[Mattl0806]

Originally Posted by FastMarkA

Almost certainly you'll still be able to enjoy all 483hp after a 60 mile highway cruise, or even a 200 mile highway cruise, on those back roads.

It's easy to think in black and white when it comes to a PHEV's operation, but there's a lot of intelligence built into the system so *both* engines are available to propel the car in nearly all circumstances.

Even when the battery range has shown "—-" on my 45e and 50e, I've yet to experience a situation where only the ICE moves the car when the pedal is pressed to the floor. It's a very smart system.

Thanks appreciate you sharing your experience.

Physics / engineering typically allows you to think in black and white hence why it’s so confusing / concerning for some.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by Mattl0806

…
Physics / engineering typically allows you to think in black and white hence why it’s so confusing / concerning for some.

similar background for a bit (physics/biomedical engineering) but switched to nursing route (anesthesia) a couple years later. i still like to analyze and scrutinize the operational details of everything lol

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

similar background for a bit (physics/biomedical engineering) but switched to nursing route (anesthesia) a couple years later. i like to analyze and scrutinize the operational details of everything lol

CRNA?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by eluded

I wish I could find good documentation on the differences between this motor and the B58 in the new 40i. I've watched videos where they claim some parts are upgraded to withstand being abused when not at peak temps. I assume this is why the motor is "detuned", ready for cold motor abuse.

That is a myth that many have, and still are, spreading around. There is nothing different in the engines between the two.

[jad03060]

The road is rarely perfectly flat and you won't be able to drive at a perfectly stable speed while the load remains identical...so, there will be opportunities for regeneration to occur in any mode of operation. IOW, while the ICE can cause the EV motor to turn into an alternator, it will occur without needing the ICE to provide that power, at least on occasion, allowing the batteries to recoup some energy. Some modes are more aggressive at it as are some much less likely to enable regeneration (Eco Pro mode primarily coasts when it can and doesn't engage regeneration except in certain situations like hitting the brakes or detecting a vehicle in front of it). While sport tries to maintain a larger buffer expecting you to be calling on full combined ICE plus EV power which obviously requires some battery capacity to be available.

While the guts of the 40i and 50e may be identical, at least with the 45e, they said that some of the hardware does differ. There's a sticky at the top of the forum that has some training details that make some interesting reading. SOme of it is related to starting the engine. THe PHEV has two modes, traditional starter motor and tow-start mode...each puts different loads on things, and the PHEV beefs up the related components.

I haven't checked the LCI 40i and 50e's gear ratios, but the power peak and gear ratios did differ pre-LCI, and probably still do on the LCI. With the higher power available on the LCI, it can turn a little slower which helps with efficiency.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The road is rarely perfectly flat and you won't be able to drive at a perfectly stable speed while the load remains identical...so, there will be opportunities for regeneration to occur in any mode of operation. IOW, while the ICE can cause the EV motor to turn into an alternator, it will occur without needing the ICE to provide that power, at least on occasion, allowing the batteries to recoup some energy. Some modes are more aggressive at it as are some much less likely to enable regeneration (Eco Pro mode primarily coasts when it can and doesn't engage regeneration except in certain situations like hitting the brakes or detecting a vehicle in front of it). While sport tries to maintain a larger buffer expecting you to be calling on full combined ICE plus EV power which obviously requires some battery capacity to be available.

While the guts of the 40i and 50e may be identical, at least with the 45e, they said that some of the hardware does differ. There's a sticky at the top of the forum that has some training details that make some interesting reading. SOme of it is related to starting the engine. THe PHEV has two modes, traditional starter motor and tow-start mode...each puts different loads on things, and the PHEV beefs up the related components.

I haven't checked the LCI 40i and 50e's gear ratios, but the power peak and gear ratios did differ pre-LCI, and probably still do on the LCI. With the higher power available on the LCI, it can turn a little slower which helps with efficiency.

Still keep giving out known, proven incorrect info. what is the purpose of this?

[eluded]

Because it's true? The 50E internals have some differences. Gear ratios are different between 40i and 50e

50E
Automatic Gear Ratios – I / II / III
5.5 / 3.52 / 2.2
Automatic Gear Ratios – IV / V / VI
1.72 / 1.3 / 1.0
Automatic Gear Ratios – VII / VIII / R
0.83 / 0.64 / 4.45
Automatic Gear Ratios - Final Drive Ratio
3.64

LCI 40i
Automatic Gear Ratios - I / II / III
5.25 / 3.36 / 2.17
Automatic Gear Ratios - IV / V / VI
1.72 / 1.32 / 1.0
Automatic Gear Ratios - VII / VIII / R
0.82 / 0.64 / 3.71
Automatic Gear Ratios - Final Drive Ratio
3.39

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Still keep giving out known, proven incorrect info. what is the purpose of this?

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by eluded

Because it's true? The 50E internals have some differences. Gear ratios are different between 40i and 50e

50E
Automatic Gear Ratios – I / II / III
5.5 / 3.52 / 2.2
Automatic Gear Ratios – IV / V / VI
1.72 / 1.3 / 1.0
Automatic Gear Ratios – VII / VIII / R
0.83 / 0.64 / 4.45
Automatic Gear Ratios - Final Drive Ratio
3.64

LCI 40i
Automatic Gear Ratios - I / II / III
5.25 / 3.36 / 2.17
Automatic Gear Ratios - IV / V / VI
1.72 / 1.32 / 1.0
Automatic Gear Ratios - VII / VIII / R
0.82 / 0.64 / 3.71
Automatic Gear Ratios - Final Drive Ratio
3.39

First, please tell me which parts of the internal are different? And if internals are different, why isn't the engine given a different code name. And how do these internals are considered "beefed up"? How are these internal is better for cold abuse, which you stated before?

Second, gear ratio I posted many time. They are different, but it is NOT the point. He said 45e will rev low and more efficient. Please read the entire part I highlighted, comprehend it, then give a full context response. The fact is 45e has shorter gears at cruising speed by as much as 15%, it will rev higher and less efficient on highway. Your 50E gears numbers show the same thing, not as severely deficit as 45e, but still shorter than 40i. Tell me which car rev higher at cruising?

[jad03060]

From the training documents listed at the top of the forum...

G05 PHEV Complete Vehicle.
2. Powertrain.

The most extensive changes compared to the conventional B58TU engine are:
• Simplified belt drive
• Vibration damper with rigid belt pulley
• Mechanical vacuum pump (despite DSCi brake system)
• Improved air intake system with resonator
• Starter motor adapted to the more frequent starting operations
• Wiring harness adapted to the engine peripherals.

Note it says the most extensive changes, implying there are other changes as well.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by jad03060

From the training documents listed at the top of the forum...

G05 PHEV Complete Vehicle.
2. Powertrain.

The most extensive changes compared to the conventional B58TU engine are:
• Simplified belt drive
• Vibration damper with rigid belt pulley
• Mechanical vacuum pump (despite DSCi brake system)
• Improved air intake system with resonator
• Starter motor adapted to the more frequent starting operations
• Wiring harness adapted to the engine peripherals.

Note it says the most extensive changes, implying there are other changes as well.

Just to be clear, none are internal components of the engine. None of these make it "beefed up". It is just different because the car is different. Not better, not worse, not "beefier" not weaker.

So again, what is "beefed up"?

[jad03060]

I look at the engine as all of the components inside the block and the stuff attached to it that make it able to function. With that in mind, it is beefed up. The starter motor and the dampener are designed to handle more frequent starts, and from being 'tow-started'. Essential for the operation of the vehicle as a PHEV. What that document does not show is what they also tweaked inside. Changes made to make the PHEV's engine more reliable. I doubt they made things weaker in the process.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by jad03060

I look at the engine as all of the components inside the block and the stuff attached to it that make it able to function. With that in mind, it is beefed up. The starter motor and the dampener are designed to handle more frequent starts, and from being 'tow-started'. Essential for the operation of the vehicle as a PHEV. What that document does not show is what they also tweaked inside. Changes made to make the PHEV's engine more reliable. I doubt they made things weaker in the process.

So to you, different = beefed up?

Using your logic, turn it around, 40i has many components different than 45e in order for 40i to function as well, so 40i engine must also be more "beefed up", right? The only thing that says remotely improvement is "starter motor" to accommodate more frequency start. What else? And it is not part of the engine.

Do you even know that dampener is? There is a technical name for it. It is not to counter start or the engine. It is to counter something else. You should go look that up. And BMW itself didn't claim it is beefed up. It just says it is rigid. If you can learn why this dampener is needed in any car, you should know why this change is needed.

And let me also ask, they tweak in side according to who? you? And tell me what components they can possibly tweak inside to make it more beefed up yet BMW didn't create a new engine code for it. It is not like we don't have enough version of B58.

But I am still not sure we are talking logic and technical here. You need to rationalize 45e is the best car existed, you just need to believe that. Please don't make up fake info. That is including 45e gear ratio. It is straight documentation by BMW and ZF. 45e has shorter cruising gears. Why lie and keep lying about it? Do you thin no one bother to spend 2 minutes to look it up?

[jad03060]

The shock load of tow-starting an engine up to what might be several thousand RPMs will be much higher than starting on to idle with the starter motor. At least to me, that implies the dampener would have to be able to absorb a larger shock...thus, heavier duty.

We may not ever know the full differences between the two implementations of the engines in the differing models, as BMW has no responsibility to expose all of their development decisions to the public.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The shock load of tow-starting an engine up to what might be several thousand RPMs will be much higher than starting on to idle with the starter motor. At least to me, that implies the dampener would have to be able to absorb a larger shock...thus, heavier duty.

We may not ever know the full differences between the two implementations of the engines in the differing models, as BMW has no responsibility to expose all of their development decisions to the public.

Completely non sense as usual

[crackerjack15]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Completely non sense as usual

Your not really adding any meaningful information yourself. This thread is like CNN vs Fox news. Sheeesh.

[eluded]

Agreed until we see the spec or technical documentation on the new TU2 motor we can only drive off of rumors that others have said, some on YouTube with tons of followers.

Once parts are available we can also look at them for differences.

Originally Posted by crackerjack15

Your not really adding any meaningful information yourself. This thread is like CNN vs Fox news. Sheeesh.

[crackerjack15]

Originally Posted by eluded

Agreed until we see the spec or technical documentation on the new TU2 motor we can only drive off of rumors that others have said, some on YouTube with tons of followers.

Once parts are available we can also look at them for differences.

Yes, I've been trying to find out verifiable info, but there does seem to be a lot of misinformation. Even on bmw's website it misquotes the 50e electric motor hp in one of their paragraphs.

Even the individuals torque values from ice/electric do not add up to the total quoted. Maybe the electric motor with xx torque by itself, throttles power when running both motors combined?

[jad03060]

EV and ICE motors develop torque at different RPMs...an EV motor typically develops maximum torque from stopped, and ICE at much higher levels. You'd need to put the thing on a dynamometer to measure total output and track the torque, but that still wouldn't tell you the individual motors' power. That would be harder to figure out without some other tools.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by crackerjack15

Your not really adding any meaningful information yourself. This thread is like CNN vs Fox news. Sheeesh.

yeah, I got carried way. I just didn't like obvious fake information being pass around over and over again by the same guy. But it is free public forum, anyone can have their ways. I think most people knows. But yea, I am done.

[crackerjack15]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

yeah, I got carried way. I just didn't like obvious fake information being pass around over and over again by the same guy. But it is free public forum, anyone can have their ways. I think most people knows. But yea, I am done.

I get it. People do like to give information, without any references, and after a while if not confronted with the misinformation, they start to believe they are correct.

Sort of a conformation bias.

[cobramite]

A "beefed up" B58 is an S58 and that is one bad ass engine for sure.