[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

Please describe how the 50e can track ICE only miles.

The ONLY way I know of is to run in Sport for all miles until broken in. Thus why I recommended that mode.

I guarantee very few if any owner puts 1200 ICE miles on before full throttle application. Thus my at least 500 mile recommendation based on real world 99.9% usage.

But as always with any advice, use it or not.

again I ask: how can you recommend any amount of mileage if you can’t even tell the folks you’re recommending it to how to track them? like you mentioned before, if in Hybrid mode, those odometer miles could be all electric, so I agree with you that driving in Sport mode is the quickest way (that’s what I did), but one still needs to be able to see that ICE mileage. BTW i left plenty hints already, but I’ll let you figure it out

[jkramerXXX7]

Instead of switching to "sport mode" I've enabled "battery hold" to achieve the needed ICE miles. It seems to me that "battery hold" may be more fuel efficient than "sport" but not sure. I can track the miles on the BMW app or the trip data.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by jkramerXXX7

Instead of switching to "sport mode" I've enabled "battery hold" to achieve the needed ICE miles. It seems to me that "battery hold" may be more fuel efficient than "sport" but not sure. I can track the miles on the BMW app or the trip data.

TL; DR: you’ll use less fuel running the ICE for 1200 miles in Sport mode than in BH mode.

during those times in BH mode when the ICE is running the electric motor as a generator, it’s actually using more fuel than when the ICE is running in Sport mode. plus, break-in may take longer than driving in dedicated Sport because BH will utilize the electric motor when conditions allow.

put another way: it’s more fuel-efficient when the ICE is running in Sport mode than when the ICE is intermittently running to recharge the HV battery in BH mode. just because the ICE runs intermittently in BH mode, doesn’t mean it uses less fuel. mile for mile, it’s using more…and you need to cover 1200 of them

[DaveDBD]

The 50e manual has been updated to say during the 1200 mile breakin period to use Hybrid mode alternating between the combustion engine and electric motor.

Obviously ALTERNATING means that it is not 1200 miles solely on the combustion engine.

The C8 engine requires 500 miles before its full rpms are released. It seems reasonable to likewise do at least 500 miles combustion engine on the 50e prior to full throttle application after 1200 miles.

[Scientifix]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I don't remember seeing anyone post that they have tried it but I believe it is available in the US. Hopefully someone that has received theirs will chime in.

I saw this video recently that showcases this feature

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

The 50e manual has been updated to say during the 1200 mile breakin period to use Hybrid mode alternating between the combustion engine and electric motor.

Obviously ALTERNATING means that it is not 1200 miles solely on the combustion engine.

The C8 engine requires 500 miles before its full rpms are released. It seems reasonable to likewise do at least 500 miles combustion engine on the 50e prior to full throttle application after 1200 miles.

C8 as in Corvette? why are you recommending the break-in details for a different vehicle/engine/manufacturer when you’ve got guidance in the 50e’s own manual? please help us understand why you continue to apply tidbits of info that don’t apply to this vehicle…

i also saw the updated break-in late last night. it’s nice they’ve given better guidance

[jad03060]

Battery hold mode isn't less efficient than hybrid unless you engage it when it's below the setting...otherwise, it's just acting like the battery has a lower capacity. Now if it's say at 10% and you request it to be returned to 100%, absolutely, it will be less efficient as the EV motor will be working hard as a generator to supply the needed power for the recharge.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Battery hold mode isn't less efficient than hybrid unless you engage it when it's below the setting...otherwise, it's just acting like the battery has a lower capacity. Now if it's say at 10% and you request it to be returned to 100%, absolutely, it will be less efficient as the EV motor will be working hard as a generator to supply the needed power for the recharge.

you’re confusing 50e Battery Hold with 45e Battery Control. there is no going “below the setting” in BH like one can in BC (30-100%); once BH is activated, it holds that charge level and doesn’t actively charge up to 100% (I guess one could if it’s activated early on with a nearly full battery).

[jad03060]

Regardless, activating the hold or control (depending on the model) isn't any different than what happens when you run the battery down to zero. With battery control, it can be a lot less efficient if you're trying to recharge back up to your set point, but when it is already at it's charge level, it's like running around with zero charge...the battery level will still waffle around a bit as regeneration occurs, or you need a little boost.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Regardless, activating the hold or control (depending on the model) isn't any different than what happens when you run the battery down to zero. With battery control, it can be a lot less efficient if you're trying to recharge back up to your set point, but when it is already at it's charge level, it's like running around with zero charge...the battery level will still waffle around a bit as regeneration occurs, or you need a little boost.

you’re missing the point.

comparative fuel inefficiency when “below the setting” and charging back up to a target level don’t help 50e owners because those scenarios don’t apply

let’s stick with BH as it applies to the 50e for consistency’s sake. JKramer postulates it’s more fuel-efficient to break-in the ICE on his 50e by activating BH than by driving in Sport mode. I disagree

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

let’s stick with BH as it applies to the 50e for consistency’s sake. JKramer postulates it’s more fuel-efficient to break-in the ICE on his 50e by activating BH than by driving in Sport mode. I disagree

You have to forgive me if I'm misunderstanding the situation since I don't follow the PHEV's nearly as closely as you guys but this is how I understand it. With BH activated it will continue to charge the battery when needed to keep the SOC at the level it was activated versus Sport mode where the battery will only be charged when it falls below the minimum threshold. Obviously the way you drive, throttle response, shift points, etc will have some effect but it would seem like Sport mode will be more efficient since it doesn't have the charging penalty until the battery needs to be charged in order to keep the minimum charge.

[DaveDBD]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

C8 as in Corvette? why are you recommending the break-in details for a different vehicle/engine/manufacturer when you’ve got guidance in the 50e’s own manual? please help us understand why you continue to apply tidbits of info that don’t apply to this vehicle…

i also saw the updated break-in late last night. it’s nice they’ve given better guidance

But it does apply.

BMW now says 1200 miles in Hybrid mode before full throttle which could be only a few hundred miles with ICE. Anyone who knows how to breakin an engine knows that is insufficient. Taking info about a high powered engine like the C8 that prevents high rpms until over 500 miles and applying it to the 50e is reasonable.

So again to be clear, breakin of 1200 miles total with at least 500 miles on ICE meets BMW’s requirements and should also provide adequate ICE breakin for long life.

You as an owner can of course do just Hybrid mode with fewer ICE miles if that makes you happy.

Also finally found where total miles and electric miles are: Under Live Vehicle / Trip Data since factory.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

You have to forgive me if I'm misunderstanding the situation since I don't follow the PHEV's nearly as closely as you guys but this is how I understand it. With BH activated it will continue to charge the battery when needed to keep the SOC at the level it was activated versus Sport mode where the battery will only be charged when it falls below the minimum threshold. Obviously the way you drive, throttle response, shift points, etc will have some effect but it would seem like Sport mode will be more efficient since it doesn't have the charging penalty until the battery needs to be charged in order to keep the minimum charge.

that’s my take on it as well. I think JKramer’s thinking is that BH would be more fuel-efficient than Sport because the ICE may not be running all the time. in that sense, yes, he’s not using fuel as fast, but he’s also having to wait longer to break in the ICE because of alternating between ICE and electric.

to me, the speed at which fuel is consumed doesn’t mean the same as efficiency which is the descriptive he used. Sport mode’s use of fuel when running the ICE is more efficient then BH mode’s use of fuel when running the ICE to recharge the battery

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

But it does apply.

BMW now says 1200 miles in Hybrid mode before full throttle which could be only a few hundred miles with ICE. Anyone who knows how to breakin an engine knows that is insufficient. Taking info about a high powered engine like the C8 that prevents high rpms until over 500 miles and applying it to the 50e is reasonable.

So again to be clear, breakin of 1200 miles total with at least 500 miles on ICE meets BMW’s requirements and should provide adequate ICE breakin for long life.

You as an owner can of course do just Hybrid mode with fewer ICE miles if that makes you happy.

you’re arguing the wrong point. I will concede now that Hybrid mode can be used for 1200 miles for the purposes of breaking in given the updated guidance in the 50e manual

the issue I have is that you continue to recommend to 50e owners the break-in mileage for a Corvette. that is what continues to baffle me. the manual states 1200 miles, not 500 miles. you may feel it’s “reasonable” but it’s not recommended, so I deem that ill advice

[DaveDBD]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

you’re arguing the wrong point. I will concede now that Hybrid mode can be used for 1200 miles for the purposes of breaking in given the updated guidance in the 50e manual

the issue I have is that you continue to recommend to 50e owners the break-in mileage for a Corvette. that is what continues to baffle me. the manual states 1200 miles, not 500 miles. you may feel it’s “reasonable” but it’s not recommended, so I deem that ill advice

Do you even read what I write or just keep responding blindly?

I DO NOT SAY 500 MILE BREAKIN!!!!

1200 miles with at least 500 miles ICE.

Is this hard to comprehend????

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

Do you even read what I write or just keep responding blindly?

I DO NOT SAY 500 MILE BREAKIN!!!!

1200 miles with at least 500 miles ICE.

Is this hard to comprehend????

I think maybe you are missing his question. I think he is asking why you choose 500 miles and think that it pertains to the 50e.

[SwissBeemer]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

1200 miles with at least 500 miles ICE.

I think the question is where you get this "at least 500 miles ICE" recommendation from.

Personally I think it's very odd that BMW recommends a break-in of 1200 miles without specifying how many miles of ICE that should be because it could be anything really.

So far the first oil change, which completed the break-in, on ICE BMW's was 2.000km/1.200m. The B58 of the 40i has the same recommendation and this engine is also fitted with the 50e, just with a bit less power.

Therefore I'll personally consider the engine "broken in" after 2.000km and an oil change, just like it used to be with any other BMW ICE. It will probably take some time to reach it since 90% of my usage is below the EV range but we'll be collecting ICE distance when going on vacation in summer and I don't see the point of breaking it in as quickly as possible since I don't need the full power 99% of the time anyways.

[DaveDBD]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I think maybe you are missing his question. I think he is asking why you choose 500 miles and think that it pertains to the 50e.

And I have answered this point.

The new Hybrid mode 1200 mile breakin could be near zero ICE miles depending on driving situation.

If even a C8 engine is okay after 500 miles of operation, then isn’t it better to have at least 500 miles ICE out of 1200 total rather than potentially far fewer?

Of course it is.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

And I have answered this point.

The new Hybrid mode 1200 mile breakin could be near zero ICE miles depending on driving situation.

If even a C8 engine is okay after 500 miles of operation, then isn’t it better to have at least 500 miles ICE out of 1200 total rather than potentially far fewer?

Of course it is.

Having more or fewer is not the point. Using 500 to begin with is where the question lies. The C8 has no bearing on the situation. Probably best to just end the discussion since it isn't being fruitful to anyone.

The only item we know for sure is that the break-in period is 1,200 miles and it is recommended to be run in Hybrid mode. Anything more than that is just speculation.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by SwissBeemer

I think the question is where you get this "at least 500 miles ICE" recommendation from.

Personally I think it's very odd that BMW recommends a break-in of 1200 miles without specifying how many miles of ICE that should be because it could be anything really.

So far the first oil change, which completed the break-in, on ICE BMW's was 2.000km/1.200m. The B58 of the 40i has the same recommendation and this engine is also fitted with the 50e, just with a bit less power.

Therefore I'll personally consider the engine "broken in" after 2.000km and an oil change, just like it used to be with any other BMW ICE. It will probably take some time to reach it since 90% of my usage is below the EV range but we'll be collecting ICE distance when going on vacation in summer and I don't see the point of breaking it in as quickly as possible since I don't need the full power 99% of the time anyways.

clarification: oil change after 1200-mile break-in is required only for ///M vehicles, such as the X5M. the X5 40i, 45e, and 50e (whether xLine or M Sport) are not recommended an oil change after break-in, at least not in the U.S. if the owner insists, it’s an out-of-pocket expense (not covered under warranty or new-vehicle maintenance plan)

curious if it’s different there in Switzerland?

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

And I have answered this point.

The new Hybrid mode 1200 mile breakin could be near zero ICE miles depending on driving situation.

If even a C8 engine is okay after 500 miles of operation, then isn’t it better to have at least 500 miles ICE out of 1200 total rather than potentially far fewer?

Of course it is.

500 ICE break-in miles is fine… for the Corvette, and while a purposeful 500 ICE miles is better than nothing towards the total 1200-mile break-in, applying it to the 50e isn’t valid whatsoever, however “reasonable” you may feel

and that is essentially what it is: a feeling. there is no shred of proof that what you suggest fulfills the BMW engineers definition of break-in for this vehicle.

the Corvette is a different vehicle from a different manufacturer with a different engine and different technologies. so if 500 miles is good for the Corvette, then that makes it good for the 50e?! why not the Porsche or Range Rover or Lexus? your deduction is…

[DaveDBD]

Ok fine. I take it all back. Go 1200 miles in Hybrid mode totally using only electric and then apply full acceleration on the engine as this meets BMW’s requirements.

Anyone with sense will have at least 500 miles ICE usage before doing so.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shoppin...%20components.

BTW your posts 1-2 years ago that 1200 miles was of course ICE is now in writing by BMW incorrect. I suggest you go find them all and correct your assumed responses.