[gadgetfreak2024]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

same reason we didn’t go for an all-electric SAV… range anxiety. our road trips go far beyond its electric range. this a deal-breaker for us. while we currently have two PHEV (sedan and SAV), we plan to replace the sedan with an all-electric which stays local. all road trips will be in our SAV with gasoline as its main means of propulsion

This is our plan as well. When our 2011 X5 finally calls it a day -- and as my child gets her license we really need a reliable second car -- we'll likely go pure EV for that vehicle. We already have added the two load-sharing L2 chargers in our home to be prepared for that situation.

[modesa]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

you need to press further past the resistance point. just be ready for the jolt…

the end of the blue area on the power meter isn’t the ‘top limit’ of EV power if that’s what you thought. it will shift anywhere between 0-40% depending on the HV battery SoC and some other factors.

OK I just went for another drive and I found the detente, it's...a lot further down than I thought. It's also a bit annoying because once you hit it you boot yourself out of EV mode and into hybrid mode, and have to manually set yourself back to EV mode if that's what you want.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by modesa

OK I just went for another drive and I found the detente, it's...a lot further down than I thought. It's also a bit annoying because once you hit it you boot yourself out of EV mode and into hybrid mode, and have to manually set yourself back to EV mode if that's what you want.

TL;DR: you’re not utilizing the correct drive mode for your style or driving situation (explanation below)

think about its intent through context, though. you’re cruising along in Electric mode but floor it to activate the ICE which is going to be in high-revs because, well, you’ve floored the pedal. it’s meant to be used in emergency-type situations, so why would the vehicle go back to Electric mode? you’ve just activated the ICE aggressively to get you out of a pickle in the first place.

it sounds like Hybrid or Adaptive modes suit your style and driving situations better. keep it controlled and you’ll drive under electric power (needle in blue area), but push the pedal a little more and you’ve activated the ICE (needle in white area). it’s a much less aggressive activation of/transition to the ICE, and will return to electric power when the situation warrants. that’s the beauty of a hybrid!

when you drive in Electric mode, you’re telling the vehicle to prioritize electric power, so it’s programmed not to activate the ICE unless you really need it (e.g., emergency!) which is why you have press the pedal hard. this shows you really need that B58 horsepower.

I commute in Electric mode mostly. very rare do I find myself in a situation I need to floor it to activate the ICE. if I did, then Electric mode wouldn’t be the correct mode to commute in (which is what I alluded to above re: you). if I need to activate the ICE while in Electric mode, I don’t floor the pedal. I tap the steering wheel shift paddle. this puts the vehicle in Hybrid mode, activates the ICE in the appropriate gear relative to my pedal position (which isn’t floored), and after a few seconds of doing my non-emergent maneuver (e.g., passing a vehicle), it automatically returns to Electric mode. try it!

further, you’re making an active decision to activate the ICE whether you floor the pedal or use the shift paddle, so now I’ve shown you have a choice. personally, flooring the pedal is too aggressive for the non-emergent maneuvers I need more power than the electric motor can provide, which is why I use the shift paddle. flooring it is reserved for true emergencies

[modesa]

huh. Well TIL I guess. I'll give it a try today, thanks.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

You guys are over thinking it by a large margin. Think about it, what is the situation? If you are in EV mode, then certain driving situations demand 400hp, how long is that? Chances are you need ice on for a short burst. Once ice is on, you get much more power than you need, then you back off the throttle within 1-2s. It isn’t going to cause much significant wear.

The worst wear is the 1-2 seconds where the cold ICE goes from 0-5k RPMs.

Now if you are in EV mode, then suddenly decide to do 1/4 mile drag races, the sure it isn’t great.

Originally Posted by SwissBeemer

That's not entirely true. Your car will limit the ICE power when it comes on for the first something like 30 seconds, depending on conditions, to keep the ICE from delivering full power when completely cold. So it seems the engineers at BMW considered your concerns.

This is the first I've ever heard that. Got a cite of any kind on that?

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

The worst wear is the 1-2 seconds where the cold ICE goes from 0-5k RPMs.

Now if you are in EV mode, then suddenly decide to do 1/4 mile drag races, the sure it isn’t great.



This is the first I've ever heard that. Got a cite of any kind on that?

It depends on context. For daily driving, I don't disagree, it isn't good, but all the car we have had so far, see this usage. This 1-2s 0-5km cold engine wear will not kill you engine. You engine will still last 20 years with this kind of wear.

Now, if you do cold engine 1/4 drag, this is paddle to metal, redline 1st - 3rd gears for 15s, keep this up, you engine won't last 10k. It is the total exposure to this harsh condition that is the issue.

[RetSurfer]

I make a left turn on a busy 5 lane highway each morning to get to work, middle lane is for turning. I need to get to the far-right lane to turn about a half mile ahead.
I’m coming from a 2017 Jeep Hemi where I never had an issue.
I’ve had my 50e since late April and drive in Hybrid. Only one time I can remember ICE came on. I’m very happy with the pick-up from the electric power from my 50e, more than enough…

[jad03060]

The first 5 vehicles I owned through the years all had less than 140Hp...my PHEV has plenty of power for most any rational situation. It's a matter of understanding the situation and knowing your vehicle. You don't have to be 'first' across the finish line unless you're in a competition...the prize in normal driving is getting where you're going without issues. Stress is not good for your health or longevity.

[aaaaaaaaaz]

There is definitely some valid concern over cold engine asked to delivering power when EV can't handle power demanded; however there are several mitigations
- detuned/modified ECU programming,
- thinner oil (0w-12) that handles cold starts very well compared to traditional 0w-40,30,20 for ICE cars
- lower engine load (since EV is helping)
- for the same oil change cycle (10k mile / 1yo) the engine is used much less than regular ICE cars

Since 45e is already BMW's gen 4 hybrid system (Idk what bmw calls 50e, maybe gen4.5 or 5?) I am pretty confident these mitigation are enough to address those concerns.

[jad03060]

The 45e was available two years earlier outside of the USA, so BMW has lots of history with the configuration, so one would expect they could detect a pattern if things were going to fail early. Keep in mind that that includes places like Germany, where getting onto say the Autobahn might necessitate a bit more acceleration than may be typical in the US where road speeds are generally much more sedate, at least legally!

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The first 5 vehicles I owned through the years all had less than 140Hp...my PHEV has plenty of power for most any rational situation. It's a matter of understanding the situation and knowing your vehicle. You don't have to be 'first' across the finish line unless you're in a competition...the prize in normal driving is getting where you're going without issues. Stress is not good for your health or longevity.

So anyone who has more power than you do is not rational?
Not sure I get the point of your sermon.

[jad03060]

Originally Posted by cobramite

So anyone who has more power than you do is not rational?
Not sure I get the point of your sermon.

Not that at all! The point being that you can keep up with traffic and merge and drive safely with much less power than a typical BMW has. Yes, having more power can be fun, but it is very seldom 'necessary'.

IMHO, in the vast majority of times, other than making you feel good, shooting into the lead or a space is more fun than necessary. FWIW, while seldom followed in the USA, the laws in many places give the merging traffic the right of way. In Germany, it is the norm. Only on shorter acceleration ramps do you actually see a yield sign in the USA. Instead of those in the travel lane rushing ahead to close the space, by law, they are supposed to yield to those entering. If people did that, it would make the whole thing smoother and with less drama. Studies have also shown that those that don't keep a steady speed, and often slow down going uphill can have backup issues up to five miles behind them on a heavily traveled road. The roadways are a shared asset, treat people with respect, and things work out better for everyone. One thing I really appreciated when living in Germany was the relative skill of the average driver. To get a license there, at least when I was there, required a good knowledge of the rules, and a demonstration that you understood them from an instructor prior to you even getting a license. The knowledge and road tests in the USA are a joke. You had to get almost a perfect score on the much more comprehensive written test, and prove to an instructor that you knew how to drive not only at slow speeds, but how to merge onto a highway properly and safely. It showed out on the roads IF you also followed those rules. How many people do you see that fail to use their signals, or follow too closely, or cut people off? You don't or didn't see that sort of thing when I lived in Germany, except maybe in the summer when there were lots more tourists on the roads.

[cobramite]

^^^^^^Some of what you mention is what we call aggressive driving which has become profoundly dangerous in many areas and certainly here in S FL. The fart can crowd in their worn out asian tin cans are the absolute worst and can often be seen cutting across 4 lanes of highway traffic at once and then right back while at 95 mph. We see this all day every day. Total disrespect for anyone else on the road that in many cases is at a level of criminal behavior that does result in horrific crashes and death.
I find that drivers of late model Porsche and BMWs are much less likely to display this dangerous idiotic behior while the Asian car crowd of any age or brand is by far the worst.
Much of this anger based stupidity is displaced aggression fueled by the incredibly polarized society we live in.

[RetSurfer]

I chalk it up to people lacking courtesy…

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by RetSurfer

I chalk it up to people lacking courtesy…

It starts there and becomes a power of ten worse when many of these pencil necks feel insulated with in the protective bubble of their vehicle.

[jad03060]

What I found in Germany (now this was decades ago!) was that someone traveling over 100mph would get back in the right lane after passing someone. Part of that was because someone might be coming up behind him at 150mph, but also because that was the law. You did not see someone parking in the passing lane, regardless of their speed.

But, come to a merge, and the vehicles would reliably 'zipper' into the lane without some jerk crowding the bumper of the guy ahead, or speeding up to close the gap. That actually is the law in many states in the USA, but you'd be hard pressed to see few any abide by it. Lots of traffic circles, and people properly merge there too. On many side streets, at cross-roads, there are often no stop or yield signs...you are expected to know and abide by the right-of-way laws.

Some of this in the USA is that few places have decent public transportation so to get somewhere, you must drive. Then, the roadways have not kept up with the traffic volume, nor has the maintenance been done to keep what's there functioning at its best. As I said, both the skills and knowledge required to get a driver's license in the USA is mostly a joke...it's much more serious and comprehensive in Germany.

[bbari]

Originally Posted by 915M

Most of time, unless you drive it aggressively, hybrid mode stays in electric motor only. ICE will be triggered on with more than 50% of throttle(as on dash).
.

Does this mean the ICE is triggered when you are on 65KM/h i.e. half of the 130KM/h which is the speed supported by the electric motor?

[915M]

Originally Posted by bbari

Does this mean the ICE is triggered when you are on 65KM/h i.e. half of the 130KM/h which is the speed supported by the electric motor?

No. It goes by power/throttle that you like to go with.
In electric mode maximum is around 60-70%.
In hybrid mode, maximum is around 50%
In Battery hold mode, it is either 25% or 12.5% depends on occasion.

Look at the right side gauge on the dash.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by 915M

No. It goes by power/throttle that you like to go with.
In electric mode maximum is around 60-70%.
In hybrid mode, maximum is around 50%
In Battery hold mode, it is either 25% or 12.5% depends on occasion.

Look at the right side gauge on the dash.

Are you sure? In EV mode, the detent is what activate ICE. Right before that, 100% throttle input, ICE won't kick in.

None of this matches my personal experience, I have 45e.

[FredBa]

Originally Posted by mobsync

How difficult would it be to make a iX 50ice or the opposite of a 50e? Have the torque and range of the iX with a small ICE (200hp or so) and small gas tank as backup.

I would love an EV with a generator powerful enough that it extends range indefinitely up to a reasonable cruising speed (e.g. 80mph), as long as it has fuel.
A tiny engine with a ZF hybrid tranny doesn’t make much sense.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by alanzyy

There is definitely some valid concern over cold engine asked to delivering power when EV can't handle power demanded; however there are several mitigations
- detuned/modified ECU programming,
- thinner oil (0w-12) that handles cold starts very well compared to traditional 0w-40,30,20 for ICE cars
- lower engine load (since EV is helping)
- for the same oil change cycle (10k mile / 1yo) the engine is used much less than regular ICE cars

Since 45e is already BMW's gen 4 hybrid system (Idk what bmw calls 50e, maybe gen4.5 or 5?) I am pretty confident these mitigation are enough to address those concerns.

Keep in mind, the cold start issue here is related to "dry" engine components. Most of these don't address that.

BTW, 0w20 has the same viscosity as 0w40 at cold temp, what that 0 means.

[915M]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Are you sure? In EV mode, the detent is what activate ICE. Right before that, 100% throttle input, ICE won't kick in.

None of this matches my personal experience, I have 45e.

I was trying to put available electric power shown on the power guage.

On the electric mode, available electric power shown on the gauge is 60-70% but I am not sure I have pressed the gas pedal beyond that point. It never turned on me so far.

On hybrid and battery hold mode, yes it is.