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      09-25-2019, 09:05 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Never heard of him, I will look into it more.

FWIW I hope he/you and the climate change deniers are right. I’d have no problem being wrong on this one. But, we still have massive pollution issues that need to be dealt with in a number of areas for a number of reasons. Another topic in a way I know, but still very much related.
I'm all for keeping our environment clean, conservation, and not harming our ecology but I can't get behind junk science and trying to ban a gas that is a key part of life on our planet and degrading the quality of life of billion of people off of bad assumption and unproven hypothesis.

Just to make my position clear
I believe the climate changes, it insane not to
I believe we are in a constant transition phase the climate is not static
I believe we should have sound policy and production that does the least amount of harm to mankind and nature
But I don't believe in a global man made climate change due to co2 production from man.
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      09-25-2019, 09:28 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
I was hoping you got what I meant as it is hard to explain for me via text.

He hasn't and I'm pretty sure never will. What I'm saying is nearly all politicians from every party parade their kids around political events to promote the "perfect family" I'm great person blah blah blah etc. They use their kids to passively shill for them and I'm guessing most of the time against their will as in I'm sure they'd rather not be on stage/tv in front of thousands/millions of people. I wish it would stop because it is stupid and meaningless to whether the candidate will be good at whatever office they are running for.

Hopefully that explains it a bit better.
Okay, that helps clear it up. I inferred an equivalence that you hadn't asserted. Agree with all your points about "hiding behind the children" in all its nefarious forms.
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      09-26-2019, 07:49 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
This is exactly what I’ve been saying. Was the Barron attack more out of line, I’d say a big yes, but the attacks on Greta are out of line/not right either.

Barron has been shown on camera plenty in a passive way to shill for his Dad. I’m guessing he and many other kids in his situation would rather be doing anything else. All politicians do the parade their kids around political events thing and I hate it. It has zero to do it if they are a good candidate or not.
So getting captured on reporters cameras getting out of a car or off a plane with his parents is a case of a “passive shill? We hardly ever see the kid and I can’t hardly remember his parents or anyone in the admin even speaking his name.
Greta on the other hand stages an entrance into the USA on her boat akin to Cleopatra entrance into Rome then proceeds to take the stage at the UN and comes out guns blazing against those who she feels are committing crimes against the earth. Trying to in any way equate the two is so disingenuous.
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      09-26-2019, 08:35 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
The message is crap check the Finland topic where i mention that the new model that include solar particles have failed to show climate forcing by man made activity and it the main driving force over the head of the wmo who also was the chief the world is doom suddenly singing a new tune as of late as the writting on the wall man made global warming is junk science and will noin the dust pan of history along with eugenics and static universe.

Excellent book on how junk science mmgw is just was release
https://www.amazon.com/kikoukagakush...1&unfiltered=1
for someone who has so many kids which equates to being smarter than someone like me with no kids, you really are terrible at reading...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

This is taken out if wiki. Mind you it might be the same in any respectable medical text book.

“Pursuit of specific and narrow areas of interest is one of the most striking among possible features of AS.[10] Individuals with AS may collect volumes of detailed information on a relatively narrow topic such as weather data or star names without necessarily having a genuine understanding of the broader topic.”

But having just read all about the condition i would say that....

You have little understanding about aspergers syndrome. Give the link a read.

“Without understanding the broader topic.” The child does not know what she is talking about either.
what are you even trying to argue here? that Aspergers isnt classified as an intellectual or mental disability?
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      09-26-2019, 08:38 AM   #159
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https://theintercept.com/2019/09/13/...klein-climate/

She actually said this, 8:02

“If we can save the banks, we can save the world”



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      09-26-2019, 09:19 AM   #160
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/toronto...ate-change/amp

“For example, Vancouver had a higher record temperature in 1910 (30.6C) than in 2017 (29.5C).

Toronto had a warmer summer in 1852 (32.2C) than in 2017 (31.7C).

The highest temperature in Moncton in 2017 was four degrees cooler than in 1906.

Brandon, Man., had 49 days where the average daily temperature was above 20C in 1936, compared to only 16 in 2017, with a high temperature of 43.3C that year compared to 34.3C in 2017.“

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      09-26-2019, 09:30 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
for someone who has so many kids which equates to being smarter than someone like me with no kids, you really are terrible at reading...




what are you even trying to argue here? that Aspergers isnt classified as an intellectual or mental disability?
Go to my next post please explain what portion of the discussion am I wrong?
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      09-26-2019, 09:34 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
I'm all for keeping our environment clean, conservation, and not harming our ecology but I can't get behind junk science and trying to ban a gas that is a key part of life on our planet and degrading the quality of life of billion of people off of bad assumption and unproven hypothesis.

Just to make my position clear
I believe the climate changes, it insane not to
I believe we are in a constant transition phase the climate is not static
I believe we should have sound policy and production that does the least amount of harm to mankind and nature
But I don't believe in a global man made climate change due to co2 production from man.
For the first part I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but if you really believe that I don't see how you can support Trump and a lot of Republicans. They are actively rolling back every EPA protection for the environment there is.

That last part is what the whole dispute is about. If it is faster than normal climate change and if humans are the cause. This is where we obviously disagree.

I will look into the author/data/claims you referenced though when I get time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
The Maunder Minimum, also known as the "prolonged sunspot minimum", is the name used for the period around 1645 to 1715 during which sunspots became exceedingly rare, as was then noted by solar observers.

On china

Under the paris agreement china is listed as a developing economy and subject to lower pollution restrictions as developed countries.

I dont know about anybody else but if your country is the second largest economy in the world then why should it still be listed as developing?
Yes, which was also part of the Little Ice Age. The sun goes through regular 11 (IIRC) cycles and now NASA and other agencies are discovering that it probably goes through much longer cycles as well simultaneously. Why wouldn't they "admit it" it is what they do and everything isn't a conspiracy. Besides in the peer reviewed reports solar energy is taken into effect in them.

Last I have not heard of large scale crop failures such as happened in the Little Ice Age period either so I'm unsure where you are trying to go with this. Some of that is due to current farming technology for sure, but there are reports of years without summers doing that time period. I don't recall that ever happening in my life time.
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      09-26-2019, 09:37 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldPump View Post
https://www.google.com/amp/s/toronto...ate-change/amp

“For example, Vancouver had a higher record temperature in 1910 (30.6C) than in 2017 (29.5C).

Toronto had a warmer summer in 1852 (32.2C) than in 2017 (31.7C).

The highest temperature in Moncton in 2017 was four degrees cooler than in 1906.

Brandon, Man., had 49 days where the average daily temperature was above 20C in 1936, compared to only 16 in 2017, with a high temperature of 43.3C that year compared to 34.3C in 2017.“

Now tell us what the average yearly temps were for those time periods in those places compared to now.
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      09-26-2019, 09:39 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Now tell us what the average yearly temps were for those time periods in those places compared to now.
Something like this
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      09-26-2019, 09:41 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
exist.

We have failed to accurately measure Man Made Co2 output contribution to the Climate.
I find it strange that folks choose to believe the couple percent of outliers vs the vast majority of climatologists who understand that man has negatively affected the planet. I have always wondered who intelligent folks choose to follow this path.

I think there are a number of reasons:

1. Liberals believe it thus conservatives don't. Now I really believe that liberals believe it not because of better understanding but they are more prone to believe University/Government research. Conservatives believe the opposite bc they associate smokestacks with industrial prosperity.

2. People in general want to deny that we could be fucking up the planet.

3. But in general both sides chose (in many cases) not to take the trouble to really study the science.

But to your point. Its very simple to understand the contribution of man-made CO2.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ities-updated/

Knowing that polar molecules absorb UV allows one to calculate the percentage of contribution of the total CO2 that can be contributed to MMGW.

The tired argument that bc we don't understand some things in total (like overall contribution to GW by cloud cover) and thus throw up our hands is just an excuse for denial of processes that we know contribute to GW.

The simple fact is that billions of tons of ice melting each year coupled with the huge heat sink of the oceans are keeping the planet livable.

But I get a chuckle over the lack of intellectual laziness..carry on...

BTW that graph is 100% laughable..bunch of peaks and valleys with no quantitative data or source info. Thanks for the laugh.

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      09-26-2019, 09:42 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
For the first part I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but if you really believe that I don't see how you can support Trump and a lot of Republicans. They are actively rolling back every EPA protection for the environment there is.

That last part is what the whole dispute is about. If it is faster than normal climate change and if humans are the cause. This is where we obviously disagree.

I will look into the author/data/claims you referenced though when I get time.



Yes, which was also part of the Little Ice Age. The sun goes through regular 11 (IIRC) cycles and now NASA and other agencies are discovering that it probably goes through much longer cycles as well simultaneously. Why wouldn't they "admit it" it is what they do and everything isn't a conspiracy. Besides in the peer reviewed reports solar energy is taken into effect in them.

Last I have not heard of large scale crop failures such as happened in the Little Ice Age period either so I'm unsure where you are trying to go with this. Some of that is due to current farming technology for sure, but there are reports of years without summers doing that time period. I don't recall that ever happening in my life time.
Please cite a regulation that he repealed that actually is scientifically back up to be harmful to the overall environment.
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      09-26-2019, 09:43 AM   #167
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Zugzwang, the answer to your China questions are math.

What would the USs emissions be if we had 1 billion more people at our current per capita usage? It would be about 4-5 times more than what it is now dwarfing China's current output.

China also recognizes the problem and is actively doing something about it. The wins for them huge resulting in a much better environment for them, a renewable source for a much more sustainable economy. Less to know reliance on foreign powers on energy needs. Last and why I linked the Republican plans here which nobody cares about is cornering a new industry and controlling it for decades to come. The US needs to get off of their ass and get on board for the last two reasons alone even if nobody here believes in global warming/climate change.
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      09-26-2019, 09:44 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Please cite a regulation that he repealed that actually is scientifically back up to be harmful to the overall environment.
I already did either in this thread or the California Auto EPA one, I'm not sure. Just do a simple google search and you'll find about 80 of them and counting.
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      09-26-2019, 09:45 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by DonaldPump View Post
Something like this
Nope.
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      09-26-2019, 09:48 AM   #170
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DonaldPump, it has been roughly 10-15 degrees warmer than average that last couple of weeks. WI just had a major EF3 tornado the other day (it's Fall) so that then proves climate change/global warming by your logic correct?

For the 17,000,000th time or so daily weather/small time periods are much different than long term trends.
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      09-26-2019, 09:52 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
So getting captured on reporters cameras getting out of a car or off a plane with his parents is a case of a “passive shill? We hardly ever see the kid and I can’t hardly remember his parents or anyone in the admin even speaking his name.
Greta on the other hand stages an entrance into the USA on her boat akin to Cleopatra entrance into Rome then proceeds to take the stage at the UN and comes out guns blazing against those who she feels are committing crimes against the earth. Trying to in any way equate the two is so disingenuous.
Dragging your kids on stage at major political rallies is "getting captured on reporters cameras getting out of a car or off of a plane?"

Yes it does against their will the vast majority of the time is my guess.



Many many more like that if you just search.
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      09-26-2019, 10:00 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
DonaldPump, it has been roughly 10-15 degrees warmer than average that last couple of weeks. WI just had a major EF3 tornado the other day (it's Fall) so that then proves climate change/global warming by your logic correct?

For the 17,000,000th time or so daily weather/small time periods are much different than long term trends.
My graph shows a time period of 5k years, well before the industrial revolution. It clearly shows that no significant change has occurred since our carbon emissions have increased in the 21st century.

It seems you are trying to set up a straw man argument since my graph destroyed your POV, maybe try combatting the data in my graph instead.
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      09-26-2019, 10:14 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Dragging your kids on stage at major political rallies is "getting captured on reporters cameras getting out of a car or off of a plane?"

Yes it does against their will the vast majority of the time is my guess.



Many many more like that if you just search.
That looks like a State of the Union and all the family is there. Are you implying that The First Family shouldn’t attend events like that with their President father ? Are you saying that’s the same as a kid grabbing a microphone and arguing policy? Come on man.
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      09-26-2019, 10:33 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
That looks like a State of the Union and all the family is there. Are you implying that The First Family shouldn’t attend events like that with their President father ? Are you saying that’s the same as a kid grabbing a microphone and arguing policy? Come on man.
It’s all in my previous posts multiple times if you wish to read them.

Also, as I said that is one of many, I was just highlighting how happy all of them are to be at these events. And he for sure will be at more for the re-election campaign.
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      09-26-2019, 10:34 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldPump View Post
My graph shows a time period of 5k years, well before the industrial revolution. It clearly shows that no significant change has occurred since our carbon emissions have increased in the 21st century.

It seems you are trying to set up a straw man argument since my graph destroyed your POV, maybe try combatting the data in my graph instead.
That graph is worthless as is your logic with the liar liar post as I just so happened to prove.
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      09-26-2019, 10:41 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
man has negatively affected the planet. I have always wondered who intelligent folks choose to follow this path.

I agree that man has made an impact. The unresolved question is how much, and so we can't put a value on making adjustments.

1. Liberals believe it thus conservatives don't. Now I really believe that liberals believe it not because of better understanding but they are more prone to believe University/Government research. Conservatives believe the opposite bc they associate smokestacks with industrial prosperity.

I would place myself in the conservative camp. I don't chose to question the models because liberals believe them, I chose to question because so far, the models don't seem to correctly, or even closely, match what is really happening. Maybe they need some more tweaks. Maybe there are just too many variables for our current science to correctly model. But since the model is incorrect, any decisions made based on a flawed model are themselves flawed.

2. People in general want to deny that we could be fucking up the planet.
Oh, we have royally fucked up mother Ocean The scars we have left on Mother Earth's skin are appalling. But that has very little to do with ACC.

3. But in general both sides chose (in many cases) not to take the trouble to really study the science.
I don't know the exact science of climatology. But I do understand modeling, and statistics. The models are not correct at thi point. Again, if the models are not correct, we can't make a logical decision on where to apply the most effective pressure to change the results, so we can't make a policy decision.

The tired argument that bc we don't understand some things in total (like overall contribution to GW by cloud cover) and thus throw up our hands is just an excuse for denial of processes that we know contribute to GW.

Come back with a model that works, and I'm ready to make a change to my daily activity. Should I stop driving? Are you then going to bring food to my house? Will that diesel delivery truck spew less than my current mode of transportation? If I could completely work from home, not waste the water of a shower every day, the energy and waste product of washing the clothes, the lights and equipment energy in the office. . . But which of my activities should I work on first, to produce the biggest bang? The model doesn't tell me that.

The simple fact is that billions of tons of ice melting each year coupled with the huge heat sink of the oceans are keeping the planet livable.

And which particular model shows us just how magnificent this world really is, where that breaking point exists, if at all?

BTW that graph is 100% laughable..bunch of peaks and valleys with no quantitative data or source info. Thanks for the laugh.

How much better are the IPCC models?
I know you have lived thru and seen some REMARKABLE changes in the world. I envy your experience of awe and wonder. There is still room to see more. Hopefully those damn whippersnappers will hurry up with the intergalactic space travel and transmutation of matter/energy/matter so I don't have to sit in traffic or a damn airplane for much longer.
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