[speedyman]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Looks like you have no idea what 'stimulate the economy' means! Honestly, you need to do just a little bit of reading. Whenever the govt spends money on projects or relaxes the money supply - without raising the same in taxes it stimulates the economy. The green new deal is a massive spending plan so it will stimulate the economy. Now, whether you agree with the spending or not is another matter, but spending is stimulating…

You are just looking for a political angle to everything. FWIW, we have an X5 (50i) and a Tesla Model Y Performance at home. Both are good. I wasn't thinking politics when we bought either. One is more comfortable, one is more economic and both are fun. I prefer the X5, my wife the Tesla and life goes on.

In general less pollution is better than more a d cleaner environment is better for all. The only question really is whether it is worth the cost. Or are you saying you's rather live in a polluted place but the govt is not allowing you.

You know without any regulation life would be pretty hard. All we are arguing about is when is there too much?

My only advice is that you should think about the facts and the world you want to live in and your kids to live in. I bet you are glad you live in a clean environment - but hate the regulations that made it possible.

Not sure why you consider this an argument I find it rather entertaining.
I doubt that anyone here who has weighed in on the subject and shares my perspectives appreciates your condescending lecture right out of the "drop to the lowest level when challenged" Liberal playbook that is really tired and painfully redundant at this point.
Gotta love the Libs who prefer their lives to be regulated and dictated by massive government, YUK. Why are Liberal cesspools like CA, NY, NJ, etc. such disasters that people are leaving in droves?

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Not sure why you consider this an argument I find it rather entertaining.
I doubt that anyone here who has weighed in on the subject and shares my perspectives appreciates your condescending lecture right out of the "drop to the lowest level when challenged" Liberal playbook that is really tired and painfully redundant at this point.
Gotta love the Libs who prefer their lives to be regulated and dictated by massive government, YUK. Why are Liberal cesspools like CA, NY, NJ, etc. such disasters that people are leaving in droves?

Remove those 'liberal' cesspools and US is probably a 3rd world country with almost no competitive differentiators. Most of America's tax base comes from those places. Even in FL and Texas, Austin and Miami are 'liberal cess pools' according to you. So what exactly is a great place according to you?

[MOTOP]

Originally Posted by SFBavarianArea

No….just, no.

The official term, in general, is referred to as climate change.

And it isn't a war on fossil fuels/oil/coal necessarily, it's a war on spewing pollutants in to the dirt we walk on, air we breathe and water we drink.

If there were a healthier, more efficient and cleaner way to do things for future generations why not investigate that? Why not strive to push the envelope? Isn't that what we (humans) essentially did to kick off the Industrial Revolution?

p.s. I'm genuinely asking by the way as i'm no history major…

Dude...you're indeed from SF ? :-)

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by fe03h20

Dude...you're indeed from SF ? :-)

West Coast Libbers have it all figured out don't they.
13% state income tax so they can shack up drug addicted bums in Ritz Carlton Hotels when the side walks overflow with encampments along with all the other disgusting crap that comes with this evidence of a failed system. Lots of good reasons to get out of that place.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Not sure why you consider this an argument I find it rather entertaining.
I doubt that anyone here who has weighed in on the subject and shares my perspectives appreciates your condescending lecture right out of the "drop to the lowest level when challenged" Liberal playbook that is really tired and painfully redundant at this point.
Gotta love the Libs who prefer their lives to be regulated and dictated by massive government, YUK. Why are Liberal cesspools like CA, NY, NJ, etc. such disasters that people are leaving in droves?

I'm awaiting your response to the data from NASA I provided. Any data of significance to support your initial statement?

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by speedyman

West Coast Libbers have it all figured out don't they.
13% state income tax so they can shack up drug addicted bums in Ritz Carlton Hotels when the side walks overflow with encampments along with all the other disgusting crap that comes with this evidence of a failed system. Lots of good reasons to get out of that place.

The problem with you is that you are only focusing on the negatives. No one said the West Coast is perfect. But why don't you tell us what you view as success? Just list a couple of specific places/cities that are overall better than your so called 'liberal' places. Please, for once instead of just throwing random insults on people and places, please point us to where it is 'good' according to you.

Would be good to know what those areas are contributing to society…

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by jmack123

I'm awaiting your response to the data from NASA I provided. Any data of significance to support your initial statement?

Scientific "Consensus"? That's a good one.
Gotta love all the save the planet stuff from those who drive 5,200 lb luxury SUVs. Almost as good as our celebrity climatologists who spend their lives running around in limousines and Lear Jets telling us common folk to walk or ride bicycles. Yeah, we should listen to these folks.
The hypocrisy and nonsense that surrounds this global warming crap is just off the scale. It is a perfect tool for promoting a far left political agenda.

[TargaM2]

Forget the whole hypocritical electric vehicle argument, hydrogen is where the future lays.
As usual it will be governments & poor infrastructure that slow the eventual implementation.

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

Forget the whole hypocritical electric vehicle argument, hydrogen is where the future lays.
As usual it will governments & poor infrastructure that slow the eventual implementation.

That could very well be and likely a better alternative to the acquisition of rare earth minerals and PIA recharging of the EVs. Internal combustion and EVs for those who prefer them will work fine for decades if needed while these alternative technologies are developed and refined. This is simply not an emergency as some factions would have you believe. We just do not need tree huggers and politicians imposing unrealistic deadlines along the way.

[KRS_SN]

I don't want to plug in unless I'm forced.
I love the x5 and this hydrogen solution seems good to me.
If for an extra cost I can gain convenience and comfort over plugging in and range anxiety and can replace weight of battery with better interiors I would think its a good idea.

[yousefnjr]

I think we're at a point where EVs are so good that you can not give a rats ass about the environment and still love them. I understand very well the emotion and experience that comes with a gas engine and 6MT. I also understand very well how nice it is to have a smooth drivetrain, no maintenance, and never having to get gas. I am admittedly a BMW fanboy but I also love cars in general, and it is hard to not be impressed by that new Model S Plaid that came out last week. Over 1000hp and 9.2 in the qtr for $130k, panel gaps be damned. Who knows what the future holds for ICE engines, but this kind of performance/dollar is available today from EVs -- and you can still own your gas powered toys too. What a time to be alive.

To that point, I wonder what the cost/benefits are in terms of performance comparing plug-in vs hydrogen EV's. Do you get to use a smaller battery with a hydrogen setup? How much does the fuel cell and rest of the system weigh? Will be interesting to see how these things shake out, and its happening quickly

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by FCX5

The problem with you is that you are only focusing on the negatives. No one said the West Coast is perfect. But why don't you tell us what you view as success? Just list a couple of specific places/cities that are overall better than your so called 'liberal' places. Please, for once instead of just throwing random insults on people and places, please point us to where it is 'good' according to you.

Would be good to know what those areas are contributing to society…

OK, I get it Dude. You obviously don't agree with me and I don't need your anger. Let it go.
You can quit stalking me as I am never going to see the climate thing the way you do and that is just fine by me. All good on my end.
Time for you to take a deep breath and just calm down. The earth isn't going to turn into a ball of charcoal next week.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Scientific "Consensus"? That's a good one.
Gotta love all the save the planet stuff from those who drive 5,200 lb luxury SUVs. Almost as good as our celebrity climatologists who spend their lives running around in limousines and Lear Jets telling us common folk to walk or ride bicycles. Yeah, we should listen to these folks.
The hypocrisy and nonsense that surrounds this global warming crap is just off the scale. It is a perfect tool for promoting a far left political agenda.

Again, that is not the consensus. Of course you need to fly or drive cars. What is being said is that there should be a proportionate tax for things that pollute more and the money should be invested in technologies that pollute less.

This is based on an economic term known as 'externality' where IF the use of a product also impacts the well being of others is not taxed, it will result in overuse of that resource. Again, not a topic for a car forum, but I am pointing this out since you seem to be well meaning, but you are saying things without understanding.

My point is that if you want to understand the issues you can. But you need to stop making everything political.

OK. BMW is trying different things because that is how innovation works. Some will work and some won't. Some customers will like their directions, some won't. Nothing to do with politics, just what makes business sense. I am sure their primary objective is not to save the world, but to be a successful company.

Why do you think all the German companies are now at the forefront of EV technology? They must innovate or they will die.

As someone pointed out, Tesla S Plaid is an insane achievement for a sedan at this price point. Instead of making it political, just appreciate how we got here.

No one is saying ICE or oil will cease to exist snd planes will be flying on batteries etc. There is probably some other innovation needed there.

Anyway, I understand it's hard to change anyone's mind. You will believe what you will. We don't need consensus on everything to live in ✌️

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

I think we're at a point where EVs are so good that you can not give a rats ass about the environment and still love them. I understand very well the emotion and experience that comes with a gas engine and 6MT. I also understand very well how nice it is to have a smooth drivetrain, no maintenance, and never having to get gas. I am admittedly a BMW fanboy but I also love cars in general, and it is hard to not be impressed by that new Model S Plaid that came out last week. Over 1000hp and 9.2 in the qtr for $130k, panel gaps be damned. Who knows what the future holds for ICE engines, but this kind of performance/dollar is available today from EVs -- and you can still own your gas powered toys too. What a time to be alive.

To that point, I wonder what the cost/benefits are in terms of performance comparing plug-in vs hydrogen EV's. Do you get to use a smaller battery with a hydrogen setup? How much does the fuel cell and rest of the system weigh? Will be interesting to see how these things shake out, and its happening quickly

Yeah, how about this Tesla. Low 9 second car and 0-60 in 2 seconds, wow, just wow. There is also supposed to be a 2 seat roadster coming with similar performance stats.
You are right, what a great time to be a gear head.

[fndrplayer13]

Not to be too much of a downer here, but we're past the point of being able to do much about climate collapse anyway. Buying different cars will not fix these problems, nor will other individual choices. These are huge global issues that require global solutions and changes in how economy and trade work. Given that and the absolute inability of most first world countries to do anything serious about these problems, I think it's fair to say you shouldn't feel too guilty about your X5 or Model S or Escalade or whatever. It's not your fault as an individual. This is a collective problem and the collective is unable to act coherently.

[SFBavarianArea]

Originally Posted by fe03h20

Dude...you're indeed from SF ? :-)

*blushes*

Is it that obvious 😝

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by jmack123

I'm awaiting your response to the data from NASA I provided. Any data of significance to support your initial statement?

I'm not meaning to take a position or get political, just adding some information. While 97% of the published scientists agree you really can't draw a conclusion from that on how the whole population thinks. I would bet the majority agrees with anthropogenic causes but those who get published need to be chosen by the peer review journals and there could be, and likely is, a bias towards man having an influence on climate change. In addition to that, the overwhelming majority of peer reviewed articles come from funded studies and for many years now there has been much more funding available for studies to confirm anthropogenic causes than not.

That said (I guess I'm taking a position here), I would bet a large amount of money that 90+% of "climate scientists" believe that humans are having the biggest influence on climate change. The amount of data, examples and models out there just can't be ignored in my opinion. It took me many years to come to that conclusion as I was a "skeptic" from way back when it was called Global Warming and Al was running around making outrageous claims. I used to blog for the local paper and more than once covered the "nonsense" that was global warming evidence. Maybe with a little luck, in another 20 years the earth would have returned to "normal" and I will be able to write about the days I was suckered into believing man had an effect on our climate.

[themnmd]

Originally Posted by Penguino

Curious how sustainable and clean Hydrogen is and any possible effects on global warming if every vehicle on earth starts releasing water vapor?

It will more humid?

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I'm not meaning to take a position or get political, just adding some information. While 97% of the published scientists agree you really can't draw a conclusion from that on how the whole population thinks. I would bet the majority agrees with anthropogenic causes but those who get published need to be chosen by the peer review journals and there could be, and likely is, a bias towards man having an influence on climate change. In addition to that, the overwhelming majority of peer reviewed articles come from funded studies and for many years now there has been much more funding available for studies to confirm anthropogenic causes than not.

That said (I guess I'm taking a position here), I would bet a large amount of money that 90+% of "climate scientists" believe that humans are having the biggest influence on climate change. The amount of data, examples and models out there just can't be ignored in my opinion. It took me many years to come to that conclusion as I was a "skeptic" from way back when it was called Global Warming and Al was running around making outrageous claims. I used to blog for the local paper and more than once covered the "nonsense" that was global warming evidence. Maybe with a little luck, in another 20 years the earth would have returned to "normal" and I will be able to write about the days I was suckered into believing man had an effect on our climate.

Good insights. I agree one can't ignore the fact that academia is a business and special interests know they can be used to buy credibility. However, one needs to look at the preponderance of the evidence. Yeah, I was a global warming skeptic as well since the initial evidence seemed really spotty to me.

It's important to not just believe things on blind faith and to keep an open mind….

[MadBimmeRad]

"More than 99 percent of all organisms that have ever lived on Earth are extinct. As new species evolve to fit ever changing ecological niches, older species fade away. But the rate of extinction is far from constant. At least a handful of times in the last 500 million years, 75 to more than 90 percent of all species on Earth have disappeared in a geological blink of an eye in catastrophes we call mass extinctions.

Though mass extinctions are deadly events, they open up the planet for new forms of life to emerge."

National Geographic

Extinction is an inevitable consequence of dominance of a singular species over all others.

Life on Earth is like a peloton crash in cycling. While everything is going smoothly, everyone in the peloton powers on happily and in harmony with the rest of the peloton. One cyclist crashes and the whole peloton falls apart. But often a few cyclists survive the crash and go on to the end.

Humanity is the cyclist that crashed; Earth the cycling race.

Earth has survived many catastrophes prior to humans and shall do so many more. Humanity on the other hand; I'm not so sure about.

[speedyman]

It doesn't appear that China, India, and a bunch of other countries who are eating the worlds lunch have gotten the Global Warming memo and bought into the environmental hysteria yet.
Maybe John Kerry can save the planet. What a bunch of manipulative Liberal BS.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by speedyman

It doesn't appear that China, India, and a bunch of other countries who are eating the worlds lunch have gotten the Global Warming memo and bought into the environmental hysteria yet.
Maybe John Kerry can save the planet. What a bunch of manipulative Liberal BS.

Here i was thinking this was a friendly forum about BMWs, was I wrong Artemis ?