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      02-16-2020, 08:44 PM   #1431
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I custom ordered my X6 in January and will be picking it up via PCD in early March. I’ll be headed to the dealer this week to finalize the paperwork and looking for a breakdown of all the current incentives/rebates for financing (not leasing). What’s changed since January?

I qualify for loyalty, conquest, and BMWCCA. I don”t think I can do loyalty and conquest, but would be nice. It appears there’s a rebate for financing through BMWFS. Can anyone confirm?
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      02-16-2020, 09:35 PM   #1432
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Originally Posted by TAL2GK View Post
I custom ordered my X6 in January and will be picking it up via PCD in early March. I’ll be headed to the dealer this week to finalize the paperwork and looking for a breakdown of all the current incentives/rebates for financing (not leasing). What’s changed since January?

I qualify for loyalty, conquest, and BMWCCA. I don”t think I can do loyalty and conquest, but would be nice. It appears there’s a rebate for financing through BMWFS. Can anyone confirm?
There is always a financing rebate. You simply have to finance at least $7500 with BMWFS to get that rebate, for the X5 it's $2K but you can lookup X6's amount which I suspect would be similar.

You don't need to mention CCA to dealer. That's a rebate you do after you take delivery of your car. You cannot stack loyalty and conquest... They are opposites of the same coin.
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      02-17-2020, 08:45 AM   #1433
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Originally Posted by karateboi87 View Post
You cannot stack loyalty and conquest... They are opposites of the same coin.
Worth a shot. I am both sides of that coin. I own a BMW and a Porsche.
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      02-17-2020, 07:45 PM   #1434
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Follow up on my visit today to finalize paperwork with dealer. I had negotiated a deal based on percent off MSRP and had specific numbers with the understanding that I’d qualify for whatever rebates/incentives are in place at the time of delivery.

Today they tell me that the $2,000 BMWFS rebate was already included in the original discount. I call BS but they swear left and right that any dealer would include this rebate in their negotiated deal because that $2,000 is paid to the dealer on a cash deal or on a financed vehicle.

Someone either confirm their story or back me up here. I received a quote from a competing dealer that supposedly didn’t include and rebates, so I should've Received an extra $2k off their quoted rate.
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      02-17-2020, 07:51 PM   #1435
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Until last week I would have said they are blowing smoke but my brother just bought an X5 and his dealer included the $2k rebate in the pricing until he asked that everything be separated out.
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      02-17-2020, 08:55 PM   #1436
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Dealers routinely do this to make it look like you're getting a great deal. You have to proactively specify that the X% off MSRP they quote you be pre-incentive.

They pulled the same shenanigans on my brother-in-law when he leased his X7 recently and unfortunately he fell for it and signed thinking he got a pretty good discount.
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      02-17-2020, 09:30 PM   #1437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAL2GK View Post
Follow up on my visit today to finalize paperwork with dealer. I had negotiated a deal based on percent off MSRP and had specific numbers with the understanding that I’d qualify for whatever rebates/incentives are in place at the time of delivery.

Today they tell me that the $2,000 BMWFS rebate was already included in the original discount. I call BS but they swear left and right that any dealer would include this rebate in their negotiated deal because that $2,000 is paid to the dealer on a cash deal or on a financed vehicle.

Someone either confirm their story or back me up here. I received a quote from a competing dealer that supposedly didn’t include and rebates, so I should've Received an extra $2k off their quoted rate.
That's just total BS. The difference between a rebate and discount will be VERY clear on the final bill of sales. You are taxed on the "sales price" which is MSRP minus discount. Any rebate is applied to the post tax amount. It's impossible for them to include the rebate into the "sales price". In other words, you still pay taxes on the rebate amounts.
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      02-17-2020, 09:44 PM   #1438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karateboi87 View Post
That's just total BS. The difference between a rebate and discount will be VERY clear on the final bill of sales. You are taxed on the "sales price" which is MSRP minus discount. Any rebate is applied to the post tax amount. It's impossible for them to include the rebate into the "sales price". In other words, you still pay taxes on the rebate amounts.
It is interesting you mentioned that since my brother and I were just talking about it. He was reviewing his paperwork and even though the description of the sales tax lines says it is based on the selling price, the tax amount shown is calculated on the selling price minus the rebate. Not sure if maybe PA yes it that way or they just screwed up.
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      02-17-2020, 10:53 PM   #1439
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Originally Posted by karateboi87 View Post
That's just total BS. The difference between a rebate and discount will be VERY clear on the final bill of sales. You are taxed on the "sales price" which is MSRP minus discount. Any rebate is applied to the post tax amount. It's impossible for them to include the rebate into the "sales price". In other words, you still pay taxes on the rebate amounts.
Yeah, they’re claiming BMW gives them $2,000 in trunk money if I dont finance or $2,000 to me in rebate if I do finance. Also said I only get loyalty money if I finance.
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      02-17-2020, 10:59 PM   #1440
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Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
It is interesting you mentioned that since my brother and I were just talking about it. He was reviewing his paperwork and even though the description of the sales tax lines says it is based on the selling price, the tax amount shown is calculated on the selling price minus the rebate. Not sure if maybe PA yes it that way or they just screwed up.
Nope that is correct. Think about your mail in rebates back in the day from Best Buy, you would pay tax on the full amount, then the manufacturer cuts you a check for whatever rebate amount. You don't get to forgo the tax on the rebate amount from the purchase.

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Originally Posted by TAL2GK View Post
Yeah, they’re claiming BMW gives them $2,000 in trunk money if I dont finance or $2,000 to me in rebate if I do finance. Also said I only get loyalty money if I finance.
Not following. They said you get $2K for financing, but you only get $1250 loyalty?
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      02-17-2020, 11:36 PM   #1441
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Originally Posted by karateboi87 View Post
Nope that is correct. Think about your mail in rebates back in the day from Best Buy, you would pay tax on the full amount, then the manufacturer cuts you a check for whatever rebate amount. You don't get to forgo the tax on the rebate amount from the purchase.
No, it can't be correct since the description and the calculated amount are not the same. I know the tax should be on the selling price like the description on the line says but the calculated tax amount shown is based on the selling price minus the rebate.

Edit: Here is what the sheet says:

Cash delivered price of unit sold: 61,550
Rebate: 2,750
Sub-Total: 58,800
Local taxes (if any) 6% of 61,550.00: 3,528

The description shows what I, him, and you, say the calculation should be but 3,528 is 6% of the 58,800. I think they screwed up in the calculation and used the wrong amount.

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      02-18-2020, 02:10 AM   #1442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAL2GK View Post
Follow up on my visit today to finalize paperwork with dealer. I had negotiated a deal based on percent off MSRP and had specific numbers with the understanding that I'd qualify for whatever rebates/incentives are in place at the time of delivery.

Today they tell me that the $2,000 BMWFS rebate was already included in the original discount. I call BS but they swear left and right that any dealer would include this rebate in their negotiated deal because that $2,000 is paid to the dealer on a cash deal or on a financed vehicle.

Someone either confirm their story or back me up here. I received a quote from a competing dealer that supposedly didn't include and rebates, so I should've Received an extra $2k off their quoted rate.
Isn't the $2,000 an "APR Credit"(i.e., if you finance the transaction)? How would that be included on a pure cash deal? I call BS.
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      02-18-2020, 08:49 AM   #1443
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Your dealer is blowing smoke.

Here is the most absolute simple break down of how the pricing SHOULD work. I'll use round made up numbers to keep things simple.

MSRP: $70,000
Negotiated discount: $7,000 (10%)
Selling price of car: $63,000

Loyalty discount: $1250 (if you have or had a bmw in the past 12 months)
Conquest discount: $750 (if you don't have a bmw but came from a competitor)
Finance discount: $2000 (if you finance with BMW FS, min finance $7500)

If you qualify for loyalty and you are financing, your total incentives will be $3250

FINAL price $63,000-$3250= $59750

Then you need to add on tax (tax assessed at selling price, $63,000) title, registration and dealer fees which is different for everyone.

Last edited by bodybybalco86; 02-18-2020 at 08:59 AM..
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      02-18-2020, 08:50 AM   #1444
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Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
No, it can't be correct since the description and the calculated amount are not the same. I know the tax should be on the selling price like the description on the line says but the calculated tax amount shown is based on the selling price minus the rebate.

Edit: Here is what the sheet says:

Cash delivered price of unit sold: 61,550
Rebate: 2,750
Sub-Total: 58,800
Local taxes (if any) 6% of 61,550.00: 3,528

The description shows what I, him, and you, say the calculation should be but 3,528 is 6% of the 58,800. I think they screwed up in the calculation and used the wrong amount.
They did and your brother will owe taxes.

I'm actually in the same boat. The finance manager insists his rate is correct (around 6%) but I know for a fact Illinois will be over 7%. He claims his software uses latest data. I'm expecting a state IRS letter asking for the difference. If there is any other penalty I'm sending that to the dealership
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      02-18-2020, 09:25 AM   #1445
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They did and your brother will owe taxes.

I'm actually in the same boat. The finance manager insists his rate is correct (around 6%) but I know for a fact Illinois will be over 7%. He claims his software uses latest data. I'm expecting a state IRS letter asking for the difference. If there is any other penalty I'm sending that to the dealership
Turns out PA is one of the states that doesn't tax the rebates and it was the line description that was wrong.
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      02-18-2020, 09:36 AM   #1446
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Turns out PA is one of the states that doesn't tax the rebates and it was the line description that was wrong.
Ah, PA is an exception. Makes sense. Lucky for you guys!
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      02-18-2020, 09:41 AM   #1447
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Ah, PA is an exception. Makes sense. Lucky for you guys!
Not me, moved to CO 30 years ago and while we have fairly low sales taxes we have pretty high yearly registration fees.
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      02-18-2020, 06:32 PM   #1448
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Hey everyone, a little help here. Getting 10% off MSRP. Rebate is loyalty as i was told there is no lease credit in my region.

MF is 0.00142

Thoughts?
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      02-18-2020, 06:50 PM   #1449
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Hey everyone, a little help here. Getting 10% off MSRP. Rebate is loyalty as i was told there is no lease credit in my region.

MF is 0.00142

Thoughts?
First things first, are they using that specific stock number/VIN as a placeholder just to work up a deal for you? Because that stock/VIN does not have an MSRP of $77,695 (it's $72,020). Assuming they're just using that so the software can generate the numbers for them, and that the correct MSRP for the car you're actually interested in is $77,695, then that takes care of that.

As far as the deal is concerned, I'm not sure what the sales tax is in Virginia for leases (is it 4.3% or 8.5%?), but assuming it was 8.5%, your deal structure looks fine to me. You're getting 10% off before incentives and the numbers add up when you plug it all in. With $5k total driveoff, for example, my calculator spits out exactly $868/month (assuming 8.5% tax). If, on the other hand, your sales tax is closer to the 4%, then your payment should be about $30 less. I'm making lots of assumptions though so perhaps you can shed some light on some the missing blanks so we can assist further!
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      02-18-2020, 07:39 PM   #1450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzbra View Post
First things first, are they using that specific stock number/VIN as a placeholder just to work up a deal for you? Because that stock/VIN does not have an MSRP of $77,695 (it's $72,020). Assuming they're just using that so the software can generate the numbers for them, and that the correct MSRP for the car you're actually interested in is $77,695, then that takes care of that.

As far as the deal is concerned, I'm not sure what the sales tax is in Virginia for leases (is it 4.3% or 8.5%?), but assuming it was 8.5%, your deal structure looks fine to me. You're getting 10% off before incentives and the numbers add up when you plug it all in. With $5k total driveoff, for example, my calculator spits out exactly $868/month (assuming 8.5% tax). If, on the other hand, your sales tax is closer to the 4%, then your payment should be about $30 less. I'm making lots of assumptions though so perhaps you can shed some light on some the missing blanks so we can assist further!
Yes, that was a random VIN to create it for me. Sales tax is 5.3%
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      02-18-2020, 07:51 PM   #1451
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Virginia has a 4.15% sales and use tax on vehicles. For leases it must be paid upfront (although it can be rolled into the lease) on the selling price of the vehicle rather than on the monthly payments or sum of monthly payments.

Edit: Correction, the taxable amount is the selling price + the dealer processing fee minus any rebates. For the dealer mentioned above that would be (69,925 + 579 - 1,250) * .0415 = $2,874.04.
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Last edited by TurtleBoy; 02-18-2020 at 08:02 PM..
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      02-18-2020, 08:22 PM   #1452
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Virginia has a 4.15% sales and use tax on vehicles. For leases it must be paid upfront (although it can be rolled into the lease) on the selling price of the vehicle rather than on the monthly payments or sum of monthly payments.

Edit: Correction, the taxable amount is the selling price + the dealer processing fee minus any rebates. For the dealer mentioned above that would be (69,925 + 579 - 1,250) * .0415 = $2,874.04.
Okay that makes perfect sense. In this scenario, it sounds like the dealer is applying it up front. So, for example, the $5k driveoff scenario would consist of $2,874 sales tax + $579 processing fee + $75 tag/title + $868 first month's payment + $954 cap cost reduction + $900 acquisition fee (less the $1,250 rebate).

Basically, you are in fact getting 10% off before incentives, which is a great discount as you'll notice from other members here on the forum. You likely have room to squeeze maybe an additional 1%, but won't be surprised if the dealer does not budge. Also keep in mind the CCA post-purchase rebate (if you signed up to be a member before 1/1/2020). Good luck!
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