[fstezaws]

This shows that its not really an orientation issue as both ends are "sealed". Whether or not they are water proof remains the question, but its not some open-ended breather tube.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

This shows that its not really an orientation issue as both ends are "sealed". Whether or not they are water proof remains the question, but its not some open-ended breather tube.

Right, the other end connects into something, possible the tranny sump area. That tube is securely "snapped" into the Xfer case and has an o-ring for sealing. The other end is securely attached, via a clamp so its not going to move and no one will convince me that any amount of water, even under some pressure from the tires slamming into a puddle, would disconnect that tube. Remember there is also a protective belly pan below it. If that were the case, there would be thousands and thousands of reports all over the world. Let's not forget, there are vented Xfer cases on all X drive cars, not just the X5.

Since at this point I have not read a statement by your dealer as to how water got into the Xfer case, my assumption is that either the factory did not properly seat that vent tube or someone pulled it out and did not properly snap it back in. It might also be possible that the factory did not install the o-ring on the end of the vent tube...only your dealer has these answers. You can see in these pix how it attaches and if you are familiar with the type of latching mechanism that is molded onto the end of the vent tube, you will know how hard it is to remove, I mean you really have to yank it.

.

[streborx]

Maybe the problem is not a leaky breather hose, but one that's clogged or not functioning as intended. Transfer cases and fluids get hot when used, and internal pressure needs to be equalized so that fluid doesn't blow out through the shaft seals when hot. Sudden cooling of the transfer case by a couple inches of cold rain would create negative pressure inside if the vent tube was not working, and water could have been sucked in through the shaft seals. This is at least consistent with the laws of physics, and doesn't require water to acquire anti-gravity properties so that it can leap in mass quantity into a small diameter tube.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Marty in NY

Right, the other end connects into something, possible the tranny sump area. That tube is securely "snapped" into the Xfer case and has an o-ring for sealing. The other end is securely attached, via a clamp so its not going to move and no one will convince me that any amount of water, even under some pressure from the tires slamming into a puddle, would disconnect that tube. Remember there is also a protective belly pan below it. If that were the case, there would be thousands and thousands of reports all over the world. Let's not forget, there are vented Xfer cases on all X drive cars, not just the X5.

Since at this point I have not read a statement by your dealer as to how water got into the Xfer case, my assumption is that either the factory did not properly seat that vent tube or someone pulled it out and did not properly snap it back in. It might also be possible that the factory did not install the o-ring on the end of the vent tube...only your dealer has these answers. You can see in these pix how it attaches and if you are familiar with the type of latching mechanism that is molded onto the end of the vent tube, you will know how hard it is to remove, I mean you really have to yank it.

.

From the look, I am not sure this is breathing tube. Looks like routing to some sort of cooling radiators. If this tube ends got knocked off, I would think fluid will come out as well. Will be interesting to see a larger area picture to see where tube is connected to

[fstezaws]

I have driven over 125 miles since picking up the car after the fluid change and calibration, and not surprisingly there isn't much of an improvement in driveability.

It seemed like maybe there has been some mild improvement, but it could be that the only time it feels smoother is possibly related to the most recent sharp steering angle in the same direction. Example, if the last time I turned sharply was towards the left direction and then my next sharp turn was also left then it feels less 'locked up' on this second attempt.

I think some apparent smoothness improvement may also be related to the pavement I'm on as smooth-ish asphalt seems the worst. So if there is more friction on the tires, then the more locked it feels.

This is all conjecture and assumption at this point.

[starlights]

With expected flooding in Florida due to the oncoming hurricane, wonder if additional BMWs will end up this route...

[streborx]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

I have driven over 125 miles since picking up the car after the fluid change and calibration, and not surprisingly there isn't much of an improvement in driveability.

It seemed like maybe there has been some mild improvement, but it could be that the only time it feels smoother is possibly related to the most recent sharp steering angle in the same direction. Example, if the last time I turned sharply was towards the left direction and then my next sharp turn was also left then it feels less 'locked up' on this second attempt.

I think some apparent smoothness improvement may also be related to the pavement I'm on as smooth-ish asphalt seems the worst. So if there is more friction on the tires, then the more locked it feels.

This is all conjecture and assumption at this point.

I am skeptical that draining and refilling the xfer case could completely remove all the water contamination. More likely, removal and some degree of disassembly, and total flushing with some solvent would be necessary. Alternately, draining and refilling a dozen times might remove enough water residue so that it becomes negligible. I'd go back to the dealer and have another fluid sample taken to see how bad it still is.

[mobsync]

I wonder how deep the water you drove through is compared to the depth they have you drive thru at the performance center.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

I have driven over 125 miles since picking up the car after the fluid change and calibration, and not surprisingly there isn't much of an improvement in driveability.

It seemed like maybe there has been some mild improvement, but it could be that the only time it feels smoother is possibly related to the most recent sharp steering angle in the same direction. Example, if the last time I turned sharply was towards the left direction and then my next sharp turn was also left then it feels less 'locked up' on this second attempt.

I think some apparent smoothness improvement may also be related to the pavement I'm on as smooth-ish asphalt seems the worst. So if there is more friction on the tires, then the more locked it feels.

This is all conjecture and assumption at this point.

Since the fill and drain hole are one and the same, its probably going to take a couple of flushes before you get pure oil in there and until you do, I doubt the issue will be solved. Remember, the oil type is pretty fussy, the OEM oil is being replaced by a diff type, such was also the case with my transfer case in my old X3. Once they put the right oil it, it was perfect. When you're flushing something that does not have a bottom facing drain hole, it's tough to get it all out in one go.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by mobsync

I wonder how deep the water you drove through is compared to the depth they have you drive thru at the performance center.

Perf center course water is quite deep, easily 1ft, or even 1.5ft. If I see similar puddle elsewhere with my own car, unless my life depends on it, I won't go.

But perf center experience is different, what is the worst that can happen? transfer case fail binding? they take it in for maintenance, either replace fluid or the entire thing. We don't know what extenses of maintenance those demo cars go through

[eelnoraa]

Looking at picture of @marty in ny, this should be the orientation of the transfer case. The "vent" tube and hot is above the rear drive shift. It is well hidden and protected. Even if you wade through water puddle, I doubt water will rush into that area, and push the tube off the hole.

Also, i wonder how much water it takes to get the fluid looks like a milk shake. I cannot be a few drops, right? must be a good volume. To get good amount of water in to the vent hole, the water need to be very high, above drive shift. I would even say water cover 80% of the transmission housing

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Looking at picture of @marty in ny, this should be the orientation of the transfer case. The "vent" tube and hot is above the rear drive shift. It is well hidden and protected. Even if you wade through water puddle, I doubt water will rush into that area, and push the tube off the hole.

Also, i wonder how much water it takes to get the fluid looks like a milk shake. I cannot be a few drops, right? must be a good volume. To get good amount of water in to the vent hole, the water need to be very high, above drive shift. I would even say water cover 80% of the transmission housing

I don't believe water pushed the hose out of its hole or the water level got that high. My guess is the hose was not installed properly and over time, water got in, little by little until the owner started noticing the symptoms. I just don't think it was a one time event. Since the gears and drive chain inside the transfer case are moving, they agitated the water and oil that caused the maple milkshake color we saw, I don't think that means there was a lot of water in there. It would be the equivalent to mixing oil and water in a blender. If it were my car, I'd do another oil purge very soon, compare its color to new oil and refill with new oil of the proper type.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Marty in NY

I don't believe water pushed the hose out of its hole or the water level got that high. My guess is the hose was not installed properly and over time, water got in, little by little until the owner started noticing the symptoms. I just don't think it was a one time event. Since the gears and drive chain inside the transfer case are moving, they agitated the water and oil that caused the maple milkshake color we saw, I don't think that means there was a lot of water in there. It would be the equivalent to mixing oil and water in a blender. If it were my car, I'd do another oil purge very soon, compare its color to new oil and refill with new oil of the proper type.

Totally agree.

I would do another fluid change as well. With the BMW transfer case fill/drain plug design, you really cannot get everything out at one go.

[fstezaws]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Perf center course water is quite deep, easily 1ft, or even 1.5ft. If I see similar puddle elsewhere with my own car, unless my life depends on it, I won't go.

But perf center experience is different, what is the worst that can happen? transfer case fail binding? they take it in for maintenance, either replace fluid or the entire thing. We don't know what extenses of maintenance those demo cars go through

I would suggest that the purpose of the performance center experience is to demonstrate the capabilities of the car. If they do in fact pass through water beyond 6" in depth (which I imagine it does), I would be hard pressed to think that the instructions for a driver is to NOT exceed 3mph in the water...because that would just raise questions.

This is my biggest beef with how BMW has treated my issue in that they are stating "outside influence" of water. While that may be true, if they advertise the car to be driven in adverse conditions without issue, and they show cars being used in that manner, and offer paid experience opportunities for people to use them in the manner that they suggest, I as a consumer would imagine if I did the same thing as they do and the car then malfunctioned, that is BMW's fault.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

I would suggest that the purpose of the performance center experience is to demonstrate the capabilities of the car. If they do in fact pass through water beyond 6" in depth (which I imagine it does), I would be hard pressed to think that the instructions for a driver is to NOT exceed 3mph in the water...because that would just raise questions.

This is my biggest beef with how BMW has treated my issue in that they are stating "outside influence" of water. While that may be true, if they advertise the car to be driven in adverse conditions without issue, and they show cars being used in that manner, and offer paid experience opportunities for people to use them in the manner that they suggest, I as a consumer would imagine if I did the same thing as they do and the car then malfunctioned, that is BMW's fault.

yes, I think in your case, it is BMW being irresponsible. Unless transfer case see a physical damage, or if they see sight of car being flooded, no reason water can get in transfer case unless something is defective.

As for the performance center experience, it is certainly true what you see in perf center, the car actually have that capability. But that shouldn't surprised at all. What people don't see is what kind of maintenance it takes for car to live on those usage. A few times is OK. If that level of usage becomes often, the maintenance bill will there as well

[arRod1981]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

I would suggest that the purpose of the performance center experience is to demonstrate the capabilities of the car. If they do in fact pass through water beyond 6" in depth (which I imagine it does), I would be hard pressed to think that the instructions for a driver is to NOT exceed 3mph in the water...because that would just raise questions.

This is my biggest beef with how BMW has treated my issue in that they are stating "outside influence" of water. While that may be true, if they advertise the car to be driven in adverse conditions without issue, and they show cars being used in that manner, and offer paid experience opportunities for people to use them in the manner that they suggest, I as a consumer would imagine if I did the same thing as they do and the car then malfunctioned, that is BMW's fault.

I just rewatched the video from when we did PCD, and the water was definitely higher than 6", but we only did between 3-4 mph.

[fstezaws]

So something crazy happened this week.

As previously reported, I had driven it about 150 miles after the fluid change without much of a noticeable improvement. Sometimes it felt like there was a minor improvement, but there wasn't really any extreme improvement.

I got busy and didn't feel like putting a lot more effort into pushing BMW to do more, so I just kept driving it. I had put on about 300 miles total since the fluid change before this week without any noticeable improvement since the first 150 miles.

All of these 300 miles were in town short commutes at speeds below 55mph or so.

Yesterday I had to drive to another city and I ended up puting on about 250 miles at interstate speeds. So for about 3 hours of my commute I was cruising at around 85mph. I got home late and didn't think much about it whether the car pulled into the driveway smoothly or not.

Then this morning, backing out, there was no more binding or jittering. I kind of thought it was a fluke. So on my commute to the office this morning (about 4 miles drive) I made sure I did 2 u-turns and other slow, sharp turning maneuvers and lo and behold, it performed flawlessly! I was kind of shocked, to be honest.

I have no idea if this is a mechanical/fluid learning that needed to happen with time and/or the right conditions (like higher speed), or if some sensor needed some specific conditions (speed, duration, temperature) to complete some kind of calibration that made it behave better. This is all speculation, but, remarkably, the binding seems to have gone away and it basically feels normal!

What is ironic is that at the start of my drive yesterday, it was raining pretty good and I was thinking to myself "oh boy, lets see what else is going to break by driving in the rain!" lol

I'll give it a few more days, but this is definitely not just some wishful thinking.

I was mentally preparing to call BMW and get insurance involved so I think I just saved myself the $1000 insurance deductible!

[Dermz93]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

I'm going to keep pushing purely out of principle.

I would totally own up to some offroading trek where a rock damaged the frame, axles, control arms, driveshaft, etc. But this isn't just an "unfortunate" accident of playing with a toy and then getting bit in the butt. This is a normal, everyday driving environment in conditions that 99% of car owners would have found "reasonable" to be in.

So ya, I'm wired to not let this kind of crap slide because I know there are too many people out there who will get hosed on this kind of stuff.

I am truly sorry to hear about this issue you are having. I just bought my first bmw and was convinced to purchase extended warranty which i did. I now am realizing that it may not be worth it at all. A few friends of mine who own bmw’s told me that BMW’s dont like water. I am actually thinking about selling my bmw after maybe one year (if so long) i dont think i will own another. Your situation is apparently common on bmw vehicles but the bmw conpany/dealers do not want to own up to it and take responsibilty for when real problems occur with the vehicles. Thank you for sharing and i really hope your fight bmw will turn out successful.

[F15_SGM]

Originally Posted by Dermz93

I am truly sorry to hear about this issue you are having. I just bought my first bmw and was convinced to purchase extended warranty which i did. I now am realizing that it may not be worth it at all. A few friends of mine who own bmw’s told me that BMW’s dont like water. I am actually thinking about selling my bmw after maybe one year (if so long) i dont think i will own another. Your situation is apparently common on bmw vehicles but the bmw conpany/dealers do not want to own up to it and take responsibilty for when real problems occur with the vehicles. Thank you for sharing and i really hope your fight bmw will turn out successful.

X vehicles perform phenomenal in water driving conditions. Snow it drives even better. As long the tires are correct for the situation. In rain just don't floor it so water doesn't get sucked in causing a hydro lock engine. That's all turbo performance engines including Mercedes. It's not just bmw or a particular brand. If you watch autovlogs on YouTube his c63 hydro locked almost brand new in rainy weather. Extended warranty is definitely worth it as my last f15 n55 required upwards of $15K in repairs/maintenance in less than a year. The problem can begin at any time with a bmw or you could be problem free. It's not guaranteed on a bmw what breaks and when.

I don't trust the bmw dealership with my vehicles. I only use a Indy shop I trust and use the best quality oil and OEM parts if needed. The dealership is nothing more than a stealership with kids doing your oil changes. Especially if your out of warranty.

[Dermz93]

Originally Posted by F15_SGM

X vehicles perform phenomenal in water driving conditions. Snow it drives even better. As long the tires are correct for the situation. In rain just don't floor it so water doesn't get sucked in causing a hydro lock engine. That's all turbo performance engines including Mercedes. It's not just bmw or a particular brand. If you watch autovlogs on YouTube his c63 hydro locked almost brand new in rainy weather. Extended warranty is definitely worth it as my last f15 n55 required upwards of $15K in repairs/maintenance in less than a year. The problem can begin at any time with a bmw or you could be problem free. It's not guaranteed on a bmw what breaks and when.

I don't trust the bmw dealership with my vehicles. I only use a Indy shop I trust and use the best quality oil and OEM parts if needed. The dealership is nothing more than a stealership with kids doing your oil changes. Especially if your out of warranty.

I agree with the dealerships being stealerships🤣.

My dealership has already told me that if i drive in any water and something happens to any of the mechanics under the car, my warranty will be voided. I’m guessing they are talking about the transfer case.. idk. But not very encouranging to buy another bmw in my opinion. This will probably be my first and last bmw. I wish all future bmw owners luck!

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by F15_SGM

X vehicles perform phenomenal in water driving conditions. Snow it drives even better. As long the tires are correct for the situation. In rain just don't floor it so water doesn't get sucked in causing a hydro lock engine. That's all turbo performance engines including Mercedes. It's not just bmw or a particular brand. If you watch autovlogs on YouTube his c63 hydro locked almost brand new in rainy weather. Extended warranty is definitely worth it as my last f15 n55 required upwards of $15K in repairs/maintenance in less than a year. The problem can begin at any time with a bmw or you could be problem free. It's not guaranteed on a bmw what breaks and when.

I don't trust the bmw dealership with my vehicles. I only use a Indy shop I trust and use the best quality oil and OEM parts if needed. The dealership is nothing more than a stealership with kids doing your oil changes. Especially if your out of warranty.

What happened? No warranty?

I think the C63 was not only driving in rain, it was driven through a deeper puddle that the car should be driving on. If ground doesn't have puddle, I highly doubt driving fast will cause hydrolock. The intake is well hidden that rain cannot get in. OR, early C63 is known to have injector stuck open issue. so fuel fills the cylinda when the car is off. The next time the car is turn on => hydrolock.

[FCX5]

[QUOTE=fstezaws;30420675]I'm creating a new thread even though I had posted a few comments in another thread that was related to issues with the transfer case "binding" or "grinding" while driving at low speeds and sharp turning angles. I thought it would be better to make this a separate thread in case others have similar problems (whether in the past or in the future).

Brought in my 22 X5 M50i (about 17k mile so far, never missed any service intervals) into the local dealer for an issue I was experiencing: at low-speeds and sharp steering angles, there is very extreme binding/stuttering on the front drivetrain. It seemed obvious to me that it was a transfer case issue.

I did some searching and found multiple threads related to transfer case problems with the current X5 and previous generations.

My issue started immediately after driving in the first heavy rain of the summer (southern AZ monsoons). I didn't drive off-road and was only driving on a major road that had maybe 3-5" of water in some areas due to the intense rain. I had actually taken a video in my office parking lot of the intense rain minutes before heading home because it was 119° outside and there was incredible hail coming down.

I noticed the binding when I was pulling into my driveway at home. This is a 2-3 mile drive at most. I thought maybe the rotors were wet, or some leaves or twigs got into some sensor, and that after everything dried out the issue would likely go away. It never did.

After about 4-5 days of experiencing this [...]

Clearly BMW did not intend the X5 to be an actual SUV. It’s a luxury car with SUV styling I suppose if they won’t cover 3-5 inches of water! Seems unfortunate, but I guess that is the difference between an SAV and an SUV 🤷🏻‍♂️