[RyanKM]

Hi all,
Was shortlisting my next vehicle- most likely and X5. .
i was trying to understand more on the power train mode, and what is the typical practice. Had ask a few sales agent, but each give different answer. (either lack of knowledge or trying too hard to seal the deal)

did search around the forum on the similar topic, but found nothing so far- may be i search at the wrong area.
A few question to start off....

1. what is the real millage we getting in pure Electrical (E-mode)? in another words what is the range
2. in hybrid mode - as understand the car will start in E-mode? and Start engine if we press the pedal hard? if we continue w the pedal.... will it continue to be in E-mode until a certain kick in speed? what speed is this?
3. Say- a typical driver in city traffic (average style between aggressive and gentle) - for a drive of 50km- how much battery would it consume, approx?
4. what is the typical practice? say if i commute daily around 50km, typically will charge every 2-3 days?
the reason i ask as - to be sure if it is a daily thing, or 2X a week charging.

I say in a landed house, will most likely make use of the available wall plug ( so just level 1 charging).
5- as heard 13amps wall socket could take 12 hrs from 20% to 100%. Right? , more or less there?
6- Full EV car- typically dont charge until 100% to prolong battery life, isnt the same apply for PHEV?
7- in highway drive, can i say the E-mode almost dont come in to play? does it help out in say 80km/hr accelerate to 120km/hr?
8- how is the feel of full combustion power? in case battery run out? sluggish?
9 are there any battery charging/regen charging during braking? heard near to none.
10 does some people drive in like a full EV in city, day in day out? it isnt really my intention but just wanna understand its capability

PS-I am not really in favor of daily charging. it is a little hassle especially am not driving a full EV.

many thanks in advance.

[eluded]

I get about 2 miles per KW, lower when it's cold, a bit more when warm. I charge every day.

[nZtiZia]

I don’t know how the electrical rates compare with petrol rates there in Singapore, but if they’re the same or higher per mile, then the X5 PHEV doesn’t make sense for you. you also mentioned that you wouldn’t charge every day, but when you do, you’ll be using the wall outlet. the PHEV shines if you’re able to fully charge every day so that those electric miles offsets petrol miles. couple that with charging at 10A (which is the maximum charge rate of the included charger), you’ll have little electric miles each day, so again it doesn’t make sense for you. conversely, a full EV doesn’t need to be charged every day much like one doesn’t refuel a petrol vehicle every day

[LOFT]

Let's start the assumption that you are in control. With than in mind:

I have a 50 km round trip route in my commute with my 45e, which is a mix of highway and suburban roads.

If I press the Electric button I can do it all in electric even at 120/125 km/hour. However your acceleration is diminished in all electric so you can mix ICE and electric until you get to cruising speed and let electric do its work. I get a true 50 km round trip range with this approach.

Or you let your car do your thinking for you. My experience is that once the ICE kicks in on the highway it will stay there to provide you good passing power. When I exit to the suburban road it goes back to electric.

Using the above approaches, I charge every day and gas up maybe once or twice every two months.

Re: charging, I have a Level 2 and it takes around 5-6 hours. A level 1 will be at least 12-13 hours. If you can handle that in your car usage needs/schedule, it can be a daily commuter EV vehicle.

Range changes (summer is 60 km, winter is 40 km).

Hope this helps.

[jad03060]

1. what is the real millage we getting in pure Electrical (E-mode)? in another words what is the rangeIt depends on how and where you drive, but those outside of the USA market, get to use more of the battery, so probably over 50-miles
2. in hybrid mode - as understand the car will start in E-mode? and Start engine if we press the pedal hard? if we continue w the pedal.... will it continue to be in E-mode until a certain kick in speed? what speed is this?In hybrid mode, the computer chooses the most economical mode, which could be hybrid with engine running, or EV mode, and it will switch back and forth based on the battery charge and how you’re driving it and where, based on the current charge level and rate of progress
3. Say- a typical driver in city traffic (average style between aggressive and gentle) - for a drive of 50km- how much battery would it consume, approx?City traffic would provide lots of opportunities for regeneration, so it’s hard to say…never hit a stop sign or red light, and you get very good range considering the weight and size of the vehicle
4. what is the typical practice? say if i commute daily around 50km, typically will charge every 2-3 days?Personally, I just plug mine in when I get home, you might get two days, but it might switch to hybrid mode with the ICE on later the second day
the reason i ask as - to be sure if it is a daily thing, or 2X a week charging.

I say in a landed house, will most likely make use of the available wall plug ( so just level 1 charging).If your power is 220vac, the included EVSE would put out 10A maximum, so 2200W max/hour, so about 10-hours. If it’s 110vac, double that at least
5- as heard 13amps wall socket could take 12 hrs from 20% to 100%. Right? , more or less there?see above…charging is not 100% efficient, so you could probably add at least 10% to those hypothetical numbers
6- Full EV car- typically dont charge until 100% to prolong battery life, isnt the same apply for PHEV?While the 2024 and 2025 X5 allows you to set the maximum, you can limit it if you want, but many people don’t. Note, when it says no E-range left, there’s still a fair amount left in the battery, but BMW’s logic won’t let you use it, so you never really get it to zero.
7- in highway drive, can i say the E-mode almost dont come in to play? does it help out in say 80km/hr accelerate to 120km/hr?The vehicle will almost always still boost a bit with EV, regardless of the mode…the mode sets the priority mode of driving
8- how is the feel of full combustion power? in case battery run out? sluggish?The vehicle is no slug, even with the battery discharged…it’s just faster when you have some charge left that’s usable
9 are there any battery charging/regen charging during braking? heard near to none.It depends on the mode, the battery temperature, and current battery charge level, but almost always will the vehicle do some regeneration when you slow down either by coasting or when braking. Note, the vehicle has brake-by-wire, and the hydraulic brakes are only used at the end just prior to a stop, or if you press harder and the computer thinks hydraulic braking is going to be needed. It will also revert to hydraulic braking alone if it detects a fault in the controller.
10 does some people drive in like a full EV in city, day in day out? it isnt really my intention but just wanna understand its capabilityI’m fine with the available power when in a city at lower speeds, and unless your battery gets low, you switch modes, or push it, it will be in EV mode unless you manually switch to sport mode where the primary motor is the ICE

[dwwStL]

unless you can do level 2 charging at home or work, an EV or PHEV just doesn't make sense. A well depleted EV can take 13 hours to charge on Level 2 and 4.5 for a PHEV. On a wall socket it would take days. It just doesn't make sense.

[jad03060]

The US definition of level 1, 2 is different from the mode used in many other places. You’re often better off where 220-240vac is the normal wall plug versus where 120vac is. The supplied EVSE is configured for the local market, but with the FFS unit delivered, if you have different voltage/current available, you can often order an optional supply voltage cord for the FFS unit to allow faster charging. For example, as delivered in the USA, it’s what we call level 1 charging, and the thing plugs into a 120vac socket and is configured to produce a maximum of 10A. But, it can supply up to 40A at 240vac if you happen to have that socket available with an optional supply cord. Across the world, that FFS unit can supply a variety of currents and comes with various plugs to fit lots of various supplies. Exactly what’s available in specific markets, you’d have to ask the dealer. The current unit is series 2 (that I know of), and the cords from the original version do NOT work with version 2, so make sure you check for compatibility.

[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by dwwStL

unless you can do level 2 charging at home or work, an EV or PHEV just doesn't make sense. A well depleted EV can take 13 hours to charge on Level 2 and 4.5 for a PHEV. On a wall socket it would take days. It just doesn't make sense.

OP is in Singapore, the standard household voltage is 230v, this info is irrelevant

[Aussiejem]

In Australia, the norm is 240v at domestic socket. I have a Tesla AC wall charger (CCS2) with a feed of 240v and 10A. Seems to be great, especially with solar which the Tesla charger varies from grid to solar according to solar reed input. Great tech! Looking forward to juicing my 50e in this way too.

[jad03060]

Power = volts * amps, so yes, amps are an integral part of it when trying to move power around. But, the 50e is internally limited to a maximum power draw of 7400W, just like a lamp…it will only draw what it wants. An EVSE and vehicle are a bit smarter, as the EVSE sends out a signal that says “I have X amps available”, then, it’s up to the vehicle to ensure it never tries to pull more amps than the EVSE said it had. SO, 7400/240=30,83A…IOW, the 50e would require an EVSE able to provide at least 30.83A to max it out, but will still charge with anything less, just not as fast.

[RyanKM]

Hi all, thanks for all the informative responds.
well- just to make myself clear.

> my question 1 is more on the range ( rather than millage). i understand this car give decents mpg especially with EV function, and yes- we gotto factor in the Kwhr paid as well. Now- those that afford a 70,000$ car- would not car much about the 100$ save per month, would he/she?

> my main concern is the need of plug in daily. That is really a hassle. i dont mind 2-3 time a week.

>lastly- found this article on regen braking- apparently if one put in sports mode- it can regen the battery. Not sure it make sense, nor serve the objective well that burning more fuel and the ICE to charge the battery. If such is possible, it does bring some convenient.

@ 8.35

yes, this part of the world we use 240VAC,

[dwwStL]

Originally Posted by aaaaaaaaaz

OP is in Singapore, the standard household voltage is 230v, this info is irrelevant

Don't amps play a roll? Are Singapore wall outlets 40 amp service? Or are you saying 230V 10 or 20 amp service is the same as 240v 40 amp service in the US?

I'm not an electrician so I can appreciate that I got this wrong.

[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by dwwStL

Don't amps play a roll? Are Singapore wall outlets 40 amp service? Or are you saying 230V 10 or 20 amp service is the same as 240v 40 amp service in the US?

I'm not an electrician so I can appreciate that I got this wrong.

I don’t see where you mentioned amp rating in your post. L1 and L2 is not a concept outside N. America. The minimum charging standard in most 220-240v world is equivalent to L2 in US

[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by dwwStL

So amps matter? I get it, you just wanted to take a cheap shot at me. Common enough on car forums. But forget about me. If you can. My question is serious. I'm not an electrician but my understanding is that amps matter and level 2 charging in 220-240V regions still requires 40 amps are more. If I'm wrong, I apologize. But I really want to know.

L2 in US here is kind of generic, referring to 200-240v charging. How many amp can be provided varies greatly, and in fact you will rarely see 40A * 240V = 9.6kw units.

The "cable" or "charger" (the real charger is in the car, but people usually refer to the charging station) is responsible to tell the car the max capability, so the car does not attempt draw more than what the infrastructure is capable of.

The most popular ones, "chargepoint", you see in company parking lots are most likely 208V * 32A giving you ~6.6kw. Most home L2 charger, is set up as 230V * 32A giving you ~7.4kw in theory. The most capable L2 charger available is 240V * 80A giving you ~19.2kw but it is very rare. 50e is able to take advantage of up to 7.4kw charging rate though.

Note that typically electrical code ask for persistent load <= 80% of capacity. Home with only 20A breaker available for charging use will only allow you to install a 16A charger, which gives ~3.7kw charging rate. (which is the max rate 45e can take). It would take ~7h to fully charge 50e, still very reasonable.

Cables capable for less than 20A is rarely used as a main line.

[RyanKM]

over this side of the world....

L1 means off the wall socket(existing cable, not sure what gauge used in malaysia) - means 240V, max 13A
L2 means pull dedicated cable, 3phase from DB box.....

L3... means DC charging.
suppose above is general term, the actual kW differs slightly from location to location.

[jad03060]

The included EVSE will have a specific maximum capacity, based on the country of use. In the USA, the default output of the included EVSE is 10A at 120vac.

It does not matter what the wall socket is capable of, as it is the EVSE that is plugged in that tells the vehicle how much power it can provide, then it’s up to the vehicle to never try to draw more. Then, you have the limitation of the vehicle’s internal power supply which is 7.4Kw when single phase power is involved, and a bit more if it supports 3-phase. 3-phase is NOT supported in the USA.

Just like plugging in your cellphone charger, even though the circuit might support a 1500W heater, if the device draws 10W, that’s the most it will draw…same with an EVSE. Again, power=volts*amps, but the amps is limited by the EVSE first off. Even if you have a 40A EVSE, the 50e won’t use more than about 31A, depending on the input voltage.

The included EVSE is configured to support the common plug-in socket, and that is NOT the maximum it can provide. Given the proper socket to plug into, and cable adapter, the FFC is capable of supporting 40A, but is not delivered that way. In the USA, it gets a 10A, 120vac cord that configures the EVSE. Elsewhere, it is often a 220-240vac input with the specific plug on the cord, and anywhere from about 8A and up, depending on the country. The idea is that you should be able to plug it into your common socket…if you want more, you need to replace the plug to match up with the higher powered supply. This also reprograms the EVSE to announce it has more amps available, whether the vehicle can use it or not. In the USA, with the optional power cord, the FFC announces it has 40A available, but still, the max the 50e can use is 7400W, or about 31A.

[Aussiejem]

So, if I have a 3 phase domestic outlet of 240v and 16A then the 50e will ve more than ok with this with its 7.4kw receiving capacity?

[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by Aussiejem

So, if I have a 3 phase domestic outlet of 240v and 16A then the 50e will ve more than ok with this with its 7.4kw receiving capacity?

240v * 16A = 3840w = 3.84kw

As long as you set the charger right so charger can communicate with the vehicle it's max power draw is 16A, it would be fine - car will be limited to 3.84kw charging speed though.

[eelnoraa]

For economy calculation, don’t forget to factor in charging lost. 240V (L2 in US) will lost 16%, remanding if you pull 10kWh of energy from plug, only 8.4kWh makes it into battery. This is already best case with most accommodating ambiance temperature.

Having that said, in Asian countries, I would guess EV will make economic sense. But in Singapore, such a small city, I am not sure x5 makes sense. It is considered huge car there. Porsche Macan is marketed as mid-size SUV there.

[Aussiejem]

Wow the 50e has a decent acceptance capacity then... if reading this right. 50% m9re of an AC 3 phase outlet here

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by aaaaaaaaaz

240v * 16A = 3840w = 3.84kw

As long as you set the charger right so charger can communicate with the vehicle it's max power draw is 16A, it would be fine - car will be limited to 3.84kw charging speed though.

you’re referencing the 45e. he’s referring to the 50e which has a 7.4kWh charger on board and capable of charging up to 32A

[Aussiejem]

Yep thanks.