[4ML INC]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

For those who are interested and maybe do not have the vehicle/manual yet, the discussion here is involving two different systems. Lane departure warning and the cruise control.

The Lane Departure warning is a safety system which can be configured to either provide steering wheel vibration or steering intervention when you are about to leave your lane. The system can also be set to Early, Medium or Reduced. The best result seems to be when set to Early since this provides the most gentle steering corrections.

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As a default, the Lane Departure is active unless you are using a cruise mode 2 or 3 which provides steering. In that case the Lane Departure system is deactivated. When active you will see the symbol on the left hand side of the IC.

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Assuming the Driving Assistance Professional package there are three different cruise modes available. Cruise mode 1 (Cruise with distance control), Cruise Mode 2 (Assisted Driving, Cruise with distance control and steering/lane control) and Cruise Mode 3 (Assisted Driving Plus, extended Traffic jam assist).

Cruise mode 1 is an adaptive cruise that will allow you to set a distance between your vehicle and a vehicle in front of you. Keep in mind that this is not a set distance, such as car length, but rather one that will vary based on speed. For example, the slower you are driving the closer the distance will be to the vehicle in front of you. When using this mode the lane departure system is active.
When active the symbol displayed will be:

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Cruise Mode 2 will provide the distance control as well as steering to keep you in the center of your lane. You need to be touching the steering wheel, at least every 10 seconds or so, or you will get a warning and if ignored the system will shut down. This system can be used on all road types, highway, urban, rural, etc. I try to use this mode as close to 100% of the time that I can. It provides stop and go so if you are in traffic it will slow down and stop according to the vehicle in front of you. It will then, as long as you are looking ahead, resume when the vehicle in front of you starts moving. When using this mode the Lane Departure system is not active. When active the symbol displayed will be:

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Cruise mode 3 is a total hands-free system that is available when certain conditions are met. In general these are that you are on a limited access highway, think Interstate, and you are going less than 40mph. When the conditions are met third cruise mode will be displayed and you can press the Mode button to activate it. Once activated the LEDs on the steering wheel will be constant green.

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In this mode you need to be paying attention and if you are not the system will shut down. Once the traffic goes above 40mph it will warn you and switch to Cruise Mode 2 and you will once again need to touch the steering wheel.



One thing everyone must keep in mind is that these are driver assistance and safety features. They are not autonomous driving systems. You need to be paying attention and understand that you are ultimately responsible for your vehicle. I have been using the systems for over 40k miles and think they do a very good job. They definitely provide a much safer and more relaxing driving experience. Are they perfect, of course not but I don't expect them to be given the current state of technology. The advice I can give is to keep using them and over time you should develop a sense of comfort with them. If you don't, then turn them off or don't use them, no use in you not enjoying your driving experience. Good luck to everyone and be safe.

Thank you thank you thank you. Appreciate all the work you put in here to help everyone.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

For those who are interested and maybe do not have the vehicle/manual yet, the discussion here is involving two different systems. Lane departure warning and the cruise control.

Cruise mode 3 is a total hands-free system that is available when certain conditions are met. In general these are that you are on a limited access highway, think Interstate, and you are going less than 40mph. When the conditions are met third cruise mode will be displayed and you can press the Mode button to activate it. Once activated the LEDs on the steering wheel will be constant green.

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I was stuck in traffic on I285, Atlanta's ring, for over three hours, bumper to bumper, no accidents, just normal Friday afternoon traffic. All I thought about was wanting Cruise Mode 3 To me, its worth every penny they charge for Extended Traffic Jam Assistant just to have Cruise Mode 3 : (currently the Driving Assistance Professional Package is $1,700 on 2022's)

[sigmabody]

Originally Posted by Marty in NY

I was stuck in traffic on I285, Atlanta's ring, for over three hours, bumper to bumper, no accidents, just normal Friday afternoon traffic. All I thought about was wanting Cruise Mode 3 To me, its worth every penny they charge for Extended Traffic Jam Assistant just to have Cruise Mode 3 : (currently the Driving Assistance Professional Package is $1,700 on 2022's)

FWIW, I'd echo the observation that someone else had on this forum: ETJA is basically the same as the radar guided cruise control, except you're trading contact with the steering wheel for monitoring that you are staring straight ahead. Personally, I find the former to be much more palatable and comfortable, especially if you have issues with the system being able to track your eyes (as I do), and it's much more comfortable for me personally to be able to continue to monitor the surrounding traffic and maintain situational awareness.

I have personally used the normal cruise control system in those situations, and it will bring the vehicle to a stop and restart, steer to keep in lane, etc. There doesn't appear to be a significant difference in behavior, in my experience, sans the method of attention monitoring, unless I'm missing something. ETJA is cool on paper, but in my testing and experience, due to the implementation, it's strictly worse functionally. Again, anecdotal, fwiw.

[Spencer518]

Originally Posted by sigmabody

...I have personally used the normal cruise control system in those situations, and it will bring the vehicle to a stop and restart, steer to keep in lane, etc. There doesn't appear to be a significant difference in behavior, in my experience, sans the method of attention monitoring, unless I'm missing something. ETJA is cool on paper, but in my testing and experience, due to the implementation, it's strictly worse functionally. Again, anecdotal, fwiw.

In my experience, the normal cruise won't start from a stop. You must tap the accelerator pedal. ETJA will start on its own.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Spencer518

In my experience, the normal cruise won't start from a stop. You must tap the accelerator pedal. ETJA will start on its own.

Make sure your steering wheel is not blocking the camera. It should start from a stop when the vehicle in front of you starts moving.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by Spencer518

In my experience, the normal cruise won't start from a stop. You must tap the accelerator pedal. ETJA will start on its own.

Right, and that's the point of ETJA. When its engaged, it takes the load off your arms, legs and ankle during prolonged traffic jams when you are only inching your way down the interstate in bumper to bumper traffic. Surely no one is naive enough to think they can do something else like read the newspaper, write emails, play a video game, etc...you still have to pay attention to all your surroundings and be ready to take over when needed or want to.

But from personal experience, when stuck in these situations for hours and hours, this feature can offer great relief.

[ConservativeConsumer]

Originally Posted by Marty in NY

... Surely no one is naive enough to think they can do something else like read the newspaper, write emails, play a video game, etc...

I don't know... I recall "The Simpson's" episode in which Homer was grilling pizza in an oven and eating it while driving. I am dreaming of doing it ever since.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by ConservativeConsumer

I don't know... I recall "The Simpson's" episode in which Homer was grilling pizza in an oven and eating it while driving. I am dreaming of doing it ever since.

I have a friend who eats oatmeal from a bowl while driving to work. Last I knew that took three hands

.

[hiki08]

Originally Posted by Marty in NY

I have a friend who eats oatmeal from a bowl while driving to work. Last I knew that took three hands

.

If not four!

I always get anxious when I'm driving towards a bunch of cars (parked or from the opposite direction) and expecting that i'd need to do a last minute swerve due to the bend in the road/obstacles. Always anxious the auto braking system would come on I'd be checking my rear view mirror and getting my feet ready to slam on the accelerator

The PDC does get quite a few false alarms too as I reverse into the driveway as it's usually a sharp 90 degree reverse turn into it with traffic cones on either side. More than once, pedestrians were stopped waiting for me to reverse and the car would suddenly slam on the brakes when nothing was actually in the way (it should've sensed the traffic cones from the rear flank detection). Then they'd be puzzled what I'm doing... how embarrassing. usually I'd step on the gas and the engine revs and reluctantly let's me continue...

Better safe than sorry in this case so I've kept them on...

[10101X5]

Originally Posted by hiki08

I always get anxious when I'm driving towards a bunch of cars (parked or from the opposite direction) and expecting that i'd need to do a last minute swerve due to the bend in the road/obstacles. Always anxious the auto braking system would come on I'd be checking my rear view mirror and getting my feet ready to slam on the accelerator

I'm not sure if I will ever feel comfortable with auto drive. I like adaptive cruising but that's probably how much I get comfortable with. I use Auto Hold and it feels good to get the foot off. It's nice but the anticipation/being paranoid is just... not good for my nerves. I too always have to look in the mirror to see who and how far. Sometimes I had to keep hitting the brake to get attention when stopped at the light.

[hiki08]

Originally Posted by 10101X5

I'm not sure if I will ever feel comfortable with auto drive. I like adaptive cruising but that's probably how much I get comfortable with. I use Auto Hold and it feels good to get the foot off. It's nice but the anticipation/being paranoid is just... not good for my nerves. I too always have to look in the mirror to see who and how far. Sometimes I had to keep hitting the brake to get attention when stopped at the light.

Yes! Very occasionally I'd use Auto Hold if I've driven for long hours that day. Even then, my feet would be hovering above the brakes just in case haha. That said, I've never had an issue with Auto Hold. And I like how the brake lights still stay on

[walkday]

Originally Posted by hiki08

Yes! Very occasionally I'd use Auto Hold if I've driven for long hours that day. Even then, my feet would be hovering above the brakes just in case haha. That said, I've never had an issue with Auto Hold. And I like how the brake lights still stay on

In Mode 3 with AutoHold on, do you have to tap the gas pedal after the car comes to a stop in traffic?

Also I thought it funny to mention that the new Defender has an AutoHold not connected to the brake lights. Land Rover overlooked it

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by walkday

In Mode 3 with AutoHold on, do you have to tap the gas pedal after the car comes to a stop in traffic?

No you don't since it is the cruise stopping the vehicle and not the driver using the brakes.

[cellarrat]

Regarding phantom braking, NHTSA has opened a preliminary investigation into sudden braking by Tesla cars equipped with an advanced driver-assistance system that the company calls Autopilot.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02...hantom-braking

[hiki08]

Originally Posted by walkday

In Mode 3 with AutoHold on, do you have to tap the gas pedal after the car comes to a stop in traffic?

Also I thought it funny to mention that the new Defender has an AutoHold not connected to the brake lights. Land Rover overlooked it

Guess Turtle answered it! I wouldn't know about Mode 3 since I don't have the stop start traffic driving option (whatever that's officially called..)

That's dangerous to not have the brake lights on the Defender! I would feel it makes a difference in safety when I'm seated in the car and stopped on the side of the road with auto-hold, or when I'm the first car at the traffic lights with no other car there, I think that extra bit of red light would reduce the likelihood of someone rear-ending me.

[sigmabody]

Originally Posted by hiki08

That's dangerous to not have the brake lights on the Defender! I would feel it makes a difference in safety when I'm seated in the car and stopped on the side of the road with auto-hold, or when I'm the first car at the traffic lights with no other car there, I think that extra bit of red light would reduce the likelihood of someone rear-ending me.

Aside: One of the nice things about a hybrid, imho, is that you can "ride" the brakes a little without worrying about additional wear on the pads (because of the initial regen). I do this a lot in freeway traffic, when I see something ahead which might be problematic, and I want to warn people behind me that I might be slowing in the near future, without really slowing much. It's a small thing, to be sure, but useful to be able to do for safety without worrying about wear.

Analogously, you can ride the brakes on a downhill without concern also in a hybrid, without worrying about heat and brake failure, as long as you're within the regen-only window. I use this quite a bit, and it's very counter to what I was taught way back in driver's training, for ICE only cars. There are a few meaningful driving "best practice" differences between ICE-only and hybrid/EV vehicles.

[jad03060]

What may not be clear to everyone is that the brakes in the X5 45e are brake by wire...IOW, the pedal doesn't directly apply hydraulic pressure to the brakes...the pedal is an input to the computer and it decides the balance between regenerative braking and when to pump up the hydraulics to actually apply the brakes maybe in combination with the regenerative braking.

[hiki08]

Originally Posted by sigmabody

Aside: One of the nice things about a hybrid, imho, is that you can "ride" the brakes a little without worrying about additional wear on the pads (because of the initial regen). I do this a lot in freeway traffic, when I see something ahead which might be problematic, and I want to warn people behind me that I might be slowing in the near future, without really slowing much. It's a small thing, to be sure, but useful to be able to do for safety without worrying about wear.

Analogously, you can ride the brakes on a downhill without concern also in a hybrid, without worrying about heat and brake failure, as long as you're within the regen-only window. I use this quite a bit, and it's very counter to what I was taught way back in driver's training, for ICE only cars. There are a few meaningful driving "best practice" differences between ICE-only and hybrid/EV vehicles.

That's very interesting to hear. It does sound handy. The world's moving to electric (which comes with it regenerative braking) and I'm almost certain my next car can benefit from what you have just shared

[sigmabody]

Originally Posted by jad03060

What may not be clear to everyone is that the brakes in the X5 45e are brake by wire...IOW, the pedal doesn't directly apply hydraulic pressure to the brakes...the pedal is an input to the computer and it decides the balance between regenerative braking and when to pump up the hydraulics to actually apply the brakes maybe in combination with the regenerative braking.

Yep; this is the case for all hybrid/electric vehicles as far as I know. The 45e has a pretty smooth implementation of the transition logic in my experience (it's like my 4th family hybrid, and I've driven a few more; the previous gen X5 PHEV was not as good with this, but current gen is smooth).

Another aside: Brake wear will generally also be significantly lower with hybrid/EV's, as the actual brake utilization is much less. I don't think we ever needed to change the pads on the previous hybrid we traded in for the X5, iirc, which was 10+ years old. Another small, but tangible, bonus.

[LarsOtium]

Originally Posted by sigmabody

Yep; this is the case for all hybrid/electric vehicles as far as I know. The 45e has a pretty smooth implementation of the transition logic in my experience (it's like my 4th family hybrid, and I've driven a few more; the previous gen X5 PHEV was not as good with this, but current gen is smooth).

Another aside: Brake wear will generally also be significantly lower with hybrid/EV's, as the actual brake utilization is much less. I don't think we ever needed to change the pads on the previous hybrid we traded in for the X5, iirc, which was 10+ years old. Another small, but tangible, bonus.

Personally my biggest complaint on X5 45e is the brake "feel". I find at real slow speeds (think parking space in/out) the brakes are way too grabby.

Though I think an equal complaint is that BMW in their infinite wisdom doesn’t allow sport settings of suspension or steering assist in Hybrid mode.

Two fairly major fails on BMW's part even if the Ultimate Driving Machine is more hype than reality these days…

[10101X5]

Originally Posted by LarsOtium

Personally my biggest complaint on X5 45e is the brake "feel". I find at real slow speeds (think parking space in/out) the brakes are way too grabby.
Two fairly major fails on BMW's part even if the Ultimate Driving Machine is more hype than reality these days…

How do you feel when you reach a complete stop? At the beginning my wife always looked at me when this happened. She kind of get used to it. It doesn't seem to bother most here. But I always feel that sudden complete stop regardless how gentle my foot is. I have a 4.0i btw. In any case, if we compare to other similar priced SUVs, I still think this is a winner for drivers.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by 10101X5

How do you feel when you reach a complete stop? At the beginning my wife always looked at me when this happened. She kind of get used to it. It doesn't seem to bother most here. But I always feel that sudden complete stop regardless how gentle my foot is. I have a 4.0i btw. In any case, if we compare to other similar priced SUVs, I still think this is a winner for drivers.

Do you have MSport brakes? Those can be more grabby than the regulars. The 45e has bigger brakes than the standard 40i so that may be the OPs case also.

As an aside, there is not . just 40i.