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      08-31-2020, 01:37 PM   #1
Mani59
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Harry's garage - BMW X5 45e longterm test

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Excellent video by Harry.

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      08-31-2020, 02:57 PM   #2
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great stuff indeed - Thanks for sharing 😉 impressed by the consumption... over 50mpg on more than 1500miles is very good!
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      08-31-2020, 03:50 PM   #3
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Yes watched this a few days back. He does really Tate it highly and compares favourably against the RRS PHEV a few times which you know he is rooting for.
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      08-31-2020, 04:23 PM   #4
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His videos are exceptional. Really good style and down to earth real world explanations.
He did a good video about electric vehicles previously and felt this is the sort of information that shouldn't in a public information film ( those of us old enough to remember those!)
Feel governments and councils should watch before making their rules....

Bodes well for the 545e I suspect.
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      08-31-2020, 04:37 PM   #5
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Harry's videos are always are excellent. I really like the way in this video he explains the rationale of moving away from fully electric and how a PHEV would suit his families needs (and possibly others).
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      08-31-2020, 10:06 PM   #6
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I was shocked when rumors said Porsche would make the forthcoming Macan redesign a full EV. CUVs/SUVs are used for different purposes than most sedans, when tend to just be commuter cars. Families buy CUVs and take them on getaways outside the city, road trips, etc. It makes zero sense to completely kill off the ICE version.

I think there was enough negative feedback from customers to pressure them into offering a gas version alongside it at least for a few years, but from what I remember the gas version will just be the current model.

Regardless, for us enthusiasts a full-EV Macan would be a blow. My father bought a new Macan S about a year ago and I absolutely love rowing through my own gears, seeing those aggressive quad pipes, and listening to the exhaust note in that thing.
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      09-01-2020, 01:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Regardless, for us enthusiasts a full-EV Macan would be a blow. My father bought a new Macan S about a year ago and I absolutely love rowing through my own gears, seeing those aggressive quad pipes, and listening to the exhaust note in that thing.
I bought a Macan GTS about a year ago - the first time since 2002 I haven't had a BMW as my primary vehicle. The sound of the exhaust is probably one of the best aspects of owning this vehicle. If they move to pure electric it will be very tempting to buy a GTS or Turbo the last year they offer them with the ICE.

With that said, for our X5, we started with an F15 diesel in 2014, then an F15 PHEV in 2017, and now awaiting the G05 45e. For this vehicle the PHEV is absolutely ideal, for all of the reasons noted in the video. I loved getting 800-1000 miles on a tank with the 40e and still being able to drive 200 miles on a trip without having to think about where we'll recharge. It's the best of both worlds and with the 45e, even better.
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      09-01-2020, 02:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani59 View Post
Harry's videos are always are excellent. I really like the way in this video he explains the rationale of moving away from fully electric and how a PHEV would suit his families needs (and possibly others).
Probably overkill having a 45e though. A 30e would be enough for him.

He’s never put it in sport mode for goodness sake
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      09-01-2020, 02:34 AM   #9
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I think we may well look back in the future and see how battery electric cars are a niche and interim solution

They suit some people very well but I don't think work for the majority of people.
Governments are pushing us to use these but I'm not sure I have 100% faith in their decisions!

You may have heard of the case where in Australia someone bought a Nissan Leaf ( first generation ev ) and it got to about 7-8 years old and required a new battery. That came to A$ 33000 and effectively wrote off the car. So a car viewed as sustainable only lasted 7-8 years.

My view is that hydrogen fuel cells are the future but that's not to say there is still a lot to figure out and build out the infrastructure.

Cars are supposed to be convieninet and hunting around for a charger is not my idea of that.

The 45e engine does sound like a good idea. Best of both worlds, straight 6 and smooth refund drive around town
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      09-01-2020, 11:03 AM   #10
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Surely the same situation will arise as with the Australian Leaf when the 45e reaches 6 yrs old and the batteries are out of warranty (in Europe, I know it's 8 yrs in the US)? We only have 1 car, which has to fit a family of 5 (3 teenagers) and still be fun to drive, so an X5 fits the bill perfectly. Unfortunately new ones are beyond our means, normally we buy one at 3-4 yrs old and run it for 4 yrs. This means that however attractive the 45e is as a new buy, as a used buy it's not as appealing...I know that the X5 is in a higher price bracket, so the value will stay higher for longer, but as a used buy when the batteries are out of warranty you still stand a chance of losing a rather large amount overnight.
Certainly judging by the used prices of the 40e where I live, it doesn't look great.
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      09-01-2020, 11:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP View Post
I think we may well look back in the future and see how battery electric cars are a niche and interim solution

They suit some people very well but I don't think work for the majority of people.
Governments are pushing us to use these but I'm not sure I have 100% faith in their decisions!

You may have heard of the case where in Australia someone bought a Nissan Leaf ( first generation ev ) and it got to about 7-8 years old and required a new battery. That came to A$ 33000 and effectively wrote off the car. So a car viewed as sustainable only lasted 7-8 years.

My view is that hydrogen fuel cells are the future but that's not to say there is still a lot to figure out and build out the infrastructure.

Cars are supposed to be convieninet and hunting around for a charger is not my idea of that.

The 45e engine does sound like a good idea. Best of both worlds, straight 6 and smooth refund drive around town
I’m sorry, but how will you obtain all that hydrogen to fuel the millions of cars? Will you burn coal or natural gas in an electric power plant to extract it from water? Or will you decompose some fossil fuel to get at it?

This isn’t about the infrastructure, it is about production. Electrolysis is not very efficient, you are consuming electricity to separate hydrogen from water, only to recombine it back into water - essentially hydrogen is used as an energy accumulator.

So, you would need to fix the electrical energy production first before this makes sense. But at that point it may still make more sense to use batteries for energy storage, since the infrastructure is so much easier to build, and safer than hydrogen.


Additionally, I’d like to point out that battery technology is evolving far faster than the ICE ever did. If you were to drop in on Mr. Karl Benz’s very crude first automotive effort to comment on the efficiency and long term sustainability, you would conclude it will never be a viable proposition. Give electric cars another generation, and they will have close to the longevity offered by the ICE counterparts.

I’m a petrolhead at heart, but still rightfully concluded that an electric only car would not suit my family needs at this point in time. But in 2-3 years when the time comes to replace the X3, I’ll most likely go electric.
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      09-01-2020, 11:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Regardless, for us enthusiasts a full-EV Macan would be a blow. My father bought a new Macan S about a year ago and I absolutely love rowing through my own gears, seeing those aggressive quad pipes, and listening to the exhaust note in that thing.
You mean, you love flicking your pinkie on the paddleshift? Rowing your own gears implies a manual transmission I think.

Regardless, the Macan is mostly bought by soccer moms doing the local school runs and book club sorties, not by adventurous males carrying kayaking gear to Niagara Falls. The ICE demise in that model will be welcomed with open wallets by that demographic.
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      09-01-2020, 12:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
You mean, you love flicking your pinkie on the paddleshift? Rowing your own gears implies a manual transmission I think.

Regardless, the Macan is mostly bought by soccer moms doing the local school runs and book club sorties, not by adventurous males carrying kayaking gear to Niagara Falls. The ICE demise in that model will be welcomed with open wallets by that demographic.
You know what I'm getting at...one can toss the physical shifter to the left and row throw gears yourself. Much more engaging than not being able to change your gears at all in an EV.

Soccer moms still want to take their families on road trips. Even with Tesla's extensive supercharger network, it is still a headache for people to travel and stop every several hours. It's exponentially more inconvenient to charge non-Tesla EVs.
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      09-01-2020, 03:52 PM   #14
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This vehicle might be a good fit for my family, as an alternative to the the diesel X5
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      09-01-2020, 03:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
I’m sorry, but how will you obtain all that hydrogen to fuel the millions of cars? Will you burn coal or natural gas in an electric power plant to extract it from water? Or will you decompose some fossil fuel to get at it?
There is a really interesting/geeky bit of science about producing hydrogen, from a BBC Radio program called Costing The Earth.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0002z43

If you can listen to it, then 20 minutes on is where the interesting bit comes in. If you can't listen, then my low-brow summary:

- Produce ammonia by using a sort of fuel cell that takes in regular air at ambient temp, using the nitrogen in the air. Do some clever physics/chemistry that produces ammonia, with a bit of electricity (solar).
- Ammonia is made of 3 atoms of hydrogen and 1 atom of nitrogen. Is nice and stable and is easy to transport as a liquid, which is obviously how the world is geared to shipping it's energy around the world.
- At the point when you need to get to the hydrogen, pump it into a hydrogen cracker, which is supposedly something relatively small and cheap
- Use your hydrogen as needed :-), maybe just as you would with a current fuel pump.

Bit more to it than that, and not yet ready for worldwide consumption, but I agree with the earlier poster that lumping all this metal and other heavy stuff around to store electricity, is just a stop gap.

Cool stuff, I think
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      09-01-2020, 09:15 PM   #16
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Well,

I have always driven a V8s (since 1995), currently drive a C7 Stingray and a 550ix. I drive 20K miles / year, 30mile one way commute. I was looking at the M5, M550, and ended up ordering a X5 45e this week. I don't know why, I did not start out thinking I would buy a hybrid, but man this truck just checks a lot of boxes. What is the 3 year residual on the truck currently? I ordered a fairly well equipped X5, MSRP at 83K, got 7% off, $3K finance, then take the 7500 off that, leaving me at about 16K off sticker, which looking at the tech in this truck, IMO is a hell of a bargain. I would think the biggest question on the 5-10 year horizon is what will the batteries cost to replace, no? Does anyone have info on that?

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      09-01-2020, 10:05 PM   #17
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Great video, enjoyed it. But... I couldn't help but notice the rear seats

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      09-02-2020, 03:31 AM   #18
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So wrinkly! Is this caused by the high voltage in the PHEV battery right underneath?
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      09-02-2020, 06:24 AM   #19
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Wrinkle gate again 😜😉
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      09-02-2020, 08:22 AM   #20
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Maybe the back seats have seen some “action”, when his son takes the car...
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      09-02-2020, 08:38 AM   #21
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So wrinkly! Is this caused by the high voltage in the PHEV battery right underneath?
Hey Caramel, you trying to get me going again about wrinkles?
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      09-02-2020, 09:47 AM   #22
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I'm ready to pull the trigger on one. I just need a local dealer to have one that I can test drive. So far, the only ones that have come in have been custom orders.
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