[solstice]

“Why did they remove and inspect all the luggage compartment stuff?”

With most if not all new BMWs including the X5 having at least one battery in the trunk it is a must to inspect this area on a vehicle with electrical issues. It is a rather frequent type of post here that someone has spilled fluids in the trunk and ended up with a dead car...

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by solstice

"Why did they remove and inspect all the luggage compartment stuff?"

With most if not all new BMWs including the X5 having at least one battery in the trunk it is a must to inspect this area on a vehicle with electrical issues. It is a rather frequent type of post here that someone has spilled fluids in the trunk and ended up with a dead car...

interesting, well the battery was fine. it was replaced once due to a bad cell or something the day I picked up my car.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

- Found water leakage via the roof top shark fin GPS antenna though root cause was not mentioned. That's correct, off-hand they tried to blame the other dealer's installation. I said that wouldn't have caused the issue initially from the factory. No further comment was given.
- The water leakage was responsible for taking out the antenna, the Telematics Control Unit and the 5a fuse for the BDC. My car was made 1/2019 so odds are it was not affected by such an early recall + no mention of that with my VIN so it's unrelated but thank you for the info.
- Replaced the Telematics Control Unit Yes, 2nd time too!!
- Replaced the Telematics Control Unit battery Yes, 2nd time too!!
- Programmed the new TCU
- Fixed the water ingress issueMaybe the one they could find but now the one with my BDC module.

The way I read the invoice was that the water damage under the shark fin that caused the TCU to fail is also what caused the BDC fuse to blow. Meaning there may not be water ingress at the BDC location. The only hesitation in saying that is due to not knowing why they used windshield adhesive unless it was just a precautionary application or they know about the whistling at high speed and thought, hey, its here, why not? Naaaa

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

The way I read the invoice was that the water damage under the shark fin that caused the TCU to fail is also what caused the BDC fuse to blow. Meaning there may not be water ingress at the BDC location. The only hesitation in saying that is due to not knowing why they used windshield adhesive unless it was just a precautionary application or they know about the whistling at high speed and thought, hey, its here, why not? Naaaa

BDC location implies water got there from the sunroof drain or AC condensor drain, neither of which were commented on in my repair order. Whistling is still there, I believe that adhesive was used for the internal shark fin, they didn't touch the external one as mentioned.

Here's the location:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/g...les/1Vnd1tdOS9

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

BDC location implies water got there from the sunroof drain or AC condensor drain, neither of which were commented on in my repair order. Whistling is still there, I believe that adhesive was used for the internal shark fin, they didn't touch the external one as mentioned.

Here's the location:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/g...les/1Vnd1tdOS9

Wait...are you saying they never removed the external shark fin cover from on top of the car during this last visit?

.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

Wait...are you saying they never removed the external shark fin cover from on top of the car during this last visit?

.

Since my car was dirty it was very easy to tell the external sharkfin was not touched. IE it was still covered in dirty consistent with the rest of the roof and uninterrupted. I believe they just replaced the internal sharkfin, you can verify by checking that P/N on my service ticket.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

Since my car was dirty it was very easy to tell the external sharkfin was not touched. IE it was still covered in dirty consistent with the rest of the roof and uninterrupted. I believe they just replaced the internal sharkfin, you can verify by checking that P/N on my service ticket.

I have looked at several pix of the antenna and its cover, I don't see how the antenna could be removed without first removing the cover from on top of the cars roof. The part number on your invoice is 65-20-8-794-263. I understand your comment about no visual proof since the layer of dust on your roof appeared undisturbed. How else could they remove it and how else could they repair the water leakage area? Am I understanding this whole thing correctly or am I missing something?
Yeah, the two color pix are not on a G05 but the RealOEM pic is. They are basically the same design.

.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

I have looked at several pix of the antenna and its cover, I don't see how the antenna could be removed without first removing the cover from on top of the cars roof. The part number on your invoice is 65-20-8-794-263. I understand your comment about no visual proof since the layer of dust on your roof appeared undisturbed. How else could they remove it and how else could they repair the water leakage area? Am I understanding this whole thing correctly or am I missing something?
Yeah, the two color pix are not on a G05 but the RealOEM pic is. They are basically the same design.

.

I have no idea and wish I took a picture before washing my car to show you. There was absolutely no indication they touched anything on the roof at all. If you did the effect would be very obvious so I'm not sure what to say.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

I have no idea and wish I took a picture before washing my car to show you. There was absolutely no indication they touched anything on the roof at all. If you did the effect would be very obvious so I'm not sure what to say.

They wrote on page 3 of your invoice that they found water damage on the TCB and then they performed a water test and found water coming from the shark fin. Do you think that its possible they did replace it and then while working on your other issues, the workshop dust recoated the roof?

Just trying to give you some peace of mind that they found root cause and you'll now be ok

.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

They wrote on page 3 of your invoice that they found water damage on the TCB and then they performed a water test and found water coming from the shark fin. Do you think that its possible they did replace it and then while working on your other issues, the workshop dust recoated the roof?

Just trying to give you some peace of mind that they found root cause and you'll now be ok

.

I figured the adhesive was for the sharkfin internally, and I don't think so, the later if dirt was from when it rained and was rather thick. shop dust was present yet both were around the shark fin with no visible spots where it was touched. I don't think I'll have peace of mind with this particular X5 given its history. I love the car just wish it didn't have so many issues. As of now nothing has reoccurred but that doesn't mean it won't in due time. I'm certain something will fail by year's end given the cars track record. I appreciate the efforts trying to narrow things down! it's hard when then won't clearly tell you what was done for 'confidentiality reasons' which is bs as we all know. TCB is the telematics unit right?

[dan321]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

. TCB is the telematics unit right?

Telematic Communication Box

The various boxes in the car are all linked together in some way. Some kind of voltage fault can, via that network, affect another box.

It might be the voltage itself that propagates or a ground that floats and causes the digital electronics to go haywire and that in turn forces a box into a physical failure... So it is possible that a failure in the antenna electronics could cause other parts of the car to have physical failure too.

Just some thoughts as to why other parts of your car failed.

In the end, though a lot of electronics these days aren't diagnosed to find what caused a failure. Mostly what is done is to swap out components 'till things start to work.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by dan321

Telematic Communication Box

The various boxes in the car are all linked together in some way. Some kind of voltage fault can, via that network, affect another box.

It might be the voltage itself that propagates or a ground that floats and causes the digital electronics to go haywire and that in turn forces a box into a physical failure... So it is possible that a failure in the antenna electronics could cause other parts of the car to have physical failure too.

Just some thoughts as to why other parts of your car failed.

In the end, though a lot of electronics these days aren't diagnosed to find what caused a failure. Mostly what is done is to swap out components 'till things start to work.

That's entirely possible. I had water ingress into the BDC module and Telematics/sharkfin (2x now) so those failed from water, not voltages. I'm not sure why BMW doesn't look into the root cause despite me asking several times now. I agree that they just replace stuff until it works which is not very efficient whatsoever.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

That's entirely possible. I had water ingress into the BDC module and Telematics/sharkfin (2x now) so those failed from water, not voltages. I'm not sure why BMW doesn't look into the root cause despite me asking several times now. I agree that they just replace stuff until it works which is not very efficient whatsoever.

Its your car, you paid for it, they have to explain what the did, what they replaced...period. For me to have peace of mind, if it were my car, I would be insistent that they sit down with me and explain everything. Normally, when I take mine in for service, they offer to do that without me even asking. Then when I leave, I understand what they did and why and somehow, that makes me feel more confident that the issue has been addressed.

In your case, they saw water, they know you'll be back if they don't get to the root cause of the water leak.

You had the following thing impacted in the picture because of the water that caused your boxes to fry. The TCB controls a lot of stuff in your car and I remember you complaining about all those things not working. Like Dan321 said, if you have boxes connected together via wiring and one box fries, its entirely probable that it will take out other boxes connected to it and fuses. So I guess what I'm saying is that ever since you took possession of your car, you may have had only real issue that has caused a myriad of symptoms. That issue is water leaking into the car in places that you cannot see. If this were my car, I would remove the passenger footwell panel, like the dealer did and leave it off and put some paper towels up above the BDC box and I would continually check it for wetness until I was satisfied that that particular leak is gone. I don't expect you to ride around with out a headliner and those are a PITA to remove but.. .. .. well, you still have a warranty even if it is a pain to take it in.

I'll be interested in seeing how this service episode plays out. I certainly wish you the best of luck!

Edit: for the water entry into the shark fin antenna, I would get up on a ladder and put a bead of clear silicone around the perimeter of the shark fin cover. Using your finger, press it in along the entire gasket area, wipe off any excess. You won't see it if done properly. Alternately, you can remove the shark fin cover, remove the gasket, apply a new gasket and remount the cover. I guess what I'm saying is that if you are in doubt that they removed that cover in order to fix the leak, I would do so myself.

.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

Its your car, you paid for it, they have to explain what the did, what they replaced...period. For me to have peace of mind, if it were my car, I would be insistent that they sit down with me and explain everything. Normally, when I take mine in for service, they offer to do that without me even asking. Then when I leave, I understand what they did and why and somehow, that makes me feel more confident that the issue has been addressed.

In your case, they saw water, they know you'll be back if they don't get to the root cause of the water leak.

You had the following thing impacted in the picture because of the water that caused your boxes to fry. The TCB controls a lot of stuff in your car and I remember you complaining about all those things not working. Like Dan321 said, if you have boxes connected together via wiring and one box fries, its entirely probable that it will take out other boxes connected to it and fuses. So I guess what I'm saying is that ever since you took possession of your car, you may have had only real issue that has caused a myriad of symptoms. That issue is water leaking into the car in places that you cannot see. If this were my car, I would remove the passenger footwell panel, like the dealer did and leave it off and put some paper towels up above the BDC box and I would continually check it for wetness until I was satisfied that that particular leak is gone. I don't expect you to ride around with out a headliner and those are a PITA to remove but.. .. .. well, you still have a warranty even if it is a pain to take it in.

I'll be interested in seeing how this service episode plays out. I certainly wish you the best of luck!

Edit: for the water entry into the shark fin antenna, I would get up on a ladder and put a bead of clear silicone around the perimeter of the shark fin cover. Using your finger, press it in along the entire gasket area, wipe off any excess. You won't see it if done properly. Alternately, you can remove the shark fin cover, remove the gasket, apply a new gasket and remount the cover. I guess what I'm saying is that if you are in doubt that they removed that cover in order to fix the leak, I would do so myself.

.

Thanks for posting that diagram! I agree with you on wanting to know/understand what's going on. The issue is they don't know and won't speculate. BMW NA is also stonewalling me and won't give more info, go figure. In fact, they emailed me yesterday saying its "fixed" (where have I heard that before ) and nothing more would be done. What's disturbing is the case manager CC'd some service manager on the east coast because she didn't even take the time to check who the email was going to! That's just pure complacency.

I might check on that BDC module and see if water is getting in there. As I've said a few times I'm certain there's a deeper issue here causing things, whether that's improper sealing of components or leaky drainage as you mentioned. I'll let you know if I find anything.

[Ilyam5]

Whats more concerning is that the service department left themselves an out stating that you asked them not to water test the repair

Im sure they used windshield glue to reattach outside shark fin. But i would want them to keep leak testing until its 100 percent dry

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

Thanks for posting that diagram! I agree with you on wanting to know/understand what's going on. The issue is they don't know and won't speculate. BMW NA is also stonewalling me and won't give more info, go figure. In fact, they emailed me yesterday saying its "fixed" (where have I heard that before ) and nothing more would be done. What's disturbing is the case manager CC'd some service manager on the east coast because she didn't even take the time to check who the email was going to! That's just pure complacency.

I might check on that BDC module and see if water is getting in there. As I've said a few times I'm certain there's a deeper issue here causing things, whether that's improper sealing of components or leaky drainage as you mentioned. I'll let you know if I find anything.

Yup, that's what I would do if I were you, you have a lot of info now from your multiple service visits, your knowledge of the car and its failure points that you should be able to do your own investigation. However, they will have to continue warranty coverage if these modules fail again. All things are fixed until they fail again

I think you should sell it, go into the witness protection program and then buy a new one

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

Yup, that's what I would do if I were you, you have a lot of info now from your multiple service visits, your knowledge of the car and its failure points that you should be able to do your own investigation. However, they will have to continue warranty coverage if these modules fail again. All things are fixed until they fail again

I think you should sell it, go into the witness protection program and then buy a new one

I am submitting the last service ticket to the law office I'm using and seeing what their take is. My car has been in the shop over 30 days now (before it was 25 days) so it meets the Lemon Law especially given the myriad of issues and safety concerns.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

Whats more concerning is that the service department left themselves an out stating that you asked them not to water test the repair

Im sure they used windshield glue to reattach outside shark fin. But i would want them to keep leak testing until its 100 percent dry

Not really, they wanted to test with hard water which I said no, I said they could use non-hard water but they declined. In the end if it fails it's on them

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

Whats more concerning is that the service department left themselves an out stating that you asked them not to water test the repair

Im sure they used windshield glue to reattach outside shark fin. But i would want them to keep leak testing until its 100 percent dry

Maybe. I agree that it was not the best decision to tell them not to wash or get the car wet when there was a water leak issue that was to be fixed. When owners restrict the service dept from doing their job, they can use that against you. Mind you though, he is still under warranty no matter what he told the dealership. It just makes their job harder and you do want them on your side.

Here's the strange thing though...if you read through what the service dept wrote on the invoice.. ..
1. Performed a water test
2. Found a water leak into the car via the shark fin cover
3. Replaced the GPS antenna which is under the shark fin cover
4. Re-glued the shark fin cover (did they replace the gasket???)
5. Did not perform a second water test because of what AR said.

Now you tell me how this makes any sense, the first thing they did was a water test, then they said they couldn't do a water test. What the hell's going on? Is this their way of trying to hide behind AR's instructions so they can deny warranty if this happens again???If the dealer gives AR any crap upon a potential future visit for the same issue, I would politely show them their invoice and point to the section that said they in fact did do a water test.

Thing is, for AR's peace of mind, what was really done or does he now simply have to find out for himself as he drives the car


.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

Maybe. I agree that it was not the best decision to tell them not to wash or get the car wet when there was a water leak issue that was to be fixed. When owners restrict the service dept from doing their job, they can use that against you. Mind you though, he is still under warranty no matter what he told the dealership. It just makes their job harder and you do want them on your side.

Here's the strange thing though...if you read through what the service dept wrote on the invoice.. ..
1. Performed a water test
2. Found a water leak into the car via the shark fin cover
3. Replaced the GPS antenna which is under the shark fin cover
4. Re-glued the shark fin cover (did they replace the gasket???)
5. Did not perform a second water test because of what AR said.

Now you tell me how this makes any sense, the first thing they did was a water test, then they said they couldn't do a water test. What the hell's going on? Is this their way of trying to hide behind AR's instructions so they can deny warranty if this happens again???If the dealer gives AR any crap upon a potential future visit for the same issue, I would politely show them their invoice and point to the section that said they in fact did do a water test.

Thing is, for AR's peace of mind, what was really done or does he now simply have to find out for himself as he drives the car


.

See, that's what I was wondering too, they seem to have the ability to test w/o hard water but refused the second time... They sort of backed themselves into a corner with that one, I'll keep you guys in the loop with any developments I'm sure my X5 is somewhat of a legend due to the number of unique issues its had

[VTENGR]

Originally Posted by AndroidRobot

See, that's what I was wondering too, they seem to have the ability to test w/o hard water but refused the second time... They sort of backed themselves into a corner with that one, I'll keep you guys in the loop with any developments I'm sure my X5 is somewhat of a legend due to the number of unique issues its had

How do you know the initial test was not with hard water?

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by VTENGR

How do you know the initial test was not with hard water?

I don't but the hard water spots on my roof say otherwise.... ceramic coating probably took the brunt of the damage. I got most of the spots out.