[1Boxer]

I can chime in with some info regarding PHEV vehicles and why some manufacturers are leaving them behind and focusing strictly on EV. I work for a Fleet and we were ordering 4 million dollars worth of Police vehicles and the majority of them were going to be hybrids, but after talking to our Ford rep, Ford has pushed the hybrids to the side and is focusing strictly on EVs. The reason Ford is doing this is because for each Diesel/Gas vehicle they produce, they have to make an EV in return, so all the resources that would have gone to producing PHEV's have been moved to producing strictly EV's. It's all due to regulations and they have no say in the matter, unless they all band together and put a stop to this nonsense. These regulations is not only hurting the dealers but also their precious environment, since now, instead of buying 50 PHEV Police vehicles, we are buying 50 gasoline powered ones, and we are not the only department that is being forced to do this. EV's are not ready for Police work.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by 1Boxer

The reason Ford is doing this is because for each Diesel/Gas vehicle they produce, they have to make an EV in return, so all the resources that would have gone to producing PHEV's have been moved to producing strictly EV's. It's all due to regulations and they have no say in the matter, unless they all band together and put a stop to this nonsense. These regulations is not only hurting the dealers but also their precious environment, since now, instead of buying 50 PHEV Police vehicles, we are buying 50 gasoline powered ones, and we are not the only department that is being forced to do this. EV's are not ready for Police work.

Unlikely that is the case. What regulations are causing that?

Ford is actually increasing PHEV production and cutting EV production.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ks-2023-09-13/

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...s/72279968007/

[djohn]

Not a lot of people know about how the CAFE standards work. The manufacturer has to produce vehicles that are fuel efficient, for the market segment that they sell in. You could sell all trucks - your target is much lower than a company that sells mostly cars. Nevertheless, the number goes up, each year, so you'd better make at least some hybrid trucks, right?

When a manufacturer claims that they *have* to produce EVs in order to meet the standards, what they're really saying is that they sure would like to sell a bunch of inefficient vehicles (be they trucks, SUVs, performance cars, whatever) that they can make great profit margins on. And they need big EV numbers to compensate for that.

[13 NF]

Last month I was told by my sales guy, an all new X5 is due out by end of the year, sales allocation was being held back by sales team.(UK)
I immediately thought ‘what BS’ but it’s a story getting traction?
Interesting ?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by djohn

Not a lot of people know about how the CAFE standards work. The manufacturer has to produce vehicles that are fuel efficient, for the market segment that they sell in. You could sell all trucks - your target is much lower than a company that sells mostly cars. Nevertheless, the number goes up, each year, so you'd better make at least some hybrid trucks, right?

When a manufacturer claims that they *have* to produce EVs in order to meet the standards, what they're really saying is that they sure would like to sell a bunch of inefficient vehicles (be they trucks, SUVs, performance cars, whatever) that they can make great profit margins on. And they need big EV numbers to compensate for that.

Perhaps the OP worded things wrong but I didn't take it as CAFE standards are what he is referring to. There would be no reason to not have PHEVs in that situation. Either way, we know what he was told is not accurate and not what Ford is doing.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by 13 NF

Last month I was told by my sales guy, an all new X5 is due out by end of the year, sales allocation was being held back by sales team.(UK)
I immediately thought ‘what BS’ but it’s a story getting traction?
Interesting ?

Definitely was BS, there are no plans for a new X5 this year.

[Mattl0806]

Originally Posted by 13 NF

Last month I was told by my sales guy, an all new X5 is due out by end of the year, sales allocation was being held back by sales team.(UK)
I immediately thought ‘what BS’ but it’s a story getting traction?
Interesting ?

Lol

[13 NF]

I know! But putting 2&2 together is there an all electric x5 on the current platform coming, I know this guy 20 years so why the BS

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by djohn

Not a lot of people know about how the CAFE standards work. The manufacturer has to produce vehicles that are fuel efficient, for the market segment that they sell in. You could sell all trucks - your target is much lower than a company that sells mostly cars. Nevertheless, the number goes up, each year, so you'd better make at least some hybrid trucks, right?

When a manufacturer claims that they *have* to produce EVs in order to meet the standards, what they're really saying is that they sure would like to sell a bunch of inefficient vehicles (be they trucks, SUVs, performance cars, whatever) that they can make great profit margins on. And they need big EV numbers to compensate for that.

There's also the BS that is the carbon credit market. If you don't meet the BS targets the EPA sets, you have to buy carbon credits from someone with excess ones. That's what largely funded all Tesla's r&d, capacity, etc and why the model 3 and model y undercut their competitors by so much money (that and Teslas are cheap garbage).

Hopefully the next administration reverses the carbon credit market and allows companies who had to buy them to seek refunds plus interest from companies they were forced to buy them from.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by 13 NF

I know! But putting 2&2 together is there an all electric x5 on the current platform coming, I know this guy 20 years so why the BS

No, there is no all electric G05 being planned. The G65 will have a BEV. He may not be BSing, just misinformed/drawing the wrong conclusion.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by 13 NF

I know! But putting 2&2 together is there an all electric x5 on the current platform coming, I know this guy 20 years so why the BS

Just because you've known him 20 years doesn't mean he hasn't been lying to you for 25 years.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by 13 NF

I know! But putting 2&2 together is there an all electric x5 on the current platform coming, I know this guy 20 years so why the BS

I agree with TurtleBoy , maybe just genuine misinformed, not intention to lie or BS.

[Aussiejem]

Next X5 is 2026, LCI will run through until then... typical BMW cycle. Next X3 will have a BEV on NK platform so guessing next X5 might have it's BEV on the NK too. Apparently the CLAR platform is staying for G65 X5 (the next 2026 X5). I think PHEV is a great transition option currently, especially if one has an EV as other car for around town stuff

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Aussiejem

Next X3 will have a BEV on NK platform so guessing next X5 might have it's BEV on the NK too. Apparently the CLAR platform is staying for G65 X5 (the next 2026 X5). I think PHEV is a great transition option currently, especially if one has an EV as other car for around town stuff

No, it will not be Neue Klasse. The G65 will be CLAR based with the ICE, PHEV and BEV sharing the same hardware.

[Aussiejem]

Oh so next X5 with BEV, or iX5, will not be on NK? Apparently next X3 is that's all

[X6ix GTA]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

There's also the BS that is the carbon credit market. If you don't meet the BS targets the EPA sets, you have to buy carbon credits from someone with excess ones. That's what largely funded all Tesla's r&d, capacity, etc and why the model 3 and model y undercut their competitors by so much money (that and Teslas are cheap garbage).

Hopefully the next administration reverses the carbon credit market and allows companies who had to buy them to seek refunds plus interest from companies they were forced to buy them from.

I'm going off topic here. Unfortunately, I don't think carbon credit markets are going away anytime soon. There has been strong growth. Airlines, commodities industries, autos are all taking part in it. I share the same view as you, it is BS and no different than greenwashing.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Aussiejem

Oh so next X5 with BEV, or iX5, will not be on NK? Apparently next X3 is that's all

Correct, the G65 iX5 will be CLAR based and the NA5 iX3 is Neue Klasse.

[Aussiejem]

👍

[1Boxer]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Unlikely that is the case. What regulations are causing that?

Ford is actually increasing PHEV production and cutting EV production.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ks-2023-09-13/

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...s/72279968007/

I don’t really care if you believe me or not but I just placed an order with Ford for $3 million dollars worth of Police PPV’s and was told the hybrid version of it is not available due to the reason I stated. This is directly from Ford, not a website or article you may have read. This was 50 Police Interceptors ranging from 57k for the 3.3L AWD and 61k for the 3.0L Ecoboost. No hybrids were available and no date was given for when they would be, but was given the explanation I wrote earlier why that’s the case. I’m just trying to share information I was provided with everyone from an actual source, that being Ford Motor Company.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by 1Boxer

I don’t really care if you believe me or not but I just placed an order with Ford for $3 million dollars worth of Police PPV’s and was told the hybrid version of it is not available due to the reason I stated. This is directly from Ford, not a website or article you may have read. This was 50 Police Interceptors ranging from 57k for the 3.3L AWD and 61k for the 3.0L Ecoboost. No hybrids were available and no date was given for when they would be, but was given the explanation I wrote earlier why that’s the case. I’m just trying to share information I was provided with everyone from an actual source, that being Ford Motor Company.

I don't doubt that is what you were told. Salespeople will often say anything whether true or not.

[johnonroad]

Originally Posted by 1Boxer

I don’t really care if you believe me or not but I just placed an order with Ford for $3 million dollars worth of Police PPV’s and was told the hybrid version of it is not available due to the reason I stated. This is directly from Ford, not a website or article you may have read. This was 50 Police Interceptors ranging from 57k for the 3.3L AWD and 61k for the 3.0L Ecoboost. No hybrids were available and no date was given for when they would be, but was given the explanation I wrote earlier why that’s the case. I’m just trying to share information I was provided with everyone from an actual source, that being Ford Motor Company.

Just attended a Ford event and heard Jim Farley talk about hybrids and how Ford is #3 in hybrids sales in the US. This is an important market that serves the customer base. Ford is investing in hybrids (including PHEV) as they see demand in this market. Jan sales had a large hybrid component. So clearly Ford is not cutting back on hybrids. John Lawler also talked about how EV investment will be cut back as they see the slope for EVs sales rising slower than expected.

Interesting Hybrid Sales are included in Ford Blue which is the ICE business.

Maybe police vehicles are different but Ford isn't cutting hybrid investment. But you'd think they make hybrid cars for police depts if they wanted them.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by johnonroad

Just attended a Ford event and heard Jim Farley talk about hybrids and how Ford is #3 in hybrids sales in the US. This is an important market that serves the customer base. Ford is investing in hybrids (including PHEV) as they see demand in this market. Jan sales had a large hybrid component. So clearly Ford is not cutting back on hybrids. John Lawler also talked about how EV investment will be cut back as they see the slope for EVs sales rising slower than expected.

Interesting Hybrid Sales are included in Ford Blue which is the ICE business.

Maybe police vehicles are different but Ford isn't cutting hybrid investment. But you'd think they make hybrid cars for police depts if they wanted them.

Ford should have canned Farley like 2 years ago. His poor leadership has taken Ford so far down the wrong road they might never recover.