[Pro55]

Is the 30D engine the same as the 50D minus 3 of the turbos?? Or is there more to it than that. A work colleague has had a TDI tuning box on his last 3 cars and swears by them. They even fitted it for free at their Chelmsford workshop. Please keep us updated. I would consider this myself.

[Bilajio]

Originally Posted by Pro55

Is the 30D engine the same as the 50D minus 3 of the turbos?? Or is there more to it than that. A work colleague has had a TDI tuning box on his last 3 cars and swears by them. They even fitted it for free at their Chelmsford workshop. Please keep us updated. I would consider this myself.

Originally Posted by Pro55

Is the 30D engine the same as the 50D minus 3 of the turbos?? Or is there more to it than that. A work colleague has had a TDI tuning box on his last 3 cars and swears by them. They even fitted it for free at their Chelmsford workshop. Please keep us updated. I would consider this myself.

I think this debate rattles on. In principle it's the same 3.0d block with 4 turbos, better cooling and uprated components to deal with the strain/heat.

I remember the mk4 golf TDI came in 4 flavours, 90bhp, 110, 130 & 150. Same 1.9tdi block. One would assume it was simply different states of tune but they did have different components.
Apparently the sweet spot was the 130bhp because the 150's components were prone to fail

[sjak92]

Originally Posted by Bilajio

I think this debate rattles on. In principle it's the same 3.0d block with 4 turbos, better cooling and uprated components to deal with the strain/heat.

I remember the mk4 golf TDI came in 4 flavours, 90bhp, 110, 130 & 150. Same 1.9tdi block. One would assume it was simply different states of tune but they did have different components.
Apparently the sweet spot was the 130bhp because the 150's components were prone to fail

Yes of course, there are variations to the power levels and some of this is component based that cannot be debated.

The best example (in the BMW range) is the 2.0d engine. The B47 for example came in 7 different states of tune ranging from 114bhp and 270nm in the "16d" variant to 228bhp and 500nm in the "25d". The difference is almost double the performance although the 25d was a twin turbo, everything below it was a single twin scroll. That was until back end of 2017 where the twin turbo set up trickled into the 20d and 18d versions.

Obviously the better the hardware the more you can push the engine. The Engine will take it and a Stage 1 tune is well within parameters for all of the stock components.

I used to work with a bloke who bought a new 116d M Sport in 2012. It was the base 114bhp one and he had it remapped to 120d levels. Run it for 4 years without any issues and part ex'd at the end of his lease.

Took 125d at that point and remapped again but this time round to almost 290bhp in excess of 500nm. Again, he's just about to hand it back it. That car was stupid fast and made easy work of 6 cylinder BMW's.

The reality is that BMW maps their cars in accordance to two things. Hardware and reliability. The latter is dictated by fuelling for example. The same 320d that you buy in the UK must run in any part of the world where fuel could be significantly worse, it could be running at super high altitudes with less air etc etc. The engine is well within its comfort zone. A great tech at my local BMW dealership told me once that the 30d engine in that configuration is running at 60% of its capability tops and there is ample room to add performance before hardware.

Alpina has been doing this for years with a great premium in price (albeit a lot of nice suspension and leather in those).

Its a case of running a map (and risk) vs paying BMW a big premium for the higher engine in the line up.

[pavloPL]

I have been researching the tuning options more and more.

Another thing I found is #truetune , basically a hardware which connects to ODB port and uploads a ECU remap. It is quite cheap £499 at the moment, guarantees increase power within safe limits, looks like more safe option than tuning boxes and the biggest advantage is that you can revert to stock mapping anytime by yourself.

Anyone heard of it, has any more details?

[ems328i]

Have you looked at Race Chip? Yes it is only a piggyback system but it works, I have the GTS Black on my F15 35i and it's a blast. Simply unplug before your next trip to the dealer, none the wiser:

https://www.racechip.co.uk/shop/bmw/...5kw-620nm.html

Another advantage is that if you change cars in the future, you can ship it back to them and for €100 they will re-flash it to work with your new car...

[sjak92]

Originally Posted by pavloPL

I have been researching the tuning options more and more.

Another thing I found is #truetune , basically a hardware which connects to ODB port and uploads a ECU remap. It is quite cheap £499 at the moment, guarantees increase power within safe limits, looks like more safe option than tuning boxes and the biggest advantage is that you can revert to stock mapping anytime by yourself.

Anyone heard of it, has any more details?

Look at my post from a couple of days ago. I had one and it sounds a great piece of kit - was perfect solution for me. However, software newer that 03/2019 and your car is not compatible as OBD is locked for now. I waited from January to May for an update but nothing was forthcoming.

Any dealer update will flash the car with newer software which could again lock the OBD and you won't be able to flash the car once again.

[sjak92]

Originally Posted by ems328i

Have you looked at Race Chip? Yes it is only a piggyback system but it works, I have the GTS Black on my F15 35i and it's a blast. Simply unplug before your next trip to the dealer, none the wiser:

https://www.racechip.co.uk/shop/bmw/...5kw-620nm.html

Another advantage is that if you change cars in the future, you can ship it back to them and for €100 they will re-flash it to work with your new car...

Thats exactly what the TDI tuning box does.

However, they are cheaper and local to me. Also, the Racechip gets bad press on many forums whereas TDI tuning and DTUK seem not to. Lastly, 786nm running through the gearbox (if true) is excessive. 720nm is safe limit for the ZHP8 and that's what I stuck to.

[ems328i]

Originally Posted by sjak92

Thats exactly what the TDI tuning box does.

However, they are cheaper and local to me. Also, the Racechip gets bad press on many forums whereas TDI tuning and DTUK seem not to. Lastly, 786nm running through the gearbox (if true) is excessive. 720nm is safe limit for the ZHP8 and that's what I stuck to.

I understood that's what the TDI box does, I was just offering an alternative. FWIW there are a lot of guys running GTS Black on the F15 forum here without any issues, although I have heard of problems wiith the older Ultimate model. And according to ZF the 'box is rated from 300NM-1000NM? Anyway, local and cheaper would win for me too

[sjak92]

Originally Posted by ems328i

And according to ZF the 'box is rated from 300NM-1000NM? Anyway, local and cheaper would win for me too

Depending on the specific model of gearbox. M50d/i has a higher top end value. 30/40d is lower (720nm)

[pavloPL]

Originally Posted by sjak92

Look at my post from a couple of days ago. I had one and it sounds a great piece of kit - was perfect solution for me. However, software newer that 03/2019 and your car is not compatible as OBD is locked for now. I waited from January to May for an update but nothing was forthcoming.

Any dealer update will flash the car with newer software which could again lock the OBD and you won't be able to flash the car once again.

Right, thanks for info!

[James_G0540i]

Here's an interesting question, would anyone here think about upgrading from a 30D to a 50D? ..its a damn pity the 30D's potential isn't used, I think they should offer he 40d as the minimum.

I'm seriously considering it, and have even asked my dealer for a changeover price (30D to 50D) on a car with similar mileage.

However after seeing this TDI tuning box - it might be a hell of a lot cheaper than a changeover. My only concern with the tuning box is Warranty, and if anything fails and the dealer picks up a tuning box - they may not honour the warranty.

[sjak92]

Originally Posted by James_G0530d

Here's an interesting question, would anyone here think about upgrading from a 30D to a 50D? ..its a damn pity the 30D's potential isn't used, I think they should offer he 40d as the minimum.

I'm seriously considering it, and have even asked my dealer for a changeover price (30D to 50D) on a car with similar mileage.

However after seeing this TDI tuning box - it might be a hell of a lot cheaper than a changeover. My only concern with the tuning box is Warranty, and if anything fails and the dealer picks up a tuning box - they may not honour the warranty.

No I never considered the M50d for a few reasons:

1) I was 27 when I bought my X5 last year, insurance on a m50d would have been almost impossible

2) Significantly worse fuel consumption- confirmed by OTR experience

3) Less comfortable due to suspension

4) Deals were not as good and no 2.9apr offered on M50d would have been at least £200 a month more and I don't see the point

In reality I would have gotten a 40d but was 8 months too early for that. Absolutely no reason to change in my opinion. Plus the loss your take on the 30d to trade up would be significant

[Bilajio]

Originally Posted by sjak92

No I never considered the M50d for a few reasons:

1) I was 27 when I bought my X5 last year, insurance on a m50d would have been almost impossible

2) Significantly worse fuel consumption- confirmed by OTR experience

3) Less comfortable due to suspension

4) Deals were not as good and no 2.9apr offered on M50d would have been at least £200 a month more and I don't see the point

In reality I would have gotten a 40d but was 8 months too early for that. Absolutely no reason to change in my opinion. Plus the loss your take on the 30d to trade up would be significant

Originally Posted by sjak92

No I never considered the M50d for a few reasons:

1) I was 27 when I bought my X5 last year, insurance on a m50d would have been almost impossible

2) Significantly worse fuel consumption- confirmed by OTR experience

3) Less comfortable due to suspension

4) Deals were not as good and no 2.9apr offered on M50d would have been at least £200 a month more and I don't see the point

In reality I would have gotten a 40d but was 8 months too early for that. Absolutely no reason to change in my opinion. Plus the loss your take on the 30d to trade up would be significant

Similar boat, the insurance and additional monthly cost didn't make sense. I can just about get Mrs insured on the 30d, no chance on the 50d.

Maybe down the line but it wasn't part of the buying decision

[sjak92]

Originally Posted by Bilajio

Similar boat, the insurance and additional monthly cost didn't make sense. I can just about get Mrs insured on the 30d, no chance on the 50d.

Maybe down the line but it wasn't part of the buying decision

realistically I don't think you need that much performance from an SUV. I just popped out to the bank now and around town the car drives just as normal but is much more responsive from roundabouts etc. Its perfectly adequate for what it needs to be.

the 40d is obviously the better choice and is priced very well. However, After my post this morning, I did a some digging on same spec 30d vs 40d and after discounts, the difference is far more than £2k. The 30d is far more incentivised and will continue to sell best.

With the 50d, like for like spec as mine, the price difference is £7775. that's around £190 a month more purely on the basis that every £1k is £24p/m to taking into account APR's GFV's and PPM costs

Add insurance to that and increased fuel on monthly basis at say £100. At almost £300 a month difference, my man maths would probably allow me to stretch to a second car for that, say a 2017ish M240i or a very nice E46 M3 for even less.

[James_G0540i]

Originally Posted by sjak92

realistically I don't think you need that much performance from an SUV. I just popped out to the bank now and around town the car drives just as normal but is much more responsive from roundabouts etc. Its perfectly adequate for what it needs to be.

the 40d is obviously the better choice and is priced very well. However, After my post this morning, I did a some digging on same spec 30d vs 40d and after discounts, the difference is far more than £2k. The 30d is far more incentivised and will continue to sell best.

With the 50d, like for like spec as mine, the price difference is £7775. that's around £190 a month more purely on the basis that every £1k is £24p/m to taking into account APR's GFV's and PPM costs

Add insurance to that and increased fuel on monthly basis at say £100. At almost £300 a month difference, my man maths would probably allow me to stretch to a second car for that, say a 2017ish M240i or a very nice E46 M3 for even less.

You've raised some great points, and I'm sold on keeping my 30D. As you said the loss on my 1 year old 30D would be horrendous.

Out of curiosity, I did an online insurance quote and it was 3 x times the price of my 30D, and I'm in my mid-40s ! - seems the Insurance bill is proportional to the number of turbos !

The increased fuel consumption is an interesting one. The 50D is the same motor as the 30D, and I would have assumed the fuel consumption would be roughly the same for "normal" driving.
I can understand consumption being different for spirited or performance driving where all 4 x turbos are winding up, but for normal driving I would expect only 1 or 2 of them really coming into use?

[sjak92]

Originally Posted by James_G0530d

You've raised some great points, and I'm sold on keeping my 30D. As you said the loss on my 1 year old 30D would be horrendous.

Out of curiosity, I did an online insurance quote and it was 3 x times the price of my 30D, and I'm in my mid-40s ! - seems the Insurance bill is proportional to the number of turbos !

The increased fuel consumption is an interesting one. The 50D is the same motor as the 30D, and I would have assumed the fuel consumption would be roughly the same for "normal" driving.
I can understand consumption being different for spirited or performance driving where all 4 x turbos are winding up, but for normal driving I would expect only 1 or 2 of them really coming into use?

Aged old question that. Reality is more power = more likely to push on, even pootling around town.

If this is anything to go by:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/bmw/x5-2018

then the difference is around 10%. Considering I have averaged 28mpg over the cars first 4500 miles, if I was to be getting 24/25, I would have gone for a petrol haha

[sjak92]

Very quick update on the Tuning Box.

Consumption is clearly better. I averaged 27.7 from factory up to 4500 (bang on) when box was installed.

Over last week I have 30 miles (I know, not a lot) but purely around town. 29.0 mpg in that time. Have floored it a few times too which on such a small ranged would have affected the consumption.

Really want to test this on a longer stretch (best I ever got was high 40's over 200 miles) but obviously cannot do that at the moment

[Bilajio]

Originally Posted by sjak92

Very quick update on the Tuning Box.

Consumption is clearly better. I averaged 27.7 from factory up to 4500 (bang on) when box was installed.

Over last week I have 30 miles (I know, not a lot) but purely around town. 29.0 mpg in that time. Have floored it a few times too which on such a small ranged would have affected the consumption.

Really want to test this on a longer stretch (best I ever got was high 40's over 200 miles) but obviously cannot do that at the moment

Originally Posted by sjak92

Very quick update on the Tuning Box.

Consumption is clearly better. I averaged 27.7 from factory up to 4500 (bang on) when box was installed.

Over last week I have 30 miles (I know, not a lot) but purely around town. 29.0 mpg in that time. Have floored it a few times too which on such a small ranged would have affected the consumption.

Really want to test this on a longer stretch (best I ever got was high 40's over 200 miles) but obviously cannot do that at the moment

27.7 mpg, is that majority city driving as I get mid to late 30's but spend 90% at motorway speeds.

Out of curiosity, how are you finding the power delivery and where is the tuning box dumping the power? Is it following the same curve?

[sjak92]

Originally Posted by Bilajio

27.7 mpg, is that majority city driving as I get mid to late 30's but spend 90% at motorway speeds.

Out of curiosity, how are you finding the power delivery and where is the tuning box dumping the power? Is it following the same curve?

Mainly around town. I'd say around a third of that 4500 would have been at least 50mph A road and motorway speeds.

Power delivery is linear and same as normal power curve

[James_G0540i]

Originally Posted by sjak92

Mainly around town. I'd say around a third of that 4500 would have been at least 50mph A road and motorway speeds.

Power delivery is linear and same as normal power curve

Do you have a link/URL to where I can have a closer look at the TDI box? (I wonder if they ship to Australia?)

I know you mentioned installation was around 25 minutes, can you post any instructions or pics?

Now that I've abandoned the 50D idea, I'm very tempted to go for this option. I'd be more than happy with a sub 6 second -100kmph.

[sjak92]

Originally Posted by James_G0530d

Do you have a link/URL to where I can have a closer look at the TDI box? (I wonder if they ship to Australia?)

I know you mentioned installation was around 25 minutes, can you post any instructions or pics?

Now that I've abandoned the 50D idea, I'm very tempted to go for this option. I'd be more than happy with a sub 6 second -100kmph.

PM'd

[Masterplan]

Originally Posted by sjak92

PM'd

What box did you end up going for in the end?