[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Cruise'n

None Turbo or supercharged always sound better.
The turbo makes pulses that are released into the exhaust acting like a silencer to the sound.
Also the wastegate effects the sound too.
F1 solved this wastegate issue with having is own exhaust to the rear of the car. F1 waste gate
But the pulses can't be remove ��

I cannot agree to this based on my experience. There are plenty of turbo car that sound superb. In my case, this include two of my N54, and I once had Evo8. None of my NA cars matches their sound, include E39 M5 S62 NA high rev V8.

What silence the engine is NOT a well design turbo, it is thing like non equal length integrated exhaust manifold, and biggest offender the multi-stage cat manufactures have to put in to pass emission. Just compare F10 M5 to F90 M5, both S63, turbo hot Vee V8. F10 is probably the best sounding M5 to-date, it puts F90 in shame for exhaust note

As for F1, it sounds good because when audiences hear it, it is raining at 15k rpm. Engine can do this will sound good at this rpm because the extreme balancing they have to be. Now try to go visit them at pit where they are idling, they sound like they are going to break down. In fact, those engine cannot idle for more than say 10 min, they will really break down.

[MC113]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I think it is what BMW is doing across the board. I kind of want to say it is emission requirement related, but I don't understand why other manufacture can still pull off good sound.

I don't have turbo V8, but only NA V8 S62. I also have N54 and B58 turbo inline6. B58 is no where near the sound quality of N54. Even S62 doesnt sound as good as N54

I feel like it has to be driven by emissions regulations, right? What’s mystifying to me is that other manufacturers seem to be able to do whatever needs to be done in terms of compliance to still offer models that deliver a satisfying auditory experience. I know these aren’t in any way comparable vehicles but for the purposes of illustrating a point, how can Mercedes ship the G63 with this exhaust setup? Are their product mix or compliance obligations so different from BMWs that they have a fleet of AMGs that (with the exception of the new C63) all sound great? Are the AMG GLS buyer or AMG GLE buyer so different in terms of preferences from the BMW M Sport buyer? I’m not being facetious - I genuinely don’t know the answer to that question.

I understand not all X5 or X7 M60i customers would want that kind of experience but not even offering an option - on your next M5’s powertrain - while slapping all these “Motorsport” badges on every inch of the car inside and out feels a bit like they’ve lost the plot more than even the purists bemoan. It very well could be that this equipment is coming but in the interim the lack of options or information (and frankly misleading “M Sport Exhaust System” I was sold on my vehicle which is purely cosmetic) leaves me a bit disappointed.

This is hands down my favorite car that I’ve had - this is a small gripe and something I’ll address when I find the right option.

[Cruise'n]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

As for F1, it sounds good because when audiences hear it, it is raining at 15k rpm. Engine can do this will sound good at this rpm because the extreme balancing they have to be. Now try to go visit them at pit where they are idling, they sound like they are going to break down. In fact, those engine cannot idle for more than say 10 min, they will really break down.

I'll look for a video that explains the silencing, nothing to do with exhaust or engine but turbo.
Interesting will add link later.

Yes turbos can sounds good, but the same engine with and without a turbo will always be notable

F1 V12 V10 V8 non turbo high revs and loud

F1 V6 when released were silent and low revs. Was horrible went from hearing cars blocks away to not hearing in the other side of the grandstand.
I'll never forget that disappointment.

Then they did the above fix and more noise but as turbo still low revs, F1 have not reved for near a decade now

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Cruise'n

I'll look for a video that explains the silencing, nothing to do with exhaust or engine but turbo.
Interesting will add link later.

Yes turbos can sounds good, but the same engine with and without a turbo will always be notable

F1 V12 V10 V8 non turbo high revs and loud

F1 V6 when released were silent and low revs. Was horrible went from hearing cars blocks away to not hearing in the other side of the grandstand.
I'll never forget that disappointment.

Then they did the above fix and more noise but as turbo still low revs, F1 have not reved for near a decade now

I think it is very hard to compare V12, V10 V8 high rev to V6 non high rev to begin with. The firing harmonic is very different to begin with, and the rev will sure make the different.

Now there is a reason why NA engine need high rev, it is the only way to maximize HP. Once introduce the turbo the need of high rev reduce significantly. Since turbo intake pressure is much higher, air is "thicker" if you will, and flow slower. Short of valve open duration of high rev become counter productive very quickly. Low rev also give F1 engine a longer service life.

As for turbo vs NA for sound. I think if you take a NA engine, slap a turbo on, it will probably make it quieter. But it has to do with the way the NA is setup. I think if you take a turbo engine, like N54, remove the turbo, it will sound lousy as well. I don't see an easy way to do apple to apple comparison. One thing I know for sure, if you take any stock turbo engine, remove the cat, it will sound 2x as loud if not more.

[Tejas1836]

2023 F1 Engines
Manufacturers: Ferrari, Honda, Mercedes-Benz, Renault
Four-stroke 1.6 liter turbo V6 engine (pneumatic valve springs- awesome)
Limited to 15,000 rpm, capable of 20,000 rpm, most run 12-13,000 rpm
1,000 BHP
+ERS ~160 BHP for 33 seconds iirc

[Cruise'n]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I think it is very hard to compare V12, V10 V8 high rev to V6 non high rev to begin with. The firing harmonic is very different to begin with, and the rev will sure make the different.

Now there is a reason why NA engine need high rev, it is the only way to maximize HP. Once introduce the turbo the need of high rev reduce significantly. Since turbo intake pressure is much higher, air is "thicker" if you will, and flow slower. Short of valve open duration of high rev become counter productive very quickly. Low rev also give F1 engine a longer service life.

As for turbo vs NA for sound. I think if you take a NA engine, slap a turbo on, it will probably make it quieter. But it has to do with the way the NA is setup. I think if you take a turbo engine, like N54, remove the turbo, it will sound lousy as well. I don't see an easy way to do apple to apple comparison. One thing I know for sure, if you take any stock turbo engine, remove the cat, it will sound 2x as loud if not more.

I only mentioned the F1 engines as looked like you were saying the V6 was revving high.
Only the V12 V10 V8 rev

The V6 don't rev as they make massive torque low and more efficient as now one tank for the entire race, no refilling like the old days

Definately removing a turbo will improve sound on any engine.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Cruise'n

I only mentioned the F1 engines as looked like you were saying the V6 was revving high.
Only the V12 V10 V8 rev

The V6 don't rev as they make massive torque low and more efficient as now one tank for the entire race, no refilling like the old days

Definately removing a turbo will improve sound on any engine.

Is it it still 15K redline for the 1.6L V6 turbo? I think the old NA V8 was 20k redline.

I have never seen anyone with a turbo engine, and running it with turbo removed. However, I have seen plenty of E46 M54 engine where people add turbo. and being auto sport group, their setup has proper intake, and exhaust setup as well. I have an NA M54 myself with customer titanium high flow exhaust. I know mine is nowhere sound like the turbo version.

[wardy007]

BMW still use the expression "an emotive soundtrack" in their marketing material for the M60I..

[Cruise'n]

Originally Posted by Yardie

Couldn’t agree more with the negative views of the muted exhaust. I chopped off the muffler off my X6 M60i, added 2 vibrant resonators and 3.5 inch quad tips and I am pleased with the sound. I just couldn’t tolerate the muted 4-cylinder sedan sound any longer.

Would you be able to take photos of the mods you've done.
Sounds worthy of checking out.

[LDT]

Originally Posted by wardy007

BMW still use the expression "an emotive soundtrack" in their marketing material for the M60I..

Says the Troll from down under.

[Yardie]

Vibrant resonator

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by LDT

Says the Troll from down under.

Exactly, troll with 15 posts and all hate on the M60i, every one of them but his signature shows that he owns one.

[wardy007]

Originally Posted by cobramite

Exactly, troll with 15 posts and all hate on the M60i, every one of them but his signature shows that he owns one.

WOW cobramite!!.. you are one sad angry dude with nothing better to do. Ive been reading your posts across the forum in different categories, and the way you berate people and shove your opinion down their throats is quite disturbing. Like i've said previously, there's one in every forum.. and you're that sad little man! Now go away and bother someone else if you have nothing constructive to say!

[wardy007]

Originally Posted by LDT

Says the Troll from down under.

I'm just stating a fact.. why does that make me a troll? Do you know what that term actually means?

[MC113]

Originally Posted by wardy007

BMW still use the expression "an emotive soundtrack" in their marketing material for the M60I..

This YouTuber reviewing the X7 with the same powertrain does a great job of demonstrating that the '24 M60i with the S68 engine genuinely sounds like a four or six cylinder turbo diesel and how much the fake "IconicSounds" are masking from the interior. Enable subtitles to follow his commentary but the demonstration speaks for itself. First world problem, but I cannot think of another modern V8 powertrain from a luxury manufacturer that sounds like this.

[wardy007]

Originally Posted by MC113

This YouTuber reviewing the X7 with the same powertrain does a great job of demonstrating that the '24 M60i with the S68 engine genuinely sounds like a four or six cylinder turbo diesel and how much the fake "IconicSounds" are masking from the interior. Enable subtitles to follow his commentary but the demonstration speaks for itself. First world problem, but I cannot think of another modern V8 powertrain from a luxury manufacturer that sounds like this.

Exactly, it makes you cringe hearing this pathetic metallic whining exhaust that sounds worse than most tuned 4 cylinder cars.. WOW!

[SwissBeemer]

Originally Posted by MC113

Kudos to the electric car crowd that are actually trying to do something but again - with the half-measures - in the U.S. we're plugging cars into a grid that’s currently only 12% powered by renewables and like 77% fossil fuels. I think almost 20% is coal? So they're rolling around in a car that weighs as much as a dead planet made of lead that's got a mostly fossil fuel-charged battery? No emissions from the car, but I'd imagine that coal-fired power plant might not be net zero? Meanwhile I've got my twin turbo V8 which enthusiastically shuts off for a split second at every stop sign or momentary traffic slowdown with a ball-gagged exhaust. The electric car folks are doing much better than me, but am I meant to feel like Captain Planet enjoying my IconicSounds/Grand Turismo PS5 engine sound simulator with the windows up while still averaging 12 MPG?

Something is better than nothing I suppose but these half measures are frankly just embarrassing to me.

Just FYI an iX can do 20kWh/100km easily, that is the quivalent of over 100mpg. At the US power grid average of 370g/kWh of CO2 that's 74g/km, a fifth of the 350g/km when averaging 16mpg. (And that's not even well-to-wheel but just the CO2 from the fuel itself.) EV's emit a lot less even when charged with fossils simply because they are SO much more efficient.

Yes, EV's have a CO2 backpack due to battery production but this is generally gone within the first 20,000mi. The total emissions of an EV compared to an ICE car is estimated to be ~60% lower, according to the EPA.

https://blog.greenenergyconsumers.or...s-vs.-gasoline
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2021-06-29/
https://www.politifact.com/article/2...tion-electric/
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/f...rs/9900644002/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...evs-still-win/

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by SwissBeemer

Just FYI an iX can do 20kWh/100km easily, that is the quivalent of over 100mpg. At the US power grid average of 370g/kWh of CO2 that's 74g/km, a fifth of the 350g/km when averaging 16mpg. (And that's not even well-to-wheel but just the CO2 from the fuel itself.) EV's emit a lot less even when charged with fossils simply because they are SO much more efficient.

Yes, EV's have a CO2 backpack due to battery production but this is generally gone within the first 20,000mi. The total emissions of an EV compared to an ICE car is estimated to be ~60% lower, according to the EPA.

https://blog.greenenergyconsumers.or...s-vs.-gasoline
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2021-06-29/
https://www.politifact.com/article/2...tion-electric/
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/f...rs/9900644002/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...evs-still-win/

Well, those sources are all left wing pushing the EV house of cards, so there's that.
Right now in the US we are spending about $23 for every gallon of gasoline saved, simply unsustainable. Millions of families are behind in their electricity bills.
Increased EV accident rate, fires, tire wear (where do tires come from?), child slave labor for mining the battery minerals...
EV house of cards (as a whole) pushed by this administration is already is already showing signs of imploding.
Now, this is on top of the climate change grifts

[postbox1918]

I'm not trying to offend anyone or trying to hurt someone's feeling here but i think we reach to a point where you wanna spend your hard earned money and wanna buy a V8 which sounds like a true V8 is decided by some bureaucrap or a politician sitting in there air condition office/ flying in private jets all over the world.
Emission this Emission that now even cow fart is also killing climate but i thought cows and other animals are farting from thousands of years .
I get the point of emission restrictions but now you can't even turn off your auto start/stop , your V8 will sound like a 4 cylinder and next no more V8 .
Just read the beautiful articles and read statistics about how clean EV's are and feel guilty about buying gas cars . Drive EV with playing fake exhaust notes on your audio player and just think how your zero emission is helping climate and don't you dare think that battery is made up of rare earth minerals (conflict minerals) and around 70% of those conflict minerals comes from congo , just think those minerals grow on some tree somewhere and no child is mining those mineral somewhere and dying because of inhumane conditions.
The old battery will vanish in air without effecting earth or climate.
I'm not suggesting gas is good or ev is bad but there should be a balance and people should have a freedom to choose.
This reminds me a quote from 1984 " sanity is not statistical " but now it is getting statistical.

[Cruise'n]

Originally Posted by wardy007

BMW still use the expression "an emotive soundtrack" in their marketing material for the M60I..

Agree.
I even emailed BMW and asked why do they video advertise cars with sound and sell them with none.
Yesterday I remote started my car in a quiet street being 20 metres away and couldn't hear it 🤮
( yes a warm start but that's how it sounds all the time once warm )

[cobramite]

The M60i is certainly "quiter" than my M50i which was not anywhere near loud even in Sport Plus.
I am beginning to accept the stealth nature of my M60i exhaust note which may actually be an advatage when I jump up to around 700HP after tuning which should be soon.

[mysore]

Originally Posted by cobramite

The M60i is certainly "quiter" than my M50i which was not anywhere near loud even in Sport Plus.
I am beginning to accept the stealth nature of my M60i exhaust note which may actually be an advatage when I jump up to around 700HP after tuning which should be soon.

Can’t wait to hear your thoughts and experience after you blow through the numbers 😁