[Cheesy Myneezy]

Newbie here, just got 22" m50i black sapphire 22"742. Considering it's the exact same engine detuned, used in the M competition, I'd like to know people's thoughts? I get that some will say no way it's not an M car, others will say it's in between, but technically bmws website when you go to order the car, M50i is under the M setup, combined with the M competition. If you google it, many websites will argue it is "every bit an M car" where others will say absolutely not.

You basically can find info in today's day in age to back up whatever your claim/stance/opinion is.

Thoughts?

[scottomfg]

It isn't an M car. An M car is, um, an M car, i.e. X5 M. Deciding to what degree it is comparable to an M car is something people can debate till the cows come home, but the question is a matter of fact and the answer is simple.

[Nuckle]

Not an M car and the differences are major in my opinion. Not saying the M50i is not a beast but it can not come close to hanging with a full M.

[Cheesy Myneezy]

Originally Posted by Nuckle

Not an M car and the differences are major in my opinion. Not saying the M50i is not a beast but it can not come close to hanging with a full M.

I don't disagree but the fact that you also state a "full M" I think in itself is why there is a debate in the first place

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Cheesy Myneezy

Newbie here, just got 22" m50i black sapphire 22"742. Considering it's the exact same engine detuned, used in the M competition, I'd like to know people's thoughts? I get that some will say no way it's not an M car, others will say it's in between, but technically bmws website when you go to order the car, M50i is under the M setup, combined with the M competition. If you google it, many websites will argue it is "every bit an M car" where others will say absolutely not.

You basically can find info in today's day in age to back up whatever your claim/stance/opinion is.

Thoughts?

In the end, both have an M. So whatever you think it is, is all that matters. The top end M cars have a different engine (many parts are different, not just tuned differently). I believe the chassis tuning is also very different, the seats are different and the exterior styling as well. The M50i is closer inside and out to the Xdrive 40i than the X5M. The M50i replaced the Xdrive 50i, so it's more of badging thing than anything else. But as long as you can enjoy the car, it's all that matter. It has an M logo in the back…back in the day, there used to be a diesel version that used to be sold as M50d and I don't think anyone considered it a 'real' M. It was never sold in the US and I believe was designated as M since it was BMWs most potent diesel. The N63 is not the most powerful gasoline engine, the S63 on the X5M/C is.

But BMW has the right to call any car a 'real' M. Sales of products like the M50i has led to record sales for the M Division. Which is great for the company. It is also making M designated products more accessible for the masses. At the very least, M used to represent the top of the line for BMW. Now M is mid and top, is how I'd think about it.

The M designation to the 50i is likely leading to significant upsells from the 40i since you get into an M for just a little more than a fully loaded 40i. It is clever marketing for sure.

[mobilejo]

I'm not convinced by the arguments in favour of calling it an M car, but its not my opinion that matters.

[Al Pinã]

Drive an X5M and then you'll have your answer.

Definitely not an M car by past, present, or future standards.

This isn't a bad thing though. Many prefer having fairly strong performance without sacrificing the ride quality.

[Cheesy Myneezy]

Originally Posted by Al Pin　

Drive an X5M and then you'll have your answer.

Definitely not an M car by past, present, or future standards.

This isn't a bad thing though. Many prefer having fairly strong performance without sacrificing the ride quality.

I've driven both. I didn't think the M competition was worth the money for 90+ horsepower, different seats, and slightly better handling (my M50i pretty much has every option) nor did it blow me away vs M50i. I did like the seats, wheels, exhaust and subtle styling differences. Also my argument isn't that an M50i is an M car, I just think it is a gray area. I think all arguments probably lean towards it not being an M car, but that also has a lot to do with how the badging is deemed by bmw, and IMO how over the last few years BMW has water down the M brand, making so many options available to the masses. I also think if the M50i was just called like a base model x5M and had the exact everything it does currently, most would think it was then a true M car. Only thing I disagree with is that there isn't a debate at all to begin, that it's 100% clearly not an M car. Again, check their website and how it's grouped with an X5M competition. Agree to disagree.

[nZtiZia]

built by M division but not an ///M vehicle

[Auricom]

Originally Posted by Cheesy Myneezy

Newbie here, just got 22" m50i black sapphire 22"742. Considering it's the exact same engine detuned, used in the M competition, I'd like to know people's thoughts? I get that some will say no way it's not an M car, others will say it's in between, but technically bmws website when you go to order the car, M50i is under the M setup, combined with the M competition. If you google it, many websites will argue it is "every bit an M car" where others will say absolutely not.

You basically can find info in today's day in age to back up whatever your claim/stance/opinion is.

Thoughts?

You should pose your question in the X5/6 M F95/96 forum:

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/fo...play.php?f=705

TL;DR There is more than enough technical differentiation between a M50i (M "Light / M Performance marketing") and a truly specialized X5M/C.

M50i is a phenomenal vehicle for many owners, drivers and driving enthusiasts. For long time BMW enthusiasts, there's a clear differentiation and understanding of the M marketing changes.

And no, the M50i N63TU3 is not the same engine nor a detuned X5M/C S63B44T4. They share the blocks and cylinder dimensions but different cooling and oil passages, fuel system, etc. That's just the start of the differences:

Catalytic converter S63B44T4 engine has 2 catalytic converters per cylinder bank, each with one ceramic monolith

Gearbox F95/96 GM8HP76Z M automatic transmission with Drivelogic is based off of 8HPTU2 gearbox and benefit from significantly improved gear shift responsiveness and even further optimized control of the converter lock-up clutch.

M xDrive used on the F95/F96 is based on the all-wheel drive system of the G12 with the ATC13 transfer box and has been carried over from the F90. The torque generated by the engine is stepped up in the automatic transmission and is supplied
via the transmission output shaft to the transfer box. The transfer box forming the next stage in the drivetrain has the task of varying the torque distribution between the front and rear wheels across the full range from 0:100 % to 100:0 % as demanded by the driving situation.

Drivetrain, front drive shaft was taken over from the G12 for the F95/F96.

Active M Differential carry-over from the F90 and provides Demand-controlled lock. The lock is a demand-controlled rear axle differential lock which is active in the following situations:

• Pullaway
• Differential speed at the rear axle for straight-ahead driving under tension due to various coefficients of friction, left/right
• M dynamic cornering tensioned
• Power oversteer (drifting)
• Stabilization in coasting/overrun mode


Adaptive M suspension (EDC)
Similar to the G05/G06, EDC control valves are also installed at the shock absorbers on the outside. The shock absorbers have been developed with the supplier ZF Sachs and the system has been adapted to the F95/F96.

The EDC works with infinitely variable valves in the absorbers. The hydraulic oil flow is controlled
via electromagnetic control valves. It is thus possible to make available the damping force actually required at all times.

The following variables, among others, were processed into the corresponding control variables in the M vertical dynamic platform (M VDP): vertical acceleration, wheel speeds M DSCi, steering angle change M EPS, angle change rate ACSM and damper piston speed.

In addition, the ride height between the wheel suspension and body is used as a control, reference and load variable and is read off of the ride height sensors of the headlights. Two sensors each are installed at the front and rear. They operate on the basis of the potentiometer principle and their signal is made available to the M vertical dynamic platform (M VDP).

Suspension front axle, double-wishbone front axle from the G05/G06 is used as the front axle. Compared to the standard suspension, the front axle was not lowered. A upper triangular wishbone was adapted in order to achieve the M-specific higher camber values for sportier suspension settings. The rubber mounts of the lower wishbone and the tension strut have been adapted for the F95/F96. The spring strut has been adapted by a separate damper variant together with the coil spring to the F95/F96 and bolted at the top by a newly dimensioned support bearing in the spring strut dome; in addition, the auxiliary damper, installed between the shock absorber and the support bearing on the piston rod, has been adapted.

Suspension rear axle, five-link rear axle known from the G05/G06 is used as the rear axle. The rear axle support of the F95/F96 is however supported by the incorporation of Cellasto discs at the top and bottom of the bolting points of the rear axle bearings. The incorporation of Cellasto discs at the front prevents the rear axle support from tilting at the rear axle support bearings in the event of a marked load reversal. The rear axle support bearings have been adapted in terms of a harder design to the F95/F96. The shock absorbers have been adapted to the F95/F96 by a separate damper variant with outer EDC valves together with the coil spring and bolted at the top with a newly dimensioned support bearing. In addition, the auxiliary spring, installed between the shock absorber and the support bearing on the piston rod, has been adapted. All rubber mounts of the suspension arms have been adapted to the M- specific model.

Rear area of the F95/96, attaching the chassis and suspension components and increasing the vehicle rigidity have implemented in the rear end of the vehicle:
• Strut block adopted from G05/G06
• Tension struts with connection to the strut block and to the rear door sill, front rear axle support
• Triangular struts with connection at door sill, rear axle support at the front and driveshaft

Front area of F95/96, attaching the chassis components and increasing the vehicle rigidity have been implemented in the front end area:
• Dome bulk head struts
• Combined dome-front-end strut
• Stiffening plat

I could continue but thumbs are tired.

[Auricom]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

built by M division but not an ///M vehicle

"Tuned" by

[Auricom]

Originally Posted by FCX5

In the end, both have an M. So whatever you think is all that matters. The top end M cars have a different engine (many parts are different, not just defined). I believe the chassis tuning is also very different, the seats are different and the exterior styling as well. The M50i is closer inside and out to the Xdrive 40i than the X5M. The M50i replaced the Xdrive 50i, so it's more of badging thing than anything else. But as long as you can enjoy the car, it's all that matter. It has an M logo in the back…back in the day there used to be a diesel version that used to be sold as M50d and I don't think anyone considered it a 'real' M.

But BMW has the right to call any car a 'real' M. Sales of products like the M50i has led to record sales for the M Division. Which is great for the company. It is also making M products more accessible for the masses. At the very least, M used to represent the top of the line for BMW. Now M is mid and top…

Chassis is more than tuned different. F95/96 shares the G05 foundation eg front and rear axle but that's the only similarities. See my above post with pics.

[BobsM3Coupe]

Originally Posted by Cheesy Myneezy

M50i is under the M setup, combined with the M competition.

BMW just copied what Audi RS and M-B AMG did with their middle performance models. All for marketing stats.
When I was considering an M50i vs the X5M, I got to test drive the X5MC right after the M50i on the same roads and conditions.
I did like the M50i (it was loaded 22's, DHP). But after switching to the X5MC, the similarity of the two were that they were X5's and each had a V8. Everything involving handling, ride, performance, the visceral feel when driving (very important to me) is way different. As it should be for the difference (about $20K) in price. Which I think is a steal for what the X5M can and does do.
The M50i is a great compromise between the 40i and the X5M.

So after the test rides, it was immediately clear which model I would choose. The X5MC is a different beast from the M50i.

[Cheesy Myneezy]

All good info, but argument also wasn't they are the same lol. Also no matter what you go with/prefer, both vehicles are beasts

[Auricom]

Originally Posted by Cheesy Myneezy

but technically bmw's website when you go to order the car, M50i is under the M setup, combined with the M competition

Technically, it's for general consumers who don't know any better and who want to buy into BMW's M marketing.

[mobilejo]

Originally Posted by Cheesy Myneezy

I also think if the M50i was just called like a base model x5M and had the exact everything it does currently, most would think it was then a true M car.

OK, I love the M50i, but lets be serious for a second - to all extents its an M sport with cerium trim and a V8. Outside of that, it could literally be any other M Sport. Optionally, it can have M50i specific M adaptive suspension with DHP but it doesn't have to, it could be on air like any other G05.

How would dropping a fast M sport and calling it an X5M have fooled anyone if BMW had done as you suggested? People would immediately be saying "but it doesn't look like an M, it looks like an M Sport".

[goobies818]

As an owner of a m50i….no. But it’s still one hellava ride.

On that same tone…would we consider a MB GLE53 a true AMG car or just the GLE63s?

[Joe Gro]

I'm just a regular consumer type. I dont have the kind of inside knowledge that so many people on this forum do. I was in the market for an X5 last summer. I drove the 40i and thought it was pretty good. Then I drove the M50 with DHP. It is clearly a big step above the base model, particularly with acceleration. The DHP improves the handling.

I also was able to drive the X5M. It was immediately apparent to me that it was head and shoulders above the M50, most notably in the overall feel and handling. At the time I couldnt pull the trigger on the M so I bought the M50. It is a fantastic car, but it is in no way an M car. The ///M is just a different level of performance.

Now have an ///M on order

It reminds of the saying-"I dont know anything about art, but I know what I like"

For me, I dont know all the kind of details that have been shown above, but I sure know what I like

Excited to get the new one....

[Delrazdan]

Originally Posted by goobies818

As an owner of a m50i….no. But it’s still one hellava ride.

On that same tone…would we consider a MB GLE53 a true AMG car or just the GLE63s?

Aren’t M competition more equivalent to Brabus?

You can just look at the specs M sports pkg vs M completion. Chassis, suspension, power, torque … I believe x5m is still on the F chassis not g05.
I have not driven x5m but I was Pdc to pick up my car last year and we did the performance track and drove some m cars. Those r a different beast and not sure I would want to haul my family with stiff suspension etc.

Of course every one has different notions and needs and enjoy different things but there is a reason bmw adds “competition “ at the end of true M cars.

[Auricom]

Originally Posted by Delrazdan

Aren't M competition more equivalent to Brabus?

You can just look at the specs M sports pkg vs M completion. Chassis, suspension, power, torque … I believe x5m is still on the F chassis not g05.
I have not driven x5m but I was Pdc to pick up my car last year and we did the performance track and drove some m cars. Those r a different beast and not sure I would want to haul my family with stiff suspension etc.

Of course every one has different notions and needs and enjoy different things but there is a reason bmw adds "competition " at the end of true M cars.

No, F95/96 is not on the F chassis but on G.

"F" for this X5M generation doesn't equate to chassis but model designation and differentiation from G05/06.

F chassis was retired with F15/16's short production run.

[Delrazdan]

thanks for clarifying that.

[Nuckle]

I will chime in again after I take delivery of my M50i on Friday. I don't think I will change my stance but that said I think the M50i will be a much better daily driver. Loved my X5M but for me it wasn't a practical daily driver.