[sharkymcpeterson]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Which Toyota had nothing to do with despite many rumors to the contrary.

My understanding was that the b58 was designed by bmw and reviewed, made more reliable by Toyota after the fact and then that improved version of the engine is what is used in Supra’s and bmws that run the b58. I also thought that bmw incorporated some of Toyotas suggestions on the b58 into newer iterations of other engines. I could be wrong but that’s what I think I read or heard at some point. Either way, the bottom line here is modern bmws have been stellar with regard to reliability.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by sharkymcpeterson

My understanding was that the b58 was designed by bmw and reviewed, made more reliable by Toyota after the fact and then that improved version of the engine is what is used in Supra’s and bmws that run the b58. I also thought that bmw incorporated some of Toyotas suggestions on the b58 into newer iterations of other engines. I could be wrong but that’s what I think I read or heard at some point. Either way, the bottom line here is modern bmws have been stellar with regard to reliability.

Ya, that has been floated around Reddit and various forums but there is nothing to back that up. All media reports/interviews I have seen say they used the stock B58 and tuned it for the Supra, a few below. Nothing I have come across say there were any changes made to the B58 in order for it to be used by Toyota.

They definitely have been very good in regards to reliability.

https://www.motor1.com/news/298196/t...e-explanation/

https://www.businessinsider.com/toyo...ts-from-2020-4

[SteVTEC]

It's not believable to me that Toyota had zero input on the B58. I'm guessing their input is/was something greater than zero.

I'm guessing that whatever input Toyota might have had on the B58 to be highly confidential and proprietary, and won't ever be known publicly. I'm guessing Toyota may have foot the bill for BMW to run whatever extended tests Toyota would typically run on their own engines to ensure more Toyota grade reliability, along with feedback from Toyota engineering teams back to BMW.

It's not reasonable to think that Toyota owners, even Supra buyers, would be accepting of less than your typical Toyota grade reliability without being super upset and making a ton of noise and creating bad press for Toyota, which they would want to avoid.

I don't think it's a coincidence that BMW is suddenly able to build vehicles with top ranked reliability, although a lot more goes into vehicle reliability than engines.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

It's not believable to me that Toyota had zero input on the B58. I'm guessing their input is/was something greater than zero.

I'm guessing that whatever input Toyota might have had on the B58 to be highly confidential and proprietary, and won't ever be known publicly. I'm guessing Toyota may have foot the bill for BMW to run whatever extended tests Toyota would typically run on their own engines to ensure more Toyota grade reliability, along with feedback from Toyota engineering teams back to BMW.

It's not reasonable to think that Toyota owners, even Supra buyers, would be accepting of less than your typical Toyota grade reliability without being super upset and making a ton of noise and creating bad press for Toyota, which they would want to avoid.

I don't think it's a coincidence that BMW is suddenly able to build vehicles with top ranked reliability, although a lot more goes into vehicle reliability than engines.

There are always conspiracy theories about anything and of course you are free to believe what you want. All we can go by are the facts/ information that has been given out. Since that has said they have had no input that would be the prevailing theory.

As Toyota's chief engineer said in an interview "We were actually surprised at the high level of reliability and durability. It wasn’t like, ‘Oh, we have to fix those.’ In general, it was within Toyota standards."

I wouldn't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that they made some suggestions but being an active part of the engine design there is nothing pointing to that.

Edit: I just found a Speed Academy article that mentions some changes that were made. They didn't say but you may be able to infer those were suggested by Toyota after the testing that was mentioned.



http://speed.academy/the-2020-gr-sup...han-you-think/

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

There are always conspiracy theories about anything and of course you are free to believe what you want. All we can go by are the facts/ information that has been given out. Since that has said they have had no input that would be the prevailing theory.

As Toyota's chief engineer said in an interview "We were actually surprised at the high level of reliability and durability. It wasn’t like, ‘Oh, we have to fix those.’ In general, it was within Toyota standards."

I wouldn't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that they made some suggestions but being an active part of the engine design there is nothing pointing to that.

Edit: I just found a Speed Academy article that mentions some changes that were made. They didn't say but you may be able to infer those were suggested by Toyota after the testing that was mentioned.

Attachment 3444599

http://speed.academy/the-2020-gr-sup...han-you-think/

Well there you go.

It's cool that Tada-san was open to discuss like that, because normally such details are buried miles deep under NDA's and joint development agreements. And yeah that was the other thing. Toyota 100% knows tuners and owners are going to be pushing power. Given the legendary power handling capability of the 2JZ, they wouldn't have wanted to put something out there that would leave people wanting.

I wouldn't mind picking up a Supra before they get discontinued at some point.