[Hume]

Hello all,

I recently purchased an X5 m60i and I am very happy with everything handling suspension interior etc except the exhaust sound. I did not know that there was such thing as iconic sounds. I now realise that the exhaust sound from the outside is completely muted and then inside the cabin it is all fake. As soon as I turn off iconic sounds there is no sound. Unfortunately I did not know about this at the time of the purchase. I understand that they have to silence the exhaust because of the European laws in regards to emissions, but this is very very muted.

Before purchasing the x5 I was also briefly looking at Porsche Cayennes specifically the S version with the return of the V8 and that sounds significantly better both inside / outside and there is no artificial sound being pushed through the speakers. I believe that both BMWX5 and Porsche cayenne do a great job and it comes down to preference and budget.

I was wondering what other people’s opinion is on the topic of the exhaust sound and if something like the newly announced Porsche Cayenne 2025 GTS would make sense. I am not really looking to make any aftermarket changes to the exhaust on the X5 m60i as that would void warranty.

[BMPHIL]

This has been talked about a lot, from a personal point of view I purchased acoustic glass to keep the noise down in the cabin, the fact the exhaust is so quiet is a bonus to me and the fact the car doesn't tell everyone outside that I am driving a V8 is irrelevant. The car performs as I expected and that's what matters, as for iconic sounds no thank you, off and will remain off.

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by Hume

Hello all,

I recently purchased an X5 m60i and I am very happy with everything handling suspension interior etc except the exhaust sound. I did not know that there was such thing as iconic sounds. I now realise that the exhaust sound from the outside is completely muted and then inside the cabin it is all fake. As soon as I turn off iconic sounds there is no sound. Unfortunately I did not know about this at the time of the purchase. I understand that they have to silence the exhaust because of the European laws in regards to emissions, but this is very very muted.

Before purchasing the x5 I was also briefly looking at Porsche Cayennes specifically the S version with the return of the V8 and that sounds significantly better both inside / outside and there is no artificial sound being pushed through the speakers. I believe that both BMWX5 and Porsche cayenne do a great job and it comes down to preference and budget.

I was wondering what other people’s opinion is on the topic of the exhaust sound and if something like the newly announced Porsche Cayenne 2025 GTS would make sense. I am not really looking to make any aftermarket changes to the exhaust on the X5 m60i as that would void warranty.

Why would an aftermarket exhaust system void your X5's warranty? The aftermarket exhaust system will probably come with its own warranty and I don't see how an exhaust can affect the overall warranty for the vehicle.

[Hume]

Originally Posted by Hulk Smash

Why would an aftermarket exhaust system void your X5's warranty? The aftermarket exhaust system will probably come with its own warranty and I don't see how an exhaust can affect the overall warranty for the vehicle.

Based on other peoples posts on this forum my understanding is that any changes done to a new vehicle after purchase that are not done by the BMW dealership could void the warranty of the overall vehicle. If that is wrong then it would be good if others can confirm.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Hume

Based on other peoples posts on this forum my understanding is that any changes done to a new vehicle after purchase that are not done by the BMW dealership could void the warranty of the overall vehicle. If that is wrong then it would be good if others can confirm.

In the US that is absolutely 100% false.

That said, for the price difference between the cayenne gets and the M60i you could pay for a LOT of out of warranty work and still have the better car.

[BMPHIL]

Originally Posted by Hume

Based on other peoples posts on this forum my understanding is that any changes done to a new vehicle after purchase that are not done by the BMW dealership could void the warranty of the overall vehicle. If that is wrong then it would be good if others can confirm.

In the Uk I would be concerned regarding insurance cover as well as warranty, I would check with dealer and Insurance company before changing anything, better to be safe than sorry.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by BMPHIL

In the Uk I would be concerned regarding insurance cover as well as warranty, I would check with dealer and Insurance company before changing anything, better to be safe than sorry.

Why would insurance care? That's absurd.

In the US, it has to be proven that the aftermarket part caused the failure. Example, the new exhaust was touching and burned a wire up. They can't deny warranty on say, your radio screen going out because of it. And frankly they likely can't deny engine warranty due to an exhaust, because by far the main contribution to the exhaust restriction is the turbos. Everything after the turbos and cats is basically irrelevant as far as a restriction.

That said, people have said the S68 does some efficiency stuff that makes it sound like crap, and that's why they went with the quiet exhaust and fake sounds.

[crabman]

This applies to the US only, but having gone there, I can tell you a little bit about warranty denial in the automotive space.

To start with there are only a few reasons a warranty can be voided in total: Salvage title, ODO tampering, altered so greatly as to change the cars intended purpose from one thing to another, a few others I can't remember. Most of them will not apply to a typical owner on a forum who made some kind of modification.

You can be denied on a case by case basis for a specific item if they believe that an aftermarket installation caused the failure. I'll get back to "they believe" later. For now, that means just what it says, they are not responsible to warranty a failure caused by something that they did not sell you.

Where that gets sticky is power adders. If you buy a car putting out 350 hp from the factory and add parts that increase the power to 400, you've now altered the car from what they sold you, and they are not responsible for any problems that may arise. This one will stick and can lead to a voided powertrain warranty.

Note that the rest of the warranty will remain intact, your power mirror for example, will get fixed. This is part of a huge legislation called the MM act, that the warranty remains on components not impacted by the alteration made by a customer.

So you'll often read that the dealership has to prove something before warranty can be denied. Completely untrue. This is where the "they believe" comes into play. Possession is 9/10s of the law and you are not in possession of your warranty coverage. Nor is the dealership, they can make some repairs on their own as an authorized agent of the manufacturer, but they do not have possession of your warranty coverage. That honor goes to the manufacturer, you have to go to them through their authorized agents (usually a dealership) to get warranty coverage.

What this means is that in order to deny you coverage, they need only say the words, and it is done. You can jump up and down, scream, tell anybody that will listen about the MM act, it does nothing. You've been denied coverage, and you're off the road or out of pocket until such time as you follow a process that will require you to prove that your modifications did not cause the failure. While I hate to defend dealerships and their model in the case of warranty denial it often comes not from them, but rather a corporate rep who came in to examine the car before the repair could be authorized.

Now you're going to pursue a legal action. In practice, the reality is exactly the opposite of what you might think. They show up with graphs, charts, engineering extracts, and present it. This is a civil action and their presentation has the effect of being the truth until you show that it is not. That's outside any points of law, like them not being responsible to warrant something they did not sell. As I said, things can get ugly with power adders because you've got a drivetrain subjected to power levels not existing on the car sold to you.

One last fallacy: That you will get costs if you win. The MM act provides that you can ask for costs, this wasn't always the case in all states before it was enacted. What it doesn't do is guarantee that you will get them. I won, asked for costs, didn't get them.

Keep in mind I'm not an attorney, and going by memory of something I did 2 decades ago. There are variances on a state by state basis as they have individual warranty legislation that exists beyond that codified in the MM act, which is in effect nation wide.

If I were in the UK and wondering what the deal is I'd consult an attorney. This can normally be done on the (relative) cheap in the US, and I would think some similar consultation could be done overseas. I love car forums and there are many smart and helpful people on them. But they're a poor choice for legal advice.

[BMPHIL]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Why would insurance care? That's absurd.

In the US, it has to be proven that the aftermarket part caused the failure. Example, the new exhaust was touching and burned a wire up. They can't deny warranty on say, your radio screen going out because of it. And frankly they likely can't deny engine warranty due to an exhaust, because by far the main contribution to the exhaust restriction is the turbos. Everything after the turbos and cats is basically irrelevant as far as a restriction.

That said, people have said the S68 does some efficiency stuff that makes it sound like crap, and that's why they went with the quiet exhaust and fake sounds.

It depends what you are changing, one of the questions in UK when getting insurance quote is has the car been modified, if you modify it afterwards you can void the insurance. As Crabman says better to be safe than sorry.

[BlkGS]

So the other thing with Magnusson -Moss, it was intended to cover aftermarket OEM replacement parts, NOT upgrades. It was intended to protect you from a situation where you used a mahle oil filter instead of a bmw branded one and your engine blows. Or a set of power stop brake pads vs OEM bmw.

It wasn't intended to cover you because you grabbed a Cobb tuner and jacked the boost from 10 psi to 20 and dumped 10 degrees more timing in. And in those cases, it doesn't cover you and the dealership will absolutely deny your claim on a blown motor. But they're not gonna deny your claim on a seized ac compressor based on your extra boost.

To the above points, lawyers are more expensive than mechanics. It's rarely cheaper in overall cost to sue the automaker and try to recover your costs than it is to just work with the bmw reps and pay for it out of pocket.

In the end, major mods are pay to play. That said, a car back offers no performance gains and so you're not gonna have a big risk with warranty.