 2019 BMW X5 5.0 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Virginia iTrader: (0)	If the temperature is above freezing I will go outside and hand wash my car. I like to use the hose to get rid of most of the dirt. I might wear dishwashing gloves I only hand wash my black car. My white car goes to the car wash. Now if it is freezing and I need to wash it... then I find a touchless car wash. They suck but it gets rid of the dirt. Then I come home and I wash with this: https://www.amazon.com/Optimum-NR201...565373&sr=8-12 I have a lot of microfiber towels so if it gets dirty I switch it out. No need to dry.
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