[LSM]

Originally Posted by vladberca

A Cayenne GTS Coupe is a rival for X6 M50i...
Comparing it with the Competition M model is simply hilarious, but I'd try what you're smoking

The good stuff Obviously it must be if I dare say I like a Porsche better LOL JK. I kid

I like the GTS better than the X5M and that’s why I chose it. The GTS actually is made to handle better and is lower than the more expensive regular Turbo. It’s not a X6 M50 competitor at all: don’t know anyone who cross shops a m50 and a GTS.

The OP asked about Turbo GT vs X5 I would choose turbo GT.

The questions always the same is X car worth more than X car. I guess it is for the person buying the more expensive one. 🤷🏻

[x622]

Bad news guys. We all know how BMW decontented '22s and took out stuff like the motion rear-hatch opening, touch screens and phone charger which all came back with the '23s. But..


One of the most important features of why I selected this vehicle versus all of the others was removed in '22 and still gone in the '23 - The rear seat fold down latches. I used those badboys constantly in the last one to put the rear seats down without walking around. Note the nice piece of garbage replacement with a big "X" on it incase you were driving an X series BMW with a 12v outlet and some useless plastic cargo latches that fold out.


I've already priced out all the parts to put it back in and confirmed it can just be re-added, but still. Decontenting the damn latches on a $128k MSRP car? Seriously? Guess the next car WILL be a Turbo GT after this '23.



Here's the parts to re-add it..
51-47-5-A0B-807
51-47-5-A0B-578
52-20-9-892-242
51-47-6-943-907
51-47-6-943-908
51-47-9-870-687
52-20-7-444-867

.... Unreal.

[Tejas1836]

So the seat latches are a deal breaker for you. Think I'll just take that long walk to the passenger seat, I need the exercise anyway.
<- me walking

[x622]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

So the seat latches are a deal breaker for you. Think I'll just take that long walk to the passenger seat, I need the exercise anyway.
<- me walking

Haha, when I have to load shit in the trunk all the time moving equipment around, it comes in real handy

[pookiemalibu]

I love my X5MC. Might be the first car I purchase at lease end. Really can't think of another super-SUV that ticks all the main boxes: speed, price, aesthetic, handling...it just has it all. Another thing I really like about the F95 is that it's very unassuming. The Average Joe driving down the interstate has no idea that it's a $120K truck and I love that. This is especially true when some jackass wants to cut me off or race, only to FAFO about them thoroughbreds grazing under the hood in ///M-Town.

We just picked up a new 2023 Macan S. Obviously, it's not in the same league as the Cayenne Turbo GT but I do agree with some of the other posters that the build quality for Porsche is a tad bit better than a comparable counterpart such as the X3 M40i that I saw at a mediation I attended today. But I don't feel that that same difference in the level of luxury extends to the Cayenne's I've seen. And certainly not $60K-$80K better.

Another dealbreaker for me: BMW's infotainment is INFINITELY better than Porsche's. I hate Mrs. Malibu's PCM interface. It's clunky and not as intuitive as iDrive. That being said, I've read on Rennlist/seen on youtube that the Cayenne interface is a bit more crisp and doesn't have the same lag as the Macan, but the bones of the system remain the same.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, is what others touched on: price. Fully loaded with every possible feature the F95 is ~$130K out the door, tax, tag and dealer prep. I can't seem to spec even a base Cayenne for less than $120K and that's "scrimping". I specced a '23 Cayenne GTS, here's the nickel and dime-ing in action:

1.) $4,640 comfort options such as:
a.) head-up display
b.) surround view
c.) soft close doors
d.) comfort access
2.) $1,500.00 for 14-way seats.
3.) $2,000.00 for massage seats
4.) $430.00 and $330.00 for ambient lighting and under door puddle projectors

The one thing that I think MIGHT make me consider a Cayenne next is the ability to add RSE. While it never seemed to matter before, having hardwired rear seat entertainment is always a plus. And it just looks pretty cool.

To be clear, I'm not downing the Cayenne, it's just not necessarily for me at the price point.

EDIT: Also, if leasing, Porsche has an MRM (maximum residualized MSRP) and on the base Cayenne is "only" $97,000ish. In other words, if you don't want your Cayenne looking like a high-end 4Runner because of all the plastic bits and partial cloth seats, you're gonna eat anything over the MRM into the lease payment. No bueno.

[Rockit-1]

Best bang for your buck is the Alfa Stelvio Quadrifoglio. I have one...one of the best handing cars. Awesome GT touring car, awesome in race mode on track. Its faster and better handling than my M50i. I use the M50i as a daily. Stelvio Quad and 911 are for the weekend. I had a Macan Turbo....what a dog.

Definitely test drive one. Best Dealer for sales and service is Performance Alfa in Whippany. Sorry..thought you in NYC.

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by Rockit-1

Best bang for your buck is the Alfa Stelvio Quadrifoglio. I have one...one of the best handing cars. Awesome GT touring car, awesome in race mode on track. Its faster and better handling than my M50i. I use the M50i as a daily. Stelvio Quad and 911 are for the weekend. I had a Macan Turbo....what a dog.

Definitely test drive one. Best Dealer for sales and service is Performance Alfa in Whippany.

I'm a fan of that suv. The quadrifolio version is really nice imo.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by pookiemalibu

I love my X5MC. Might be the first car I purchase at lease end. Really can't think of another super-SUV that ticks all the main boxes: speed, price, aesthetic, handling...it just has it all. Another thing I really like about the F95 is that it's very unassuming. The Average Joe driving down the interstate has no idea that it's a $120K truck and I love that. This is especially true when some jackass wants to cut me off or race, only to FAFO about them thoroughbreds grazing under the hood in ///M-Town.

We just picked up a new 2023 Macan S. Obviously, it's not in the same league as the Cayenne Turbo GT but I do agree with some of the other posters that the build quality for Porsche is a tad bit better than a comparable counterpart such as the X3 M40i that I saw at a mediation I attended today. But I don't feel that that same difference in the level of luxury extends to the Cayenne's I've seen. And certainly not $60K-$80K better.

Another dealbreaker for me: BMW's infotainment is INFINITELY better than Porsche's. I hate Mrs. Malibu's PCM interface. It's clunky and not as intuitive as iDrive. That being said, I've read on Rennlist/seen on youtube that the Cayenne interface is a bit more crisp and doesn't have the same lag as the Macan, but the bones of the system remain the same.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, is what others touched on: price. Fully loaded with every possible feature the F95 is ~$130K out the door, tax, tag and dealer prep. I can't seem to spec even a base Cayenne for less than $120K and that's "scrimping". I specced a '23 Cayenne GTS, here's [...]

All great incite and I agree on a lot of your points. BMW has the best interface and IDrive is the best. My Cayenne GTS was just over 120k in 2021 (prices went up now) and unless you drive them back to back won’t understand my preference. Even if you did maybe you would still prefer the X5M it’s def faster and a wonderful SUV.

My gripes with the X5M compared to the GTS were I felt the GTS is more buttoned down, feels tighter and has better steering. Also since my wife drives it, the X5M has an overly harsh ride that doesn’t exactly translate to better handling. In the GTS I drive in sport + mode and it’s very sporty. My wife comfort mode and it’s comfortable. The air suspension is fantastic, I love rear wheel steering too.

Again I’m not flaming the X5M I love it but for me I liked the GTS better

As a matter of fact I had my car in for service and they gave me a standard Cayenne loaner. Big money for an amemic performer. Handling was much worse than my gts. It was awful to be honest. I can’t imagine any scenario where that would be a choice over the much better X5 4.0 M sport.

Macan and Cayenne are really nothing alike.

I see the Turbo GT as a cheaper and better Urus not a very expensive X5M or GLE 63 competitor. I had the first allocation for a turbo GT at msrp built it and was delivered. My thought was go to one car and have the best imo SUV. Ultimately I kept gts and preferred 911 with it

[pookiemalibu]

Originally Posted by LSM

All great incite and I agree on a lot of your points. BMW has the best interface and IDrive is the best. My Cayenne GTS was just over 120k in 2021 (prices went up now) and unless you drive them back to back won’t understand my preference. Even if you did maybe you would still prefer the X5M it’s def faster and a wonderful SUV.

My gripes with the X5M compared to the GTS were I felt the GTS is more buttoned down, feels tighter and has better steering. Also since my wife drives it, the X5M has an overly harsh ride that doesn’t exactly translate to better handling. In the GTS I drive in sport + mode and it’s very sporty. My wife comfort mode and it’s comfortable. The air suspension is fantastic, I love rear wheel steering too.

Again I’m not flaming the X5M I love it but for me I liked the GTS better

As a matter of fact I had my car in for service and they gave me a standard Cayenne loaner. Big money for an amemic performer. Handling was much worse than my gts. It was awful to be honest. I can’t imagine any scenario where that would be a choice over the much better X5 4.0 M sport.

Macan and Cayenne are really nothing alike.

I see the Turbo GT as a cheaper and better Urus not a very expensive X5M or GLE 63 competitor. I had the first allocation for a turbo GT at msrp built it and was delivered. My thought was go to one car and have the best imo SUV. Ultimately I kept gts and preferred 911 with it

First: All good points. Appreciate the civil discourse. :-)

Second: Never driven a Cayenne so I can't compare the ride. Although I will admit that the X5MC, juxtaposed to the air-cushioned suspension (or whatever) of the regular X5, is harsh AF. But I like that connection to the road. I'd be interested in testing a GTS to see the difference. I do however feel like the X5MC has super sharp steering, but I admittedly have no comparison from the P-Car side of things other than the Macan which rides like a German Cadillac.

Third: It seems like ///M-Cars (this is my first true ///M), especially the F95 and F96 are purposefully built to be a bit more "rugged". When I took my Old Man out for a ride, he was like, "Damn boy, you need to get the shocks checked out in this thing? This IS a NEW car right?".

Last: I'm not 100% sold on the styling/aesthetic of the Cayenne. Like you said, not flaming it, but I prefer the X5MC much better. Even w/ the GTS package I'm at $30K in options to make it look as "sporty". That's admittedly a personal preference, but it does seem as though Porsche SUVs require a bit of optioning to make them look less like a Toyota (see also: base X5 models). Also, the MRM makes speccing a base Cayenne with my necessary (read: desired) options a bit of a financing fustercluck. Granted the GTS has a $140K MRM so not AS much of an issue.

I'm on the allocation list for a 992 GT3. Praying we get one, so I hope to experience the joy of a 911 soon enough. Fingers XXed!

[LSM]

Originally Posted by pookiemalibu

First: All good points. Appreciate the civil discourse. :-)

Second: Never driven a Cayenne so I can't compare the ride. Although I will admit that the X5MC, juxtaposed to the air-cushioned suspension (or whatever) of the regular X5, is harsh AF. But I like that connection to the road. I'd be interested in testing a GTS to see the difference. I do however feel like the X5MC has super sharp steering, but I admittedly have no comparison from the P-Car side of things other than the Macan which rides like a German Cadillac.

Third: It seems like ///M-Cars (this is my first true ///M), especially the F95 and F96 are purposefully built to be a bit more "rugged". When I took my Old Man out for a ride, he was like, "Damn boy, you need to get the shocks checked out in this thing? This IS a NEW car right?".

Last: I'm not 100% sold on the styling/aesthetic of the Cayenne. Like you said, not flaming it, but I prefer the X5MC much better. Even w/ the GTS package I'm at $30K in options to make it look as "sporty". That's admittedly a personal preference, but it does seem as though Porsche SUVs require a bit of optioning to make them look less like a Toyota (see also: base X5 models). Also, the MRM makes speccing a base Cayenne with my necessary (read: desired) options a bit of a financing fustercluck. Granted the GTS has a $140K MRM so not AS much of an issue.

I'm on the allocation list for a 992 GT3. Praying we get one, so I hope to experience the joy of a 911 soon enough. Fingers XXed!

Totally get it. Where I like the GTS coupe much better than regular Cayenne GTS, I like the X5M much better than the X6M looks wise

If you get a chance to drive GTS Coupe you will immediately know it’s slower no doubt, but definitely not slow. Exhaust is loud AF, but may or may not like the feel better. I did but that’s me. It’s lighter by almost 400lbs

I don’t know if they did this in the X6M but in the cayenne coupe they lowered the rear seats so not much lost with slope back

Posted some pics at dealer and in my garage.
I don’t live in CA just buy my Porsches from there

Enjoy your rides!

[pookiemalibu]

Originally Posted by LSM

Totally get it. Where I like the GTS coupe much better than regular Cayenne GTS, I like the X5M much better than the X6M looks wise

If you get a chance to drive GTS Coupe you will immediately know it’s slower no doubt, but definitely not slow. Exhaust is loud AF, but may or may not like the feel better. I did but that’s me. It’s lighter by almost 400lbs

I don’t know if they did this in the X6M but in the cayenne coupe they lowered the rear seats so not much lost with slope back

Posted some pics at dealer and in my garage.
I don’t live in CA just buy my Porsches from there

Enjoy!!

Not gonna lie, the all black is dangerous. Very Darth Vader-esque (I'm a Star Wars geek so I nicknamed my MWM/Sahkir Orange X5MC Red Five). The clear taillights definitely hit the mark too. Sending you a PM.

[DocOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by x622

Haha, when I have to load shit in the trunk all the time moving equipment around, it comes in real handy

Just remember when you’re in the Porsche and interacting with other people. They’ll be likely to remember the 47th rule of acquisition.

[x622]

Well guys my Porsche rep just emailed me that my Turbo GT has shipped from germany..

But I'm having second thoughts. The build quality issues I had with my '23 have been somewhat resolved - teflon tape on the doors to mitigate squeaking and a replacement center air register means all my squeaks and rattles are gone. I ordered this Cayenne Turbo GT but I'm not sure if I really want to drive a near quarter million dollar daily driver and put 15k miles on it a year. Looking at the depreciation, just owning it for two years would cost me at least $70k...

I turo'd a plaid X for a few days and don't think I could rock that even with a BBK and suspension upgrades (the navigation makes me want to kill myself)... So now I'm just contemplating keeping this thing for a few more years and waiting. Maybe do some springs and wrap the car a different color, and refinish or get new wheels. I've said on here before if BMW makes a 3-4 motor iX5M with 4-500 miles of range that handles like a BMW, I'm in...

If I do pass on the Turbo GT I ordered I might not get a 2RS allocation however.

[blake6551]

I drove my neighbors Cayenne Turbo GT the other day. AMAZING is all I can say. He got rid of his 992 Turbo S as the TGT is that good. The handling is phenomenal, and the power is bonkers, noticeably faster than X5MC, like Tesla level acceleration.

Now would I buy one, I don't know, same issue I put 15k/yr on my car and the X5MC depreciation is already bad. That many miles on a TGT and it would be painful.

[weinerbarn]

Originally Posted by x622

Well guys my Porsche rep just emailed me that my Turbo GT has shipped from germany..

But I'm having second thoughts. The build quality issues I had with my '23 have been somewhat resolved - teflon tape on the doors to mitigate squeaking and a replacement center air register means all my squeaks and rattles are gone. I ordered this Cayenne Turbo GT but I'm not sure if I really want to drive a near quarter million dollar daily driver and put 15k miles on it a year. Looking at the depreciation, just owning it for two years would cost me at least $70k...

I turo'd a plaid X for a few days and don't think I could rock that even with a BBK and suspension upgrades (the navigation makes me want to kill myself)... So now I'm just contemplating keeping this thing for a few more years and waiting. Maybe do some springs and wrap the car a different color, and refinish or get new wheels. I've said on here before if BMW makes a 3-4 motor iX5M with 4-500 miles of range that handles like a BMW, I'm in...

If I do pass on the Turbo GT I ordered I might not get a 2RS allocation however.

I feel like if you're going to spend that kind of money, you have to be all in and it doesn't seem like you are.

but I'm not sure if I really want to drive a near quarter million dollar daily driver and put 15k miles on it a year

This right here is going to kill your enjoyment of it. You'll drive it less and worry far more when and where you do ... that's just my gut feeling. I have no doubt the Porche is a fantastic vehicle and the Throttle House review speaks volumes. But, is it $100k+ better than what you're presently driving? I'm guessing not and you could customize and improve what you have a whole lot just based on the sales tax savings alone, not considering the depreciation.

If I do pass on the Turbo GT I ordered I might not get a 2RS allocation however.

This may be the part that ends up hurting you the most. I'm not familiar enough with the Porsche politics or used market to be able to offer anything valuable. Can you take the Cayenne Turbo GT and sell it shortly after w/o it affecting your future purchases?

[beammeupscottie]

I was crossshopping the Cayenne GTS & Turbo vs ‘24 X5M. I just couldn’t get around the slower GTS and the enormous price difference between the vehicles. I like the overall look of the cayenne coupe better than the X5M. I also considered and had the option for an X6M LCI. Ended up going for the LCI X5M. Made the right decision for me. You get so much more for the money imho. The ride is a tad sportier in the Cayenne Turbo Coupe (I’ll never track a vehicle) but not $50k more plus 4% more on the interest rate (with over 890 credit score) and no included maintenance except 1 oil change. ✌🏽

[x622]

Originally Posted by weinerbarn

I feel like if you're going to spend that kind of money, you have to be all in and it doesn't seem like you are.

but I'm not sure if I really want to drive a near quarter million dollar daily driver and put 15k miles on it a year

This right here is going to kill your enjoyment of it. You'll drive it less and worry far more when and where you do ... that's just my gut feeling. I have no doubt the Porche is a fantastic vehicle and the Throttle House review speaks volumes. But, is it $100k+ better than what you're presently driving? I'm guessing not and you could customize and improve what you have a whole lot just based on the sales tax savings alone, not considering the depreciation.

If I do pass on the Turbo GT I ordered I might not get a 2RS allocation however.

This may be the part that ends up hurting you the most. I'm not familiar enough with the Porsche politics or used market to be able to offer anything valuable. Can you take the Cayenne Turbo GT and sell it shortly after w/o it affecting your future purchases?

I think you're right. I have already put 2500 regret-free miles on the Mclaren since it showed up in June and I love it. I'm going to drive the hell out of that car and am prepared for the financial cost per mile. As for the Turbo GT being 100k better than the X5M? Honestly, I don't think so. Yes the suspension is better. Power is similar. I think form factor is worse. It's the same reason I don't get a Urus, I don't need an ostentatious display of wealth in a daily, if I want that I'll hop in the Mac and get orders of magnitude more smiles-per-mile than can ever be achieved with a heavy SUV.

Ironically, I was able to get multiple Turbo GT allocations, but never could get a RSQ8. I have to look if I could sell my allocation to someone else so I don't incur the wrath of my dealer. There isn't a required time period of ownership like ferrari, I just know I had to work very hard to get to the top of the 2rs list.

[PacShakur]

You buy automobiles for enjoyment. Not depreciation aspects. If that is the case just get a used Hyundai and call it a day. Live one time, one shot at this. Enjoy it without regrets on depreciating assets like cars.

[x622]

Originally Posted by PacShakur

You buy automobiles for enjoyment. Not depreciation aspects. If that is the case just get a used Hyundai and call it a day. Live one time, one shot at this. Enjoy it without regrets on depreciating assets like cars.

I HAVE cars that I enjoy. I don't think losing 70k in depreciation over the scope of ~2 years on a daily warrants the expense. That's two seasons of consumables and rebuilds for my race car. Maybe I'm just being cheap, or I'm not completely gone in terms of spending on vehicles with reckless abandon... Then again I am looking at a Senna...

[dds007]

Similar circumstance, I’m going from an x5MC to a macan S. I’m so excited **sarcasm**.

Lesson learned. Don’t have 3 kids that all go to private school or no more toys.

[Penguino]

I keep trying to find a flaw on the X5M to persuade me to go for the Cayenne. For $120K starting price, the X5M makes it a very compelling case. It is an extraordinary vehicle.

Even with the income to justify it, I’m having a hard time justifying the pricing gap between an M60i and a X5M. Aside from the flexing points the pricing gap between a X5M and TGT is too high to make me make the jump.

Overall, glad you chose the X5M. I have a GT3 on order and the X5M is a great performance SUV to match it.

Ps: These SUV prices have skyrocketed in the previous years. I remember the 2012 X5M was ~$90K and 2012 my M3 $62K. About $30K gap. Now there is a $50K gap between them! Five years ago a GLE63 started at $100K. Now it’s $129K!

Point is, while the TGT is a beast, the X5M is the sweet spot for price, looks and ultimately performance in this category.

[Penguino]

Originally Posted by Savoy2001

That isn't even close to the same rationale. Not even close. The performance in the regular x5 vs the M version is light years apart. The performance difference between the X5MC vs the GT is very close. There is simply no way the GT deserves to command 70k more vs the X5MC. The only way and I mean only way someone justifies the extra expense is if your a die hard Porsche cool aid drinker and I mean die hard to put it lightly. lol Simply no comparison dude sorry. You want to say it's worth 10-20k more maybe you have a shot but at 60-70 hell no. Not even close.

Best way to put it: Is a TGT a better choice than an X5M and an M3?

Because that’s what the price difference gets you. I’d choose an X5M and a manual M4 for the weekends any day of the week. The price difference between the TGT and any other competitor is just too high.