[Spencergnyc]

Hi everyone. Over the course of my ownership with this car, about 7 months, I’ve had a few instances where the little red car would pop up on my dash alerting me of a possible collision, but nothing would ever happen. Today though, I was on the highway doing about 80 in the leftmost lane with no shoulder, and the emergency braking randomly kicked in. The car in-front of me was maybe 15 car lengths away and it was night time. My car took me from 80MPH to about 20MPH in a matter of seconds at 11pm in the fast lane. I couldn’t do anything. I nearly got rear ended by a truck while desperately trying to accelerate, but of course the car thinks it knows better than me and limited my acceleration as it thought I was about to crash. I’m now deathly afraid to drive my $74,000 car, which is my only car.

[G07xG80]

This almost happened to me the other day as well. It was snowing pretty hard and I was going about 30-40 and all of a sudden with no cars ahead of me the Red Symbol flashed and went Away quickly.


That's really scary that you couldn't even accelerate. Glad you're ok!

[sigmabody]

I've had a couple of false-positive car detections as well, but thankfully nothing that dramatic.

I fear it will take a fairly significant class action lawsuit before the auto manufacturers actually fix the false positives, unfortunately. It's not technically too hard, but you have to program the system to not intervene unless it's "sure", and that decreases the chances that it might intervene in an actual emergency situation. So far all the auto manufacturers seem to have errored on the side of "make the car take action even if it's not sure", which is horrible, but until they lose a large lawsuit, that will probably be the default.

It reminds me of the also reasonably frequent false-positive lane corrections (which are bad), and the attention detection failures which cause disengages in the ETJA (frustrating, as they make the feature essentially useless, but not as dangerous). They all stem from the same design decision to take control away from the driver even if the system isn't sure what's going on.

The systems should default to "safe / no change" when they are unsure, not "swerve to the side", "slam on the brakes", or "disengage radar cruise control and lane keeping and cross your fingers".

To be fair, the converse is also somewhat related to the Tesla crashes on "auto-pilot", where the system isn't sure what's going on, and instead of slamming on the breaks, barrels into parked cars. I'm sure the manufacturers are thinking that slamming on the breaks is a "better" choice than that, but it's a false choice: Tesla's problem is magnified by their choice of deceptive marketing, and BMW has been clear that their systems are not fully autonomous. BMW can, and should, program their vehicles to just "keep on" or "soft disengage" when they are not sure, and their decision not to will probably end up killing someone.

[sigmabody]

Note: This also doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing proposition. BMW could "easily" enhance their software to just allow an option setting for when the car is not sure, potentially for each driver assistance setting. For instance:

When not sure if emergency braking required:
- Don't do anything
- Slam on brakes
- Lift accelerator if on cruise, nothing else

When not sure if lane correction is necessary:
- Don't do anything
- Jerk wheel to the side

When not sure if driver is paying attention during ETJA:
- Continue with ETJA
- Disengage and pray

That way the driver could set the response they want in those situations.

[sigmabody]

I can offer a slightly more humorous anecdote re the crappy emergency braking software, as a lighter side of the deadly serious issue that it is:

I've had my BMW for ~6 month now, and a couple months in I almost got stuck in my garage. The rear obstruction sensor had a false positive software issue, and slammed on the brakes, just as I was pulling out. Slow speed, but it (of course) wouldn't disengage either, because it was convinced something was there, even though there was nothing. I ended up having to restart the vehicle just to pull out of my garage.

Glad the OP is okay; hope I won't be the person who dies from this crappy software.

[bayarea328xit]

Originally Posted by Spencergnyc

...

Do you have a dash cam? If yes, save the clip that shows this behavior.

Regardless, get this documented as an issue with your dealer; have them look at the logs (and dash cam video, if available) to see if anything was captured by the system computer as to why the emergency brake was triggered.

Once you have all this information, log a complaint with NHTSA.

[mobilejo]

Originally Posted by sigmabody

I can offer a slightly more humorous anecdote re the crappy emergency braking software, as a lighter side of the deadly serious issue that it is:

I've had my BMW for ~6 month now, and a couple months in I almost got stuck in my garage. The rear obstruction sensor had a false positive software issue, and slammed on the brakes, just as I was pulling out. Slow speed, but it (of course) wouldn't disengage either, because it was convinced something was there, even though there was nothing. I ended up having to restart the vehicle just to pull out of my garage.

Glad the OP is okay; hope I won't be the person who dies from this crappy software.

The braking intervention when parking is a different system, and can at least be turned off. Unlike the emergency braking when actually driving at speed which we have no choice over.

I have more tolerance for crappy safety software thats optional, because I just switch it off.

[maher]

Originally Posted by sigmabody

I can offer a slightly more humorous anecdote re the crappy emergency braking software, as a lighter side of the deadly serious issue that it is:

I've had my BMW for ~6 month now, and a couple months in I almost got stuck in my garage. The rear obstruction sensor had a false positive software issue, and slammed on the brakes, just as I was pulling out. Slow speed, but it (of course) wouldn't disengage either, because it was convinced something was there, even though there was nothing. I ended up having to restart the vehicle just to pull out of my garage.

Glad the OP is okay; hope I won't be the person who dies from this crappy software.

This happens a lot to me while backing out on a sunny day from inside the garage.
Anyways, when the automatic braking is engaged, you get a small text box at the top of the screen which notifies you. You can actually click on that and then select "ignore for this time" or something of that sort. I tend to use that often.

[Al Pinã]

Hold down the active safety button on the dash and turn all that rubbish off.

[amc42]

Originally Posted by Spencergnyc

I nearly got rear ended by a truck while desperately trying to accelerate, but of course the car thinks it knows better than me and limited my acceleration as it thought I was about to crash.

I don't have my car yet and my current M5 is completely free of assistance systems, but I would expect that you can at least override if you accelerate beyond the kick down point of the pedal. Did that still not work or were you just too panicked to do that (which would be highly understandable when the situation is new)?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by amc42

I don't have my car yet and my current M5 is completely free of assistance systems, but I would expect that you can at least override if you accelerate beyond the kick down point of the pedal. Did that still not work or were you just too panicked to do that (which would be highly understandable when the situation is new)?

You are correct, it can be overridden. As soon as you press the accelerator pedal the braking will stop and you can accelerate. Sounds like it was a scary situation for the OP so the recollection of events may be a little different than what may have happened. Thankfully no accident occurred.

[hufington]

Originally Posted by bayarea328xit

Do you have a dash cam? If yes, save the clip that shows this behavior.

Regardless, get this documented as an issue with your dealer; have them look at the logs (and dash cam video, if available) to see if anything was captured by the system computer as to why the emergency brake was triggered.

Once you have all this information, log a complaint with NHTSA.

+1 on that.

This happened to me in my F15 at a similar situation on the highway but the difference was that it was daytime and I had several cars behind me traveling at the same speed. Somehow, we all were able to avoid an accident, but it felt really scary. Now, I have a dash cam that has a built in GPS and drive with most driver assist systems turned off.

Glad that you are OK.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by maher

This happens a lot to me while backing out on a sunny day from inside the garage.
Anyways, when the automatic braking is engaged, you get a small text box at the top of the screen which notifies you. You can actually click on that and then select "ignore for this time" or something of that sort. I tend to use that often.

what happened to the OP has nothing to do with PDC braking intervention. he was speeding along on the highway when the vehicle heavily applied the brakes on its own.

[Xeno]

OP, one of the three options for such warnings did you use early, late, or the middle option?

[Qsilver7]

What driver assist options were turned on? And where the ones turned on appropriate for the driving conditions? Are there other options for the programs that are turned on that could have caused a different reaction (like early/med/late warning)?

The “red car” icon has two conditions…the first is just a visual alert that a collision is possible (your supposed to increase distance or slow down)…the second is an acute warning (flashing icon along with an audible alert) that means a collision is eminent and immediate action needs to be taken (along with the electronic nannies kicking in). Do the owners know and understand these difference when the “red car” alert is seen?

[maher]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

what happened to the OP has nothing to do with PDC braking intervention. he was speeding along on the highway when the vehicle heavily applied the brakes on its own.

Yeah but I was replying to sigmabody's post, the one I had quoted.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by maher

Yeah but I was replying to sigmabody's post, the one I had quoted.

ah yes, my bad.

i turned off the PDC braking intervention a few days after taking ownership. it prevented me from maneuvering as I parked in my garage rear-first

[sigmabody]

Originally Posted by mobilejo

The braking intervention when parking is a different system, and can at least be turned off. Unlike the emergency braking when actually driving at speed which we have no choice over.

I have more tolerance for crappy safety software thats optional, because I just switch it off.

Agree, although this is a pet peeve, because it doesn't need to be an all-or-nothing proposition; that's what's frustrating.

For example, on my previous vehicle, I turned off the lane departure warning system, because it would swerve the car if I took and exit lane smoothly, rather than the hard angle turn the lines indicated (because lines are designed poorly). The bad software was so annoying that I disabled a potentially useful safety feature, which didn't need to happen if the software developers were just a little less bad in their implementation. All they needed to do was check if there was a vehicle/obstacle in the location where I was exceeding the lane, and disable the intervention if there was not. Instead, they made the software such that the customer disabled it, and rendered all the rest of the potential benefits worthless.

I want backup assistance: I want the vehicle to intervene if I'm tired, and I miss something, and I'm going to hit it. I don't want to have to disable it because the software developers coded it such that if it isn't sure what was there, it slams on the brakes. I want it to be "good", not disabled and useless because it's "bad".

This is doubly true for systems the driver cannot disable: it has to not have false positives, if the driver is still responsible for control of the vehicle*, imho.

* If/when BMW has legal responsibility for operation of the vehicle, false positives are more acceptable, because then there is no "driver responsible" default. They are still not desirable, but that's the case where making a decision is necessary in the uncertain case, because there isn't an external backup decision mechanism.

[Rondi]

Well, the red car flashing and audible warning have saved me from a collision just last week, where I took my eyes from the road ahead and was looking at phone numbers on the HUD…
I was the one engaging the breaks though, as I acted pretty fast, I was driving around 45 mph on a neighborhood street and two cars ahead one car was doing a right turn.

I had my X6 for 3 months, and I didn’t know it would engage the break by itself, it didn’t in this case

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by Spencergnyc

Today though, I was on the highway doing about 80 in the leftmost lane with no shoulder, and the emergency braking randomly kicked in.

Do you have Driver's Assistance Pro?

[jad03060]

Snow could be part of the OP problem...the camera could have become blocked. It shouldn't affect the radars (if you have that option) as much. I've been able to overcome the deceleration when this happens (not often). I tend to notice this most when someone cuts in front of me without leaving much room, the vehicle will slow rapidly to restore the preset gap. I just put some pressure on the accelerator and maintain my speed without problem.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Rondi

Well, the red car flashing and audible warning have saved me from a collision just last week, where I took my eyes from the road ahead and was looking at phone numbers on the HUD…
I was the one engaging the breaks though, as I acted pretty fast, I was driving around 45 mph on a neighborhood street and two cars ahead one car was doing a right turn.

I had my X6 for 3 months, and I didn’t know it would engage the break by itself, it didn’t in this case

It depends on the timing, conditions, vehicle equipment, etc. In your case you reacted to the warning so there was no need for it to brake. It preconditions the brakes so when you step on them it is braking hard, if you hadn't then it may have intervened.