[1230vani]

If lower what are the best upgrades? Thanks

[SlowX6M]

B&O was one of the worst systems ever, B&W isn't perfect but much better.

They are all made by HK, except the B&W diamond tweeters which are made by B&W, but B&O had a horrible tune.

[Al Pinã]

If you know how to adjust the EQ the B&W has PLENTY of bass.

[1230vani]

Originally Posted by Al Pin　

If you know how to adjust the EQ the B&W has PLENTY of bass.

Thanks to both

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by 1230vani

If lower what are the best upgrades? Thanks

Originally Posted by Al Pinã

If you know how to adjust the EQ the B&W has PLENTY of bass.

It's all subjective, but I would fully disagree with this: The B&W has zero sub-bass no matter the tuning.

The B&W is what's called "neutral" in the headphones world, i.e., leans toward vocals & highs with very little bass versus, say, a "fun" tuning which leans towards sub-bass & bass.

If one tends towards a "fun" sound (i.e., beats headphones or, better, Campfire Cascade) then the B&W will sound dead & bass-less ... it can be tuned track-by-track to sound ok, but then you need to tune it track-by-track ... which definitely isn't fun.

[Al Pinã]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

It's all subjective, but I would fully disagree with this: The B&W has zero sub-bass no matter the tuning.

The B&W is what's called "neutral" in the headphones world, i.e., leans toward vocals & highs with very little bass versus, say, a "fun" tuning which leans towards sub-bass & bass.

If one tends towards a "fun" sound (i.e., beats headphones or, better, Campfire Cascade) then the B&W will sound dead & bass-less ... it can be tuned track-by-track to sound ok, but then you need to tune it track-by-track ... which definitely isn't fun.

They must've forgot to put the under seat woofers in your B&W system.

I'm a sound engineer by trade so I know a thing or three about high end sound systems.

The B&W needs quite a bit of low end boosting on the EQ, but I've never felt it lacked bass. And you saying "zero bass" makes me question your hearing.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Al Pinã

And you saying "zero bass" makes me question your hearing.

Except I said "zero SUB-bass" which makes me question your reading; please don't justify what your ears hear with "buh buh I'm a sound engineer" ...

If the B&W has enough bass for you, great! But nobody with any digital audio experience would call this a fun or basshead system; it's just not. It's neutral. (which, ironically is what most 'sound engineers' need).

The net-net is, if someone like beats headphones, or any type of similar fun headphone, they won't like the B&W system no matter how they tune it. They may get it tuned great for one track, but the very next one will sound like shit and they'll have to re-tune it ... and if they tune it to sound decent for most tracks it won't satisfy any basshead ... and it really doesn't matter if you play flacs or whatever.

If one prefers Grados, or the Campfire Andromeda, they'll probably like the B&W and think it has plenty of bass like you. If one prefers the ZMF Eikon or Verite, or the Campfire vega or Cascade they will not be happy with the B&W.


It's just personal preference:

Bassheads will not like the B&W and most normals will think it sounds gutless.

[irpirate]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

It's all subjective, but I would fully disagree with this: The B&W has zero sub-bass no matter the tuning.

The B&W is what's called "neutral" in the headphones world, i.e., leans toward vocals & highs with very little bass versus, say, a "fun" tuning which leans towards sub-bass & bass.

If one tends towards a "fun" sound (i.e., beats headphones or, better, Campfire Cascade) then the B&W will sound dead & bass-less ... it can be tuned track-by-track to sound ok, but then you need to tune it track-by-track ... which definitely isn't fun.

Agreed, I'm a basshead, added a sub to make up for lack of low-end.

[SlowX6M]

I don't think there are any factory systems that have "sub bass", even the EQ on the B&W, B&O, HK, Logic 7, etc only goes to 100hz. They all have 8" thin profile under seat "midwoofers" for what its worth. Short of Mark Levinson systems in high end Lexus models, B&W is probably the best sounding system on the market right now.

That being said, B&O system had the most awful tuning when it came to just about everything - mids, bass, and highs. It had tons of distortions and sounded muddy, in many ways worse than the old Logic 7. B&W sound impressive in comparison, with clear mids, crispy highs, and punchy bass. I was impressed enough to replace the Logic 7 subs and mids in my E70 with B&W subs and mids, it made a huge improvement. Few others in the E70 forum did the same, and are very happy.

If you're looking for that sub bass, you'll have to add a proper subwoofer.

P.S. - I even tried upgrading the HK subwoofers in my M2 with B&W subwoofers, but that didn't work. They fit, but 2ohm vs 8ohm, M2 amp just couldn't drive them, they were barely audible.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

I don't think there are any factory systems that have "sub bass",

Whatever was in my 2018 M4 Comp did ...

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Whatever was in my 2018 M4 Comp did ...

Not anymore than the B&W system. Assuming yours had the HK system, it uses more or less the same shallow depth 8" 8ohm underseat woofers as the B&W system. They are interchangeable, and pretty similar, the B&W branded one is going to be higher quality, but neither is physically able to hit "sub bass".

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

It's all subjective, but I would fully disagree with this: The B&W has zero sub-bass no matter the tuning.

The B&W is what's called "neutral" in the headphones world, i.e., leans toward vocals & highs with very little bass versus, say, a "fun" tuning which leans towards sub-bass & bass.

If one tends towards a "fun" sound (i.e., beats headphones or, better, Campfire Cascade) then the B&W will sound dead & bass-less ... it can be tuned track-by-track to sound ok, but then you need to tune it track-by-track ... which definitely isn't fun.

The B&W sound signature is generally neutral. I believe that is what makes them good studio monitors but maybe not for those who want a punchier bass or brighter sound ala Klipsch or higher-end Focals. I think if you put a separate subwoofer you’ll get the extra kick.

The under-seat woofers from what I know are not true subs like JL Audio.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Whatever was in my 2018 M4 Comp did ...

The cabin has a lot to do with it. I believe it was B&O on the M4 right? Anyway, the top audio system on the 2018 M4 was highly regarded.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Not anymore than the B&W system.

Oh ok. Instead of my 3 years of listening experience with the system I'll go with your speculative guesses.

Audio discussions are always bizarre.

[bobbis1]

I am not a bass head but def enjoy my share of r&b/rap. B&W needs to be tuned from default settings to get a good neutral sound and there are some threads on here about those settings. You basically lower mids and increase highs/bass. I am very happy overall and even adjusted the EQ bass lower on a few occasions- prob listening to HOT 97. There is definitely less default bass than the Meridian sound system in my previous car and you get from most American cars. I personally feel they always sound a bit unnatural like beats headphones or watching 240hz up-scanned televisions.

[SlowX6M]

Originally Posted by FCX5

The B&W sound signature is generally neutral. I believe that is what makes them good studio monitors but maybe not for those who want a punchier bass or brighter sound ala Klipsch or higher-end Focals. I think if you put a separate subwoofer you’ll get the extra kick.

The under-seat woofers from what I know are not true subs like JL Audio.

I believe theB&W system in the BMW isn't a true B&W system. It is branded B&W, and at most likelu some design and tuning is done by B&W, and the only true B&W parts are the two "diamond" tweeters inside the front doors, they cost about $900 each.

Hitting true 20hz "sub bass" frequencies is just not feasible with a shallow 8" woofer and open enclosure. Many speaker and headphone systems are "tuned" to fake bass, at the expense of compromised clarity.

I've had 8 different BMWs with different sound systems, including aftermarket Bavsound (which was absolutely awful), and so far the B&W systems is their best sounding system, and the first time BMW started to actually care about audio quality. B&O was one of their worst efforts, it was so badly tuned that it had horrible distortion at certain frequencies.

Check out the next gen B&W system, they will even have inseat "vibrators" (exciters?) to make you feel the bass.


https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/08/06/v...w-ix-detailed/

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

I believe theB&W system in the BMW isn't a true B&W system. It is branded B&W, and at most likelu some design and tuning is done by B&W, and the only true B&W parts are the two "diamond" tweeters inside the front doors, they cost about $900 each.

Hitting true 20hz "sub bass" frequencies is just not feasible with a shallow 8" woofer and open enclosure. Many speaker and headphone systems are "tuned" to fake bass, at the expense of compromised clarity.

I've had 8 different BMWs with different sound systems, including aftermarket Bavsound (which was absolutely awful), and so far the B&W systems is their best sounding system, and the first time BMW started to actually care about audio quality. B&O was one of their worst efforts, it was so badly tuned that it had horrible distortion at certain frequencies.

Check out the next gen B&W system, they will even have inseat "vibrators" (exciters?) to make you feel the bass.


https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/08/06/v...w-ix-detailed/

Looking forward to the sound in our iX!

BTW you are correct that only the diamond tweeters are B&W, all the rest is standard HK that you can buy from China - I used to have the link to the manufacturer to buy direct. LOL).

I was told by the owner of Safe and Sound Mobile, that the problem with the previous gen B&O system was something he called "loudness" where the bass was increased at lower volume but decreased when increased the volume. So he used to code it off (or turn it off). However, the woofers themselves had higher excursion than the current ones so you could get more bass with more power (he was recommending why I should replace my under seat woofers with Focal's or get a dedicated sub). They do a lot of high end work so I wasn't a big customer for them. But when I was at the shop there was a new X7 getting their B&W system upgraded!

As a side story. I saw an interview while back with Paul McCartney where he said that he likes to crank up the volume with the top down when he is driving and when he wants to do some serious listening he uses his headphones.

I also noticed in this video he has B&O in his living room. LOL. Definitely not audiophile

[SlowX6M]

Ugh, the sound might be the only good thing about the IX. It is so incredibly ugly, and the stupid ipad dash is just awful. BMW has completely lost the essence of BMW.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by SlowX6M

Ugh, the sound might be the only good thing about the IX. It is so incredibly ugly, and the stupid ipad dash is just awful. BMW has completely lost the essence of BMW.

Yeah. The iX is definitely a departure from European designs that favor clean and cohesive lines. I doubt it'll win many design awards. My wife thinks it looks fine, but she is not a 'car' enthusiast.

BMW has been such an iconic and influential brand when it comes to design language that it'll be interesting to see how this change pans out.

[2022X6]

Originally Posted by Al Pin　

They must've forgot to put the under seat woofers in your B&W system.

I'm a sound engineer by trade so I know a thing or three about high end sound systems.

The B&W needs quite a bit of low end boosting on the EQ, but I've never felt it lacked bass. And you saying "zero bass" makes me question your hearing.

- in my X640i I get no upgrade choice-
If you do not suggest the std system is good sound, what's an alternative I can have installed easily , I'm open to just upgrading separate parts if that's an alternative,

Thank you,


QUOTE=Al Pin　;28520784]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

It's all subjective, but I would fully disagree with this: The B&W has zero sub-bass no matter the tuning.

The B&W is what's called "neutral" in the headphones world, i.e., leans toward vocals & highs with very little bass versus, say, a "fun" tuning which leans towards sub-bass & bass.

If one tends towards a "fun" sound (i.e., beats headphones or, better, Campfire Cascade) then the B&W will sound dead & bass-less ... it can be tuned track-by-track to sound ok, but then you need to tune it track-by-track ... which definitely isn't fun.

They must've forgot to put the under seat woofers in your B&W system.

I'm a sound engineer by trade so I know a thing or three about high end sound systems.

The B&W needs quite a bit of low end boosting on the EQ, but I've never felt it lacked bass. And you saying "zero bass" makes me question your hearing.[/QUOTE]

[amc42]

Originally Posted by FCX5

The B&W sound signature is generally neutral. I believe that is what makes them good studio monitors but maybe not for those who want a punchier bass or brighter sound ala Klipsch or higher-end Focals.

I meanwhile got my car and would agree with that summary, though with a few observations:

1) The overall clarity is so much better than the HK system - including the lower range, that there's really no comparison.

2) The B&W system does not seem to enhance lows and highs at lower listening volumes. While I do like neutral systems as such, in the car that seems to be a missing feature.

3) While the very deep lows are lacking, what it does is render stuff like this:

very accurately, and especially the part near the end around 5:00, even at very high volume (using the iTunes version in the car, though). In my last HK system and the HK in the X5 I test drove, this was just crap and not worth listening to.

4) Most bass - even the very low one seems to come from the door panels - NOT from under the seats. At high volume you can feel with the hand somethings coming from down there, but it's not much.

[-Vanguard-]

None of these $5K sound systems are worth the cost.