[mobsync]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

They have it. It's called the XM. It's hideous and not any faster than an X5M.

No, that uses the same or similar electric motors as the 50e. I want a PHEV that uses motors from the ix M60. That's all I'm asking for. Not much.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by mobsync

No, that uses the same or similar electric motors as the 50e. I want a PHEV that uses motors from the ix M60. That's all I'm asking for. Not much.

I assume you are joking around as it obviously will never happen as they are two different technologies.

[mobsync]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I assume you are joking around as it obviously will never happen as they are two different technologies.

yeah, I am but it would be nice!

So theoretically how limited is a PHEV's electric horsepower due to build constraints? Are the current electric motors in the 50e about as powerful as they can get for now?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by mobsync

yeah, I am but it would be nice!

So theoretically how limited is a PHEV's electric horsepower due to build constraints? Are the current electric motors in the 50e about as powerful as they can get for now?

It seems to be for now. With the M760e the combined hp is up to 571 but the EV motors stayed the same with the hp increase coming from the ICE. That said, I would imagine in the future they will get more powerful.

[BlkGS]

You could power one axle with an electric motor and the other axle with an ICE one, but having an electric motor on each axle and then somehow also feeding large amounts of ICE power in doesn't make sense. It would be far smarter to just do a series hybrid like Ramcharger or a train, where the electric motors provide the propulsion, and the ICE is a range extending generator.

Personally I think that a series hybrid PHEV is the real future. Eventually companies could contract the generator out to whoever builds the best/most robust generator (or Honda). It won't be as taboo and buying someone else's motor would be today, because it's basically just a charging apparatus.

The tradeoff will be battery size needed to support the current. Even Ramcharger is gonna have well over 100 miles of battery range because the battery pack has to be large enough to supply the current needed for the electric motors.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by clemsondds

Anyone cross shop these? Probably prefer the look of the cayenne but the depreciation is a lot more than the x5m.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

They have it. It's called the XM. It's hideous and not any faster than an X5M.

FWIW, I have a 2022 X5M and Friday borrowed a brand new XM for the day ...

XM
Ignoring the looks, which is super hard to do, the XM is a softer version of the X5M and definitely doesn't feel faster or more sporty. The interior, which is supposed to be nicer, is also palpably cheaper feeling than my X5 and the single screen is absolutely terrible in every way, especially when passengers compete you for it to change climate or whatever. Horrible terrible no good design, but that's not an XM only thing.

2024+ Cayenne
I had the chance to experience an e-hybrid turbo in Zurich this past november.

The interior design and quality put BMW to shame, like for reals. It's not just what you see, but how everything feels to touch and use ... I don't want to call it night & day, but the Cayenne is DEFINITELY a step up. Even my wife who doesn't care about this stuff, speculated that the reason I don't have one is must cost double given how much nicer it was

Drive-wise, the Cayenne is much better handling and the new GTS, while I haven't driven it, has many of the bits of the GT so I'd assume it's the one to get if you don't care about the hybrid part and are willing to sacrifice raw acceleration for $$.

I've considered the GT to replace my X5M, but just can't get there in terms of cost. there's no question it's better than the X5M in every way, but I see it more as a I'm-worth-9-figs vehicle than anything else, meaning at a certain point an SUV that performs that well is the wrong tool for the job; just get a 911 or Ferrari and an Escalade or whatever.

X5M
At least the 2022 I have is an on/off vehicle in that it just doesn't feel like much until you really push it, like really push. And then when you do, its ceiling is so much higher than you possibly imagined you just start giggling uncontrollably. But that's only when you REALLY push it, like, if there's a cop around you're probably getting stopped.

The 2024+ Cayenne on the other hand always has a sport edge, even doing 30 turning into Whole Foods or whatever. It just feels that much more sporting in a not-normal way, i.e., you never forget you're in a 6 figure sport SUV, which can happen with an X5M

OVERALL
I've driven new-purchased BMWs exclusively for 15+ years, and done 4 EDs, with my last 4 BMWs being individual at differing levels. Sad to say, my X5M will be my last BMW as they've totally lost me with styling, but even if I could get over that, the interiors are truly a step down from Porsche, and even Audi as in the RSQ8 which I also drove in the EU last fall and does easily beat anything BMW interior-wise, especially the screens which I found awesome; loved the haptics.

[X5MC4ME]

Gruss you and I must live on different planets. The Cayenne needs $10-15k worth of upgrades to come within spitting distance of the X5M. Full leather? Extra. Contrasting stitching? Extra. Seats as good as the X5M? Not available. The brand new Cayenne PCM is worse than my 3 year old Idrive 7. The “quality” you speak of is on your head IMO


I love Porsche and own two, one of which is a highly optioned Taycan (wife’s car). Even she thinks the X5M interior is nicer…and her Taycan has club leather and custom inserts.

And as for handling all you have to do is turn the steering in the Cayenne above 25mph in comfort mode and witness the wallow. Definitely feels better in sport plus but still didn’t seem predictable.

Different strokes….

[crabman]

Porsche has been going downhill with their interiors in terms of more cheap bits for years. I had a Panamera when the Taycan came out and was surprised by the number of things that felt cheaper inside the Taycan. Of course they've done the same to the Panamera now.

I do agree about the sense of sturdiness, being well screwed together. Porsche does this better than anyone, although BMW is getting pretty good nowadays.

I don't agree with comparing a stripper Porsche to other cars. I like my cars loaded, and buy them that way. A Cayenne GT the way I configure it is in excess of 100k more than the X5M loaded. That is the GT I'm buying if I buy a GT.

I've had both the 14, and 18 way seats, like them both, I think Porsche does a good job with them.

I thought the Cayenne had better steering feel, but that said, I drive my Porsche's in either sport or sport plus at all times.

The likeable thing about SUVs is they make life easy. Big square box, no problem. Packing kids, groceries, got your back. Wanna see over traffic, there for ya. Don't want to climb up into or need a ladder to get out of, all good. Top that off with the luxury features you expect in a car at these prices and it's a nice package.

What an X5M adds to that package is fun: Not a little fun, stupid, completely unnecessary, over the top, fun. It's always on, never relents. Yet it still does all those other things. This is where the Cayenne GT falls down. It doesn't really change the fun factor, but very much changes the cost of having that fun.

[PunsGalore]

In my personal opinion, I dont think Porsche SUV's are worth it. If money was no object, I'd get an X5M Comp with a 911 Turbo S cabriolet.. the Porsche SUV's feel like rebadged VW and Audi products, in part because they share the same chassis and some parts, whereas the 911 and 718 feel like true PORSCHE sports cars. To get the options the X5 comes standard with (vented seats, surround view, etc) you have to pay a LOT more. I like the looks of the X5 more, and 3 year complimentary service is nice. I was not impressed with the build quality of the Cayenne either, I feel 5+ years ago it was better - Also, the Cayenne Turbo GT is GT car first SUV second, so if you're shopping for an SUV thats also fun the Porsche isn't the way to go. With all that said, I dont think any model of the Cayenne is worth the price premium over the X5, unless you're tracking your SUV. Spend the money you save by going for the X5 on a Porsche sports car

[LDT]

Originally Posted by crabman

Porsche has been going downhill with their interiors in terms of more cheap bits for years. I had a Panamera when the Taycan came out and was surprised by the number of things that felt cheaper inside the Taycan. Of course they've done the same to the Panamera now.

I do agree about the sense of sturdiness, being well screwed together. Porsche does this better than anyone, although BMW is getting pretty good nowadays.

I don't agree with comparing a stripper Porsche to other cars. I like my cars loaded, and buy them that way. A Cayenne GT the way I configure it is in excess of 100k more than the X5M loaded. That is the GT I'm buying if I buy a GT.

I've had both the 14, and 18 way seats, like them both, I think Porsche does a good job with them.

I thought the Cayenne had better steering feel, but that said, I drive my Porsche's in either sport or sport plus at all times.

The likeable thing about SUVs is they make life easy. Big square box, no problem. Packing kids, groceries, got your back. Wanna see over traffic, there for ya. Don't want to climb up into or need a ladder to get out of, all good. Top that off with the luxury features you expect in a car at these prices and it's a nice package.

What an X5M adds to that package is fun: Not a little fun, stupid, completely unnecessary, over the top, fun. It's always on, never relents. Yet it still does all those other things. This is where the Cayenne GT falls down. It doesn't really change the fun factor, but very much changes the cost of having that fun.

I had a Panny loaner last year. The glove box handle came off in my hand. And it had rattles galore.

[crabman]

No such problems for me; no rattles, squeaks, etc. Nothing came off in my hands.

Reliability ratings between the Cayenne and BMW are very similar, and I don't recall a single gripe over there about anything falling off in someone's hands. Don't know what to tell you but that doesn't sound representative to me.

[LDT]

Originally Posted by crabman

No such problems for me; no rattles, squeaks, etc. Nothing came off in my hands.

Reliability ratings between the Cayenne and BMW are very similar, and I don't recall a single gripe over there about anything falling off in someone's hands. Don't know what to tell you but that doesn't sound representative to me.

Probably not representative but factual. It was a loaner/demo 4S and probably abused by multiple people.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by LDT

I had a Panny loaner last year. The glove box handle came off in my hand. And it had rattles galore.

Ever see a G05 X5 glove box cover? Can’t imagine feeling cheaper than that even if the dang thing came off in my hand.

[BlkGS]

German cars aren't really known for reliability. Well, I mean, they're known for poor reliability. It's a reputation they've definitely earned too.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by LDT

I had a Panny loaner last year. The glove box handle came off in my hand. And it had rattles galore.

Seems like an outlier. The plastics and leather on any Porsche Cayenne is higher quality than in any comparable X5. X5 is far better value though. You can get an X5M for the price of a fully loaded Macan GT - forget about the Cayenne. A fully loaded Cayenne GT is much more than even an XM Label.

[AgsWin]

I was in the same boat and had a 2024 Individual X5M in Chalk on order (with delay after delay). Got a call from my Porsche guy offering me a Turbo GT allocation. I took it and built it for $206k. I got it for $200k. Chalk with the blue wheels and cancelled my X5M order.

The styling is a little bland on the Porsche but you could also argue that the X5M styling can be a bit underwhelming as well since the standard X5 is too similar.

As far as power and handling, the Turbo GT blew away the X5M. It drove like a 911 and I never felt like I hit the limit or that the engine was struggling. The cornering was the best I've experienced in a non-sports car. The interior was updated (facelift in 2024 for the Cayenne), all digital and the blue stitching and Alcantara was pretty sweet as it matched the wheels.

I am a bigger guy and the seat bolstering on the X5M bothers me, in the Turbo GT it fit like a glove it felt like.

I would get an X5M over a standard Cayenne Turbo but the Turbo GT is on another level. Uses the same engine as the Urus and smokes it.

[medialook]

After owning 2 X5's (F15 30d & g05 30d) I wanted to try something else so I did get a 2022 Macan S. It did sound nice and looked great but after few months I ended selling it for brand new pre LCI G05 40d. Reasons? In general much more car for the money, more overal comfort, preffered the iDrive system, better fuel economy; quality wise Porsche was good although some elements were shocking - such as pairing chrome painted plastics buttons for opening the windows that evently broke with an anodised aluminium elements, hidden 12v sockets under the rubber cover of the mini storage compartment. I do miss the Porsche badge though and if budget allows I will get a 911 992 GTS the only right Porsche model (when budget allows &#128514 Currently my X5 will be my last BMW suv - I had two big repairs (some of which existed in my previous G05 like leaking pano roof) and AC heather box replacement that required dismantling the dashboard. Also the tablet style iDrive looks ugly IMHO. BMW new interior styling not in my style anymore - feels cheap and plasticky

[X5MC4ME]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Seems like an outlier. The plastics and leather on any Porsche Cayenne is higher quality than in any comparable X5. X5 is far better value though. You can get an X5M for the price of a fully loaded Macan GT - forget about the Cayenne. A fully loaded Cayenne GT is much more than even an XM Label.

Sorry that’s just not true. The leather quality is worse and plastics quality about the same. I’ve owned several of both brands. Now the Porsche leather is better than the lower BMW grades such as Dakota. But the Merino leather puts even the best Porsche leather to shame.

X

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by X5MC4ME

Sorry that’s just not true. The leather quality is worse and plastics quality about the same. I’ve owned several of both brands. Now the Porsche leather is better than the lower BMW grades such as Dakota. But the Merino leather puts even the best Porsche leather to shame.

X

LOL. If you say so….sure. If it makes you feel better, why not?

[tooloud10]

The discussion about Porsche interior quality makes me chuckle. Anyone that's been inside a 993/996/997 would laugh at the idea that Porsche is known for high quality interiors.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

The discussion about Porsche interior quality makes me chuckle. Anyone that's been inside a 993/996/997 would laugh at the idea that Porsche is known for high quality interiors.

The 997 wasn't too bad, very of it's era. The 993 was Spartan, it barely had an interior. The 996 interior was of its time, but garbage. People crap on the C5 Corvette interior (rightfully so), but the 996 interior is no better.

[mobsync]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

The discussion about Porsche interior quality makes me chuckle. Anyone that's been inside a 993/996/997 would laugh at the idea that Porsche is known for high quality interiors.

I miss Blaupunkt stereos with the blue dot.