[fstezaws]

I'm creating a new thread even though I had posted a few comments in another thread that was related to issues with the transfer case "binding" or "grinding" while driving at low speeds and sharp turning angles. I thought it would be better to make this a separate thread in case others have similar problems (whether in the past or in the future).

Brought in my 22 X5 M50i (about 17k mile so far, never missed any service intervals) into the local dealer for an issue I was experiencing: at low-speeds and sharp steering angles, there is very extreme binding/stuttering on the front drivetrain. It seemed obvious to me that it was a transfer case issue.

I did some searching and found multiple threads related to transfer case problems with the current X5 and previous generations.

My issue started immediately after driving in the first heavy rain of the summer (southern AZ monsoons). I didn't drive off-road and was only driving on a major road that had maybe 3-5" of water in some areas due to the intense rain. I had actually taken a video in my office parking lot of the intense rain minutes before heading home because it was 119° outside and there was incredible hail coming down.

I noticed the binding when I was pulling into my driveway at home. This is a 2-3 mile drive at most. I thought maybe the rotors were wet, or some leaves or twigs got into some sensor, and that after everything dried out the issue would likely go away. It never did.

After about 4-5 days of experiencing this annoying binding, I dropped my vehicle off at my only local BMW service center and they indicated that there is water in the transfer case and that BMW is not going to cover this under warranty. The initial service advisor claimed that there was going to be zero help from BMW on this and I should call insurance. They hadn't even put a wrench to the vehicle and they're already telling me to get insurance involved. After 2 weeks of really no assistance, I decided to speak with the local service manager directly.

I escalated to the Service Manager and he even said he found himself driving in the same rainstorm I was. He said he would try and go to bat for me with BMW. He was pretty empathetic and I appreciated him just listening. He called back a few days later and said that BMW will only offer 50% coverage on the repair. His response was that BMW states you cannot drive in deep water at more than 3mph. The owner's manual says this in relation to driving in water up to 20" deep. I was on a major road in my city driving with traffic, with at most 3-5" of rain, and it would have been incredibly unsafe to drive only 3mph in a 45mph zone.

I told him I felt this was an unacceptable outcome. He gave me a number to BMW NA to call and file a case to have it investigated further.

I then implored my local dealer to atleast change the fluid out and see if this helps because they hadn't even touched the car at that point. They did and said that the issue didn't resolve. I pointed them to a service bulletin SI B27 02 20 which talks about the same problems with a transfer case and improper fluid from the factory. The bulletin does state that it can take up to 125 miles of driving for the issue to fully resolve.

I called BMW NA to open a case. Their rep was super fantastic! She said it could take up to 5 business days to get a response.

BMW NA called me 2 days later to get my side of the story. At the end of the first call, she was clear that she likely isn't going to be able to offer any help based on what I described. After 3 more days they finally called back (this morning) to reiterate the same, and that "outside influence" cause the issue and not a manufacturing defect.

I shared with the rep that I scoured Youtube and other media pages for videos of how BMW themselves demonstrates using the vehicle, and in at least 4 videos I found multiple examples of them driving through standing water and/or puddles off-road at speeds in excess of at least 20mph (see links below), and in water way deeper than I found myself driving in. When I shared this with the rep at BMW NA she just held her ground and said it wouldn't be their fault still if someone did what they did in the videos.

She claimed that if I was driving off-road and a rock got kicked up and cracked something underneath the car that it wouldn't be BMW's fault. I agree with that. But if water was cast up to the transfer case, any reasonable consumer would expect the transfer case to be fully sealed from outside elements.

I'm mostly just disappointed. It's not about the money (even though they quote ~$7k for the repair), but about the principle of their most popular SAV not being able to withstand "reasonable" amounts of rain.

I'm thinking that maybe buying a domain, creating a video compilation of their ads showing the vehicle being driven in worse conditions than I did, and posting about my experience. While I don't expect them to deviate from their response, I would hope it just raises awareness that there is a possibility BMW will not stand by the quality of their vehicle.

Sadly, this is leaving me with such a sour taste that it may be the last BMW I own...and I've owned 4, including (2) M5s.

Here are some of the videos I found:
Video 1 - at 1:16 time mark
Video 1 - at 1:26 time mark
Video 2 - 0:51 time mark
Video 3 - 0:25 time mark

#3 is the most damning as that is a fast speed in deeper water than I was in, and the video even states "...testing every surface...every weather condition..." at that time marker.

UPDATE 9/14/23 - Improvement!

[eelnoraa]

can you ask how water get into transfer case? If water can get in, fluid will get out. do you remember seeing fluid leaking? if not fluid leaking, just how water can get in? This a fair question.

The other situation I can think of, if somehow the transfer case make contact with something and casing is damager, still fluid leak, water get in ... Only in this case, I would say it is fair for BMW now to cover due to physical damage. if this is the case, it is also fair to ask for pictures of the damage.

Driving over small puddles like shown in those video, no car will have issue.

[fstezaws]

I asked the same thing, how did water get in? Is it possible that there was an actual defect that has let water in? I got very little "reasoning" from them when I asked that question.

The dealer sent me one photo, that's it. If you ask me, the undercarriage looks fairly clean to me.

[The Libertine]

This is beyond comprehension! That BMW advertises its SAVs plowing through rough terrain and weather purporting a rugged and capable vehicle; however, in reality, must slow to a crawl if driving through anything more than a puddle?

OP - very sorry that you are going through this fiasco. I hope you are made whole and the problem is sorted for you without further delay.

[fstezaws]

I had a good call with my local service manager. He said they will cover the fluid change and recalibration on their dime as a goodwill gesture. Half of me thinks this issue will go away per the previously linked SB.

But, I did ask him to send some photos or the video documenting all of this "debris" that they mentioned as an indicator that I was in "deep water".

I swear you can't make this stuff up! A few pine needles and mesquite tree leaves.



A photo of the fluid that came out of the transfer case. It seems obvious that water got in. I then asked him how does water get into the transfer case and he said the technicians have told him that there is some sort of "breather line" at the top of the transfer case, above the 20" depth rating, and it must have gotten knocked off from the water exposure allowing water ingress to the transfer case.

If that is the case, then the advertised methods of using this vehicle as indicated in the videos linked above would certainly have caused a similar issue as mine.

[0_steve]

Wow. This is insulting. I’d keep pushing. There’s no way they can blame this on rain.

[swainbmw]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

I'm creating a new thread even though I had posted a few comments in another thread that was related to issues with the transfer case "binding" or "grinding" while driving at low speeds and sharp turning angles. I thought it would be better to make this a separate thread in case others have similar problems (whether in the past or in the future).

Brought in my 22 X5 M50i (about 17k mile so far, never missed any service intervals) into the local dealer for an issue I was experiencing: at low-speeds and sharp steering angles, there is very extreme binding/stuttering on the front drivetrain. It seemed obvious to me that it was a transfer case issue.

I did some searching and found multiple threads related to transfer case problems with the current X5 and previous generations.

My issue started immediately after driving in the first heavy rain of the summer (southern AZ monsoons). I didn't drive off-road and was only driving on a major road that had maybe 3-5" of water in some areas due to the intense rain. I had actually taken a video in my office parking lot of the intense rain minutes before heading home because it was 119° outside and there was incredible hail coming down.

I noticed the binding when I was pulling into my driveway at home. This is a 2-3 mile drive at most. I thought maybe the rotors were wet, or some leaves or twigs got into some sensor, and that after everything dried out the issue would likely go away. It never did.

After about 4-5 days of experiencing this [...]

Did they mention that the breather tube had become dislodged or removed?

[fstezaws]

Originally Posted by swainbmw

Did they mention that the breather tube had become dislodged or removed?

I just got off the phone with them about 30 mins ago. I asked them how water can get into the transfer case, and this is basically what he told me. He said there is some kind of "breather" tube at the top and it must have become dislodged from the water.

I'm trying to find photos of the transfer case to better appreciate how this might have happened, and, whether or not this should be a considered a manufacturer issue.

[TurtleBoy]

This may help.

[fstezaws]

Perfect, thanks!

Does anyone know if those points of entry are "sealed"? Like, is it damaged, or was water just able to enter because the seals aren't necessarily water-sealed?

[TurtleBoy]

I take it that 3 is an open pipe but I could be wrong about that. I have read that on manuals it is open but not sure about automatics or this instance in particular.

[dream54ing]

We live in AZ as well, phx to be exact, and do understand the extreme storms/rain we get here in the valley. We've driven in the crazy downpour from the monsoon storms every year since purchasing our 40i in 19'. I also recall driving 8+" of water at up to 30mph before slowing down (not intentional), no issue *knock on wood. Are we fortunate to avoid this issue somehow or something you might of missed that could of caused it, hence the denial from BMW?

[swainbmw]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

I just got off the phone with them about 30 mins ago. I asked them how water can get into the transfer case, and this is basically what he told me. He said there is some kind of "breather" tube at the top and it must have become dislodged from the water.

I'm trying to find photos of the transfer case to better appreciate how this might have happened, and, whether or not this should be a considered a manufacturer issue.

Well, if you can prove that the tube became dislodged from driving through water that is on there dime you did not design it they did and it’s their responsibility

[swainbmw]

Originally Posted by swainbmw

Well, if you can prove that the tube became dislodged from driving through water that is on there dime you did not design it they did and it’s their responsibility

Was it dislodged or not even on there??

[fstezaws]

With no issues in 17k miles I would suspect there would be some kind of fluid leak but I have no fluids in my driveway. And because it happened immediately (within 2-3 miles of driving) after driving it is most likely related to this event.

If water can penetrate the hose, or easily knock it off as per the service manager, then ya this is a bit of a faulty design. But if this happens once a in a blue moon then it will never rise to the attention needed for BMW to deem it an issue.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

I had a good call with my local service manager. He said they will cover the fluid change and recalibration on their dime as a goodwill gesture. Half of me thinks this issue will go away per the previously linked SB.

But, I did ask him to send some photos or the video documenting all of this "debris" that they mentioned as an indicator that I was in "deep water".

I swear you can't make this stuff up! A few pine needles and mesquite tree leaves.



A photo of the fluid that came out of the transfer case. It seems obvious that water got in. I then asked him how does water get into the transfer case and he said the technicians have told him that there is some sort of "breather line" at the top of the transfer case, above the 20" depth rating, and it must have gotten knocked off from the water exposure allowing water ingress to the transfer case.

If that is the case, then the advertised methods of using this vehicle as indicated in the videos linked above would certainly have caused a similar issue as mine.

damn, this is bad, the forbidden milk shake.

the area where that hose is, it is highly unlikely to see water pressure. but how fast and how deep of water did you drive through?

[cellarrat]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

I had a good call with my local service manager. He said they will cover the fluid change and recalibration on their dime as a goodwill gesture. Half of me thinks this issue will go away per the previously linked SB.

But, I did ask him to send some photos or the video documenting all of this "debris" that they mentioned as an indicator that I was in "deep water".

I swear you can't make this stuff up! A few pine needles and mesquite tree leaves.



A photo of the fluid that came out of the transfer case. It seems obvious that water got in. I then asked him how does water get into the transfer case and he said the technicians have told him that there is some sort of "breather line" at the top of the transfer case, above the 20" depth rating, and it must have gotten knocked off from the water exposure allowing water ingress to the transfer case.

If that is the case, then the advertised methods of using this vehicle as indicated in the videos linked above would certainly have caused a similar issue as mine.

A jaded or suspicious mind might say that the foliage looks stuck in there post hoc. Not me, you understand, but someone who is skeptical.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

With no issues in 17k miles I would suspect there would be some kind of fluid leak but I have no fluids in my driveway. And because it happened immediately (within 2-3 miles of driving) after driving it is most likely related to this event.

If water can penetrate the hose, or easily knock it off as per the service manager, then ya this is a bit of a faulty design. But if this happens once a in a blue moon then it will never rise to the attention needed for BMW to deem it an issue.

Trying to make sense out of all this.. .. Looks like the hose snaps into its hole atop the xfer case and the other end of the vent hose does the same into some other part so it appears that if both ends were properly attached, the xfer case is then sealed from the outside world. I don't see where there's anything to lock it into place, like a screw or clip for example. It might have an o-ring to help seal it, can't quite tell from the pic but it's in a location that is just about impossible for anything to be able to touch it even if you were driving through a jungle. Personally if the tube was properly snapped into place, I would find it pretty dang difficult to believe water forced it up and out of its hole.
- There is a protective belly pan that needs to be removed in order to gain access to that area and the vent tube is not in a user accessible area during routine maintenance for anything
- Are you the original owner? If so, then you know all the places the car has had any sort of service work done, right?
- Has it been into service for any drivetrain, driveshaft related work?
- Could it be that the factory did not properly snap it into place and it was just resting atop the vent hole all this time? I would ask your service manage what holds it in place?
- Is it possible that during one of the service appts, the hose was removed and not properly snapped back into its hole? Then with enough water pressure it was moved up and out of the hole so some water could get in?
- Is it also possible that water ingress could be a major reason why we see so many 8 cyl owners getting xfer cases replaced or oil replaced? I don’t know if it's any different than the xfer case in the 6 cyl.

If it were me, I'd keep pushing and pushing to find the root cause of the water ingress and then who pays for the repair should be evident.

[fstezaws]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

damn, this is bad, the forbidden milk shake.

the area where that hose is, it is highly unlikely to see water pressure. but how fast and how deep of water did you drive through?

I drove through 3 lanes of traffic on a fairly popular street during rush hour around 5pm. The center of the road had the least amount of water as it drains to the right-most lane. I might have been in the right lane with 4-6" of water for a little bit before moving to the center lane. I was at most travelling no more than 15mph, because everyone around me doesn't know how to drive even when it sprinkles so it all comes to a slow halt.

Originally Posted by cellarrat

A jaded or suspicious mind might say that the foliage looks stuck in there post hoc. Not me, you understand, but someone who is skeptical.

I don't think the "debris" was planted there. That just looks like an area where debris is going to get caught because its basically a flappy unfastened section of a panel.

Originally Posted by Marty in NY

- Are you the original owner? If so, then you know all the places the car has had any sort of service work done, right?

Yes, I'm the original owner. I take care of my cars and never miss a service interval. I never question regular maintenance, fluid changes, rotations, new tires, etc. I used to build 600hp+ japanese tuners and built engines myself, so I'm fairly mechanical and understand more about how the mechanics and systems work in cars than probably 98% of the population.

The only work that has been done has been oil changes (this is the 2nd at ~17k miles) and new tires (about 2k miles ago).

- Has it been into service for any drivetrain, driveshaft related work?

No, no issues whatsoever in my ownership so far.

- Could it be that the factory did not properly snap it into place and it was just resting atop the vent hole all this time? I would ask your service manage what holds it in place?

Who knows, your guess is as good as mine.

- Is it possible that during one of the service appts, the hose was removed and not properly snapped back into its hole? Then with enough water pressure it was moved up and out of the hole so some water could get in?

Again, who knows.

- Is it also possible that water ingress could be a major reason why we see so many 8 cyl owners getting xfer cases replaced or oil replaced? I don’t know if it's any different than the xfer case in the 6 cyl.

If it were me, I'd keep pushing and pushing to find the root cause of the water ingress and then who pays for the repair should be evident.

I'm going to keep pushing purely out of principle.

I would totally own up to some offroading trek where a rock damaged the frame, axles, control arms, driveshaft, etc. But this isn't just an "unfortunate" accident of playing with a toy and then getting bit in the butt. This is a normal, everyday driving environment in conditions that 99% of car owners would have found "reasonable" to be in.

So ya, I'm wired to not let this kind of crap slide because I know there are too many people out there who will get hosed on this kind of stuff.

[2heeldrive]

I can understand why BMW isn't interested in taking care of it.

Unless the breather hose was not installed properly at the factory, I don't see that they have any liability here.

That's a lot of water in the oil... perhaps the water was deeper than it looked, or a pressure wave built up under the car. How is the transmission, differential, driveshaft, etc.? Have they been checked for water intrusion?

I think your best course of action is to get your insurance company involved. Flood/water damage should be covered under the comprehensive part of your policy.

Good Luck!

[SwissBeemer]

Originally Posted by fstezaws

I'm mostly just disappointed. It's not about the money (even though they quote ~$7k for the repair), but about the principle of their most popular SAV not being able to withstand "reasonable" amounts of rain.

Just FYI there's shops in Germany that specialize in repairing broken transfer cases that usually quote around 1.000€ for the work. Maybe you have someone similar in your area, or in the US at least.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by 2heeldrive

I can understand why BMW isn't interested in taking care of it.

Unless the breather hose was not installed properly at the factory, I don't see that they have any liability here.

That's a lot of water in the oil... perhaps the water was deeper than it looked, or a pressure wave built up under the car. How is the transmission, differential, driveshaft, etc.? Have they been checked for water intrusion?

I think your best course of action is to get your insurance company involved. Flood/water damage should be covered under the comprehensive part of your policy.

Good Luck!

This is probably going to come down to the honesty and support of the dealer the OP took it to. Assuming they are the one and only to have looked at the breather hose area, only they would know what it looked like. ie: was it loose? Just resting atop its hole? completely out of the hole and sitting to the side or? I cannot believe BMW or any mfg would design an improper fitment that would allow water to push it up and out of the hole, given where its located. First the water needs to get past the protective belly pan, then it needs to still have sufficient force against what is probably no more than 3/8" round and manage to pull it out of place. Just cannot see that happening unless it was not properly in the hole to begin with.
Yes, it's the big fish, little fish story here but certainly, would anyone in their right mind actually believe the owner was at fault?