[SpiralOut]

Originally Posted by adc

I still don’t understand why you installed the B&W grilles when there is not one B&W component in the car.

Right, it's a controversial thing for sure. It's mainly cosmetic just for the cool lighting effects. My thinking was if I add the B&W grills and upgrade the system so it sounds way better than the OEM B&W then I can be okay with it, but I couldn't be ok with just slapping the B&W grills on a stock HK system.

[SpiralOut]

Originally Posted by Green_Power

Congrats on the upgrade!!! Looks like a fantastic setup. I am considering going the same route.

Could you elaborate on the step 3: „the additional MEC Card because we need 1 extra input channel for our system, and the BMW specific wiring harness to wire it into the HK Amp and RAM module.“

I thought the HK amp was a 9 channel and the Match UP is a 10 channel. Could you explain what the additional MEC Card is for? Is this only for X5 or for all upgrades from HK to Match UP10?

Thanks!

It is a bit confusing when it comes to the MEC card. It normally would not be needed because you could make it work with less inputs, but to make it truly plug and play with the harness and existing HK amp, it's using the existing speaker sets as the inputs to the Match amp and then just running the outputs of the Match out and back through the existing wiring via the harness. So the HK system in our cars has 9 speaker groups (2 fronts, 2 rears, 2 hatch area, 2 subs, and 1 center), but the match amp only has 8 input channels.... so the MEC card is required to give us that 1 extra input for the center channel.

[Green_Power]

Was the Match UP10 a direct fit/swap for the HK bracket or how what did you need to do to mount the amplifier securely?

[SpiralOut]

Originally Posted by Green_Power

Was the Match UP10 a direct fit/swap for the HK bracket or how what did you need to do to mount the amplifier securely?

Haven't actually mounted it yet. I did not remove the HK Amp or the brackets, those will stay where they are. Right now it's sitting down in that little area behind the cover and doesn't really move around very much. When everything is set the way I want, I'll probably just zip tie it in there so it's more secure.

[DocWeatherington]

Awesome post

[Teutonic]

I IS


harmAn kardon not harmOn kardon for Gods sake!

[PinkNinja400Guy]

I made a more detailed writeup on installing the B&W speaker grilles in the X7 forum (it's the exact same as the X5):

https://g07.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1955756

The H/K grilles are black which can look pretty bad depending on what leather & trim you have. Additionally the B&W grilles are illuminated, they look great at night.

But there are apparently some really smart people on this forum; congrats to adc and Blue Angel for figuring out the truth: I'm a poor person who couldn't afford the B&W system, yet I still want to show off and look cool. That's the only reason I did this mod on the interior of my car. Imagine having H/K branded speakers in your car... Oh, the horror! Now that I have the Bowers & Wilkins text on the grilles, my manhood has been restored and I no longer have to feel insecure about my vehicle. I transport lots of strangers in my X7 and I always make sure to point out the B&W logo to them as soon as they get in the car. Oh, I almost forgot to mention, I also take my underwear and socks to a tailor to get them rebadged from Hanes to Banana Republic. Gotta have the best brands, right?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by timmahh

Meh. B&W, B&O, HK. Don't make a fuss, in the automotive world, these are all incremental upgrades from Harman international across various brands.

... and Harman was bought by Samsung several years ago.

So, Harman-Samsung owns/controls the following car audio brands/systems, as well as several underlying technologies in the automotive world:

AKG
Harman/Kardon
Infinity
JBL
Lexicon
Mark Levinson
Revel
Bang & Olufsen (licensed)
Bowers & Wilkins (licensed)

I see no point in ranking "3 series equivalents" when they're all being manufactured by the same company.

At each level, there are incremental improvements and better audio of course. No doubt if I had a B&W or B&O system over my HK, I would love it, but that doesn't immediately mean the HK system is "suited for a Civic" or something.

With others though, I wouldn't toss B&O or B&W grilles into my car when there are no relevant components. The blanks would be OK in my humble opinion because they look cool. Suppose it's equivalent to badging your car as an M320i. Not my car though so my thoughts don't really matter for OP.

Btw, this is not to knock Harman-Samsung at all. I previously had a great HK home theatre system, but it eventually died. I went to Vizio surround-sound bars, and they all bugged out after a year. This time I bit the expense and did a Samsung atmos system and it's fucking amazing (probably because they're using Harman components ).

I will make this very confident statement... it is the "worst upgraded" stereo I've ever had in a car... they downgraded the HK system to 460 W and are using inferior speakers where the sub from below the seat produces next to 0 bass. I had a 360W Bose stereo in a Civic once and shockingly that was better from a base/mid perspective. Conversely... the B&O i've heard in an Audi was extremely good but the B&W I've heard in an M5 / X5M was yet another level... so again, there are levels to this.

[timmahh]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I will make this very confident statement... it is the "worst upgraded" stereo I've ever had in a car... they downgraded the HK system to 460 W and are using inferior speakers where the sub from below the seat produces next to 0 bass. I had a 360W Bose stereo in a Civic once and shockingly that was better from a base/mid perspective. Conversely... the B&O i've heard in an Audi was extremely good but the B&W I've heard in an M5 / X5M was yet another level... so again, there are levels to this.

Definitely levels (as I alluded to with incremental upgrades as you 'move up'), but I guess my point is someone who says Lexicon is better than HK, or some other comparison, they're all from the same factory.

I am personally happy with the HK system, but potentially because I've never had B&O/W. I've done base BMW stereos twice and it's effing horrid after having the upgraded HK product.

What downgrade are you referring to by the way? Was the F15 HK system higher powered?

Anywho, tl;dr, when an Audi guy says his B&O is better than your BMW B&W just remind him it's all made in the same shop

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by timmahh

Definitely levels (as I alluded to with incremental upgrades as you 'move up'), but I guess my point is someone who says Lexicon is better than HK, or some other comparison, they're all from the same factory.

I am personally happy with the HK system, but potentially because I've never had B&O/W. I've done base BMW stereos twice and it's effing horrid after having the upgraded HK product.

What downgrade are you referring to by the way? Was the F15 HK system higher powered?

Anywho, tl;dr, when an Audi guy says his B&O is better than your BMW B&W just remind him it's all made in the same shop

Isnt that like saying the X5M and the X3 Sdrive 30i are made in the same factory? I mean yeah... but...

[timmahh]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Isnt that like saying the X5M and the X3 Sdrive 30i are made in the same factory? I mean yeah... but...

No, I guess what I mean there is, is there a difference between a 16 speaker BMW B&W X5 and a 16 speaker Audi Q8 B&O? Or a 12 speaker HK and 12 speaker lexicon, etc.

My argument isn’t that HK is the same as B&O, ie your X3 X5M reference.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by timmahh

No, I guess what I mean there is, is there a difference between a 16 speaker BMW B&W X5 and a 16 speaker Audi Q8 B&O? Or a 12 speaker HK and 12 speaker lexicon, etc.

My argument isn’t that HK is the same as B&O, ie your X3 X5M reference.

I personally think there is just based on experience... again, it may just be the vehicle manufacturer speccing a better system from the audio company and it's hard to say B&Ois better than HK blatantly but from every system I've heard it had been the case. I'll say the older L7 HK system was far more comparable so perhaps bmw just said we need a cheaper system and they just slapped the hk name on it... that type of stuff affects brand image.

[PinkNinja400Guy]

Originally Posted by timmahh

No, I guess what I mean there is, is there a difference between a 16 speaker BMW B&W X5 and a 16 speaker Audi Q8 B&O? Or a 12 speaker HK and 12 speaker lexicon, etc.

My argument isn’t that HK is the same as B&O, ie your X3 X5M reference.

Yes. Harman has a bunch of audio engineers who help design the systems, then they slap a brand (H/K, B&W, B&O, Lexicon, ...) onto it for marketing purposes. But each system is unique.

The engineering for each car is different, and the components can be of varying quality. I'm not sure whether an Audi B&O speaker is the same quality as a Volvo B&O speaker, but those B&O speakers are definitely different from B&W speakers and H/K speakers, even though they're all designed by Harman.

The car manufacturer decides how much $$$ they want to allocate to audio, Harman works with them to design a system at that price point. Which is why Audi B&O and Volvo B&O and BMW B&W and Genesis Lexicon can have vastly different sound quality, even though they're all from the top Harman brands and cost roughly the same amount of money to add as an option.

And the engineering behind this can be very complex, things like the exact positioning of the speakers are critical. Ideally the car manufacturer plans for this in the very initial stages of development and is able to design the door panels to accommodate the speakers in the best way. Things like the materials used on the inside of the car can also have an impact.

So even if all B&O car speakers are identical, there can still be a big difference between for example and Audi 16-speaker B&O system and a Volvo 16-speaker B&O system. Because Volvo might budget more money for their sound system - both the actual parts (speakers, amp) and may spend more engineering time/$ on designing the entire rest of the car to get the best sound quality.

For what it's worth, reviews of the iX and new 7er/i7 generally praise their B&W systems (not the same as the X5/X7 B&W systems) as the best car sound systems on the market. A level above all the B&O, Lexicon, Levinson systems out there (and the previous BMW B&W system on our X5s and X7s).

[schummiking]

Great write up!

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by PinkNinja400Guy

Imagine having H/K branded speakers in your car... Oh, the horror! Now that I have the Bowers & Wilkins text on the grilles, my manhood has been restored and I no longer have to feel insecure about my vehicle.

I feel your pain… I live that horror every single day, those HK logos glaring at me, reminding me there’s something better that I don’t have. Literally my #1 first world problem, constantly slapping me in the face.

You sir may not have a Bowers and Wilkins stereo in your X7, but at least you have a sense of humor.

Now if you’ll excuse me… I have to go debadge my car. 😁

[LSM]

Impressive man!!! Very well done!

[M Division]

Originally Posted by SpiralOut

Step 1 - B&W Grills and Focal Inside PnP Speakers:

I followed the thread on the forum about replacing the speaker grills with the B&W grills from AliExpress. These grills are amazing, quality is spot on and they look great. The lights on the mids are maybe not as bright as the real thing, but still looks great. Installation is not too hard, but certainly takes time and patience. It involves taking the door panels off, and then almost disassembling the door panel to replace the grills with the B&W ones. There are lots of light strips and wires in there so you do have to be careful not to break stuff. The tweeter housings are a little tricky because the clips are pretty fragile and I had to trim the foam in the housings quite a bit to get the new ones to fit properly. Installing these B&W covers took me the better part of 2 days, but I was really taking my time with these and end was result was great. Center cover was fairly easy to change, but hooking the light up required taking some dash/gauge cluster trim off and fishing the wire through the dash which is doable, but a pretty frustrating process.

Pretty sure this is the set I ordered:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803197760239.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1 3.aee1e87b2vgC1G&algo_pvid=c7781d7c-19b8-410e-8860-4b4f25615425&algo_exp_id=c7781d7c-19b8-410e-8860-4b4f25615425-6&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000025526870704 %22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%211199.98%21719.99%21 %21%21%21%21%40212249c216714800291516867d0780%2112 000025526870704%21sea&curPageLogUid=NGiXINhMye0t

Here's a good thread [...]

Learn to swim. Question authority. Spiral Out.

[SexyRoger]

[QUOTE=Quadruple VANOS;29661386]

Originally Posted by ASAP

lol... in the audio world Bowers and Wilkins is like a Rolls Royce... whearas Bang and Olufsen and Harmon Kardon are at best BMW 3 series.

This audio engineer/professional audiophile would take issue with suggesting B&O is akin to a 3 Series. B&O’s home products, while heavily biased towards cutting edge aesthetic design, hold very serious performance capabilities. Besides, B&O is much more rare and fashionable than something as common as a 3 Series. I’d say B&O is more like a Pagani. Their $3000 Beosound 2 is a great example. Kicks just about everything else’s butt (audio performace wise) in the tabletop all-in-one category… even B&W’s offerings.

All this being said, I’d rather have B&W towers than B&O. Just don’t be mistaken… B&O is serious performance product once you’re past the portable Bluetooth speakers.

B&O are great.

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

never heard of b and w. Are they actually good quality stuff?

😆🤣😂

[Kstoff125]

I’ve got the HK system in my M4 and M5cs, plus both my AMGs and it gets the job done. Definitely not as good as the B&W but still a solid system.

If you want to hear crap, check out any pre-2015 Ferrari. The systems they put in those cars is so bad your first thought is it has to be broken.

While I’m an audiophile, in the car the engine is the best audio system 😎.

I will say B&W would be a midrange brand when it comes to true audiophile equipment…still great stuff but I’m not sure they would be considered in that upper atmosphere of speakers.

Great write up…a great example of what makes this forum and the community so awesome. Thank you for that. 👌

[Blue Angel]

B&W and B&O are both fairly prestigious brands who make home audio speakers that I’m sure would be embarrassed to admit relation to anything installed in most cars. The cabinet engineering in even their most basic home offerings is leaps and bounds more advanced than ANY car door or rear parcel shelf.

I’m honestly amazed that either company allows itself to have their name on such stuff. There must be copious licensing dollars to make it worthwhile, along with a serious assumption that most people have no idea what constitutes good sound.

A fairly basic home setup from either company in anything resembling a decent listening environment would put these car systems to absolute shame in most objective and subjective categories.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by ASAP

lol... in the audio world Bowers and Wilkins is like a Rolls Royce... whearas Bang and Olufsen and Harmon Kardon are at best BMW 3 series.

Not true and greatly exagerated.

1.Yeah B&W make SOME great speakers. That’s it!
The research for analyzing sound, positions, materiales, reverberations and so on belongs strictly to Harman Kardon.
B&W practically enjoy those guys work by installing their better speakers.

2. Harman Kardon sounds amazing if you wait and give them the over 200 hours break-in period.

3. My 2012 E84 with Harman Kardon was overly developed in terms of research as it was the bread and butter 3 Series. That car sound with surround sound, THX, two subs and Logic 7 (they made a few and I own one) blows out of the water some other BMW systems with B&W. It is all about engineering that was put in it and the calculations and measurements made based on the cabin dimensions, sound pattern and materials and how they absorb or contribute to the sound.

4. B&W are not top of the line in terms of floor standing speakers either. Lots of brands for less blows the crap out of them.