[eelnoraa]

I would say at least ask what it take to use copper. You can prep a little by looking at Al vs Cu cost difference at Home Depot or Lowe, and see if what the incremental charge make sense.

My very personal tske is this. Current NEC code isn’t really setup with EV charging in mind. This usage is kind of new, like drawing 40A continuously for a many hours. Not to say NEC isn’t safe enough, because NEC has tons of build in margin. As TurtleBoy said, when use Al wire properly, it should be safe. My comment is more based in the cost difference vs total cost of project. If it is small portion, I personally will go with Cu. But say if the cost increase is 50%, then I may stay with Al.

Btw, pulsar wall box is a good choice.

And I am with krypttic as well, start to think about where you want evse to be in my garage. It will likely dictated by how you park inside. But do decide that instead of let electrician decide for you.

[krypttic]

Originally Posted by Shellman19

jad03060 , krypttic , eelnoraa
First and foremost, thank you to those who have chimed in on my situation... REALLY appreciate your insights! I do have a follow up question.
A couple more details of my situation:
I am contracted with a 3rd party company called "Treehouse" that is affiliated with BMW as their "preferred" EVSE installer who then has a subcontracted electrician who is actually doing the install. My contract with Treehouse (and therefore with the electrcian) states the following:
Hardwire EV Charger Installation
• Install one 240V 50A dedicated circuit with a Pulsar Plus 40A according to OEM, State, Local & NEC Article 625 EVSE installation requirements.
• This circuit and charger will provide up to 40.0 continuous amps for charging.
• Install locking brackets, bolts, lag screws, gaskets, seals, fasteners, bushings, washers and connectors.
• Where necessary, surface-mounted conduit will be used to route the circuit from the panel to the final charger location."
EV Charger Installation
• 2pl 50A breaker
​• < 5' THHN (copper) wire gauge (AWG) based on charging circuit size: 30A #10, 40A #8, 50A #8, 60A #6, 80A #4
​• < 5' - 3/4"" EMT conduit
​• NEMA 14-50 industrial-grade receptacle (if required)
​• Fittings to mount and set up the EVSE or NEMA 14-50 Outlet
Additional Wiring
• Additional THHN wiring and 3/4" EMT conduit to run circuit from panel to charger location.
​• Wire gauge (AWG) depends on charging circuit size: 30A #10, 40A #8, 50A #6, 60A #6, 80A #4.

I'm sorry I know that is a lot of reading but just wanted to give you all the specs of my install as per the contract.
So my question is this... from what I have read from you guys, there appears to be concern about my electrician's plan to use aluminum wiring. Does the language in my contract above indicate that he by contract should be using all cooper and he is trying to save himself some money by using aluminum OR does my contract leave him wiggle room to chose aluminum at his discretion? Basically, I am trying to figure out if I am going to have to go to battle to get all copper wiring or if my contract already calls for all cooper and I can basically tell him no aluminum due to what I have already paid for and am under contract for. I wish I could understand the wording in the contract to not bother you guys on this but unfortunately this is all foreign language to me.
Thank you yet again for your input!
* Just a reminder my install is set for this coming Wednesday so I have to deal with this by tomorrow at the latest*

I'll defer to the others about what code is in your area. Personally, I would not be comfortable with Al wiring--particularly with that much current.

I would also strongly recommend you hardwire the charger rather than using a NEMA plug. Most electricians go the NEMA route because they have done a lot of them at customer request. However, if you also run a neutral wire (but leave it unused), that will allow you flexibility to install a NEMA outlet, sub panel, etc. in that same area later on if want. Again, it's about flexibility and paying a little more now instead of a lot more later.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by krypttic

I'll defer to the others about what code is in your area. Personally, I would not be comfortable with Al wiring—particularly with that much current.

I would also strongly recommend you hardwire the charger rather than using a NEMA plug. Most electricians go the NEMA route because they have done a lot of them at customer request. However, if you also run a neutral wire (but leave it unused), that will allow you flexibility to install a NEMA outlet, sub panel, etc. in that same area later on if want. Again, it's about flexibility and paying a little more now instead of a lot more later.

If you install 15-40, neutral is required. If you do hardwire, then it is up to thr electrician. For 50A circuit or 40A charging, plug and hardwire are the same. No different if you use a good quality plug.

[krypttic]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

If you install 15-40, neutral is required. If you do hardwire, then it is up to thr electrician. For 50A circuit or 40A charging, plug and hardwire are the same. No different if you use a good quality plug.

I respectfully disagree on the plug vs. hardwire being the same. Unless you need the ability to unplug and plug the charging cable in, hardwiring is better and safer. This is just my opinion, so OP should make up their own mind; but everything I read lead me to the hardwiring option to eliminate a point of failure and overheating. There is plenty of debate in other threads here if you want to do your own research.

As no neutral is required for hardwiring, I specifically requested that my electrician install one anyway in case I wanted to wire something different later that required one. It's a lot cheaper to run an extra wire now in the same conduit, and it sounds like you're already paying for it in your contract. You should also consider if you want to run any extra wires for more plugs, etc. in your garage now.

Just have a conversation with your electrician rather than accept whatever their vanilla plan is. You're the one that's going to have to live with this installation, after all.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by krypttic

I respectfully disagree on the plug vs. hardwire being the same. Unless you need the ability to unplug and plug the charging cable in, hardwiring is better and safer. This is just my opinion, so OP should make up their own mind; but everything I read lead me to the hardwiring option to eliminate a point of failure and overheating. There is plenty of debate in other threads here if you want to do your own research.

As no neutral is required for hardwiring, I specifically requested that my electrician install one anyway in case I wanted to wire something different later that required one. It's a lot cheaper to run an extra wire now in the same conduit, and it sounds like you're already paying for it in your contract. You should also consider if you want to run any extra wires for more plugs, etc. in your garage now.

Just have a conversation with your electrician rather than accept whatever their vanilla plan is. You're the one that's going to have to live with this installation, after all.

Yes. Whatever method, definitely get they neutral wire in. What I want to mentioned is just in case the job is hardwire, it is very easy for electrician to skip the neutral. Please make sure they doesn’t happen.

As to plug vs hardwire for 50A circuit, I would like to see any electricians make they claim with proper justification. So far, there is only one person here making up lies and show video that actually show hard is worse. But that video has a lot of credibility issue. The one less failure point argument is actually very laughable. Everything we add in life is additional failure point. I am open to new information.

[krypttic]

Here's the top hits of a Google search for "Nema or Hardwire EV Charger":

https://www.kuhlmanelectricalservice...s-nema-outlet/
https://tothelectricllc.com/is-it-be...in-ev-charger/
https://www.reddit.com/r/evcharging/..._read_that_an/

Just do your own research and make the best decision for you. Personally, I had no need for a plug so I chose to hardwire.

If you do choose to hardwire, as eelnoraa says, your electrican may indeed skip the neutral. I would insist they don't let that happen.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by krypttic

Here's the top hits of a Google search for "Nema or Hardwire EV Charger":

https://www.kuhlmanelectricalservice...s-nema-outlet/
https://tothelectricllc.com/is-it-be...in-ev-charger/
https://www.reddit.com/r/evcharging/..._read_that_an/

Just do your own research and make the best decision for you. Personally, I had no need for a plug so I chose to hardwire.

If you do choose to hardwire, as eelnoraa says, your electrican may indeed skip the neutral. I would insist they don't let that happen.

[edit] poor English spelling. I mean to say first link is subject and provide good info. 😅

Have to say tho, first link is pretty good and subjective . 2nd link, a lot of blanket general, but misinformation.

I am not bias toward one vs the other for a 50A setup. I think both are good. It really depend on one’s need. But I don’t like mis, fear monga information. Some are plain low for so specific agenda.

[jad03060]

The reliability of the socket can vary. What you really don't want is the plastic one that often goes for about $20 or so, but one made of Bakelite that is like 5x the cost. While the plastic ones are fine for say a stove that will have the elements cycling on and off, with an EVSE, the load is constant, so it doesn't have much chance to cool off in the interim.

A socket is not indicated as ideal if you expect to be removing and reinserting the EVSE's plug (like maybe to take it to a vacation home). There can be some significant heat buildup caused by the repeated heating/cooling of the wires and the blades in the socket expanding and contracting leading to loss of temper. Loose connections mean more resistance and thus more heat. You can find examples of even level 1 receptacles melting when things are plugged into one...your planned EVSE can pull a LOT more current, making any deficiency more problematic.

You can find online wire resistances, and then calculate how much power is lost in just the lines. 100' is a fairly long run, so voltage drop and resistance all start to matter.

You might want to consider running an even heavier gauge cable to a subpanel. That would also tend to minimize the voltage drop and waste heat. Not useful if you think you'll never want any other electrical devices in or near the garage.

This is from a Tesla user forum...

[Aussiejem]

Hi All and Happy 2024!
Query: is the Tesla Gen3 charger adaptable to the 50e? I'm looking at installing another Tesla charge point in my garage (already have a Model Y with a Tesla Gen3 charge point). Thanks

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Aussiejem

Hi All and Happy 2024!
Query: is the Tesla Gen3 charger adaptable to the 50e? I'm looking at installing another Tesla charge point in my garage (already have a Model Y with a Tesla Gen3 charge point). Thanks

It is a Tesla to J1772 adaptor. A few manufactures make them. I have one from Lectron. It works. you can google or find them on amazon

[Aussiejem]

Thanks appreciated! Just a plug adapter required. Easy

[WagonFan]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

It is a Tesla to J1772 adaptor. A few manufactures make them. I have one from Lectron. It works. you can google or find them on amazon

To add to this. Buying an adapter is a good idea anyway, since quite a few hotels as well have Tesla chargers.

As mentioned many different brands. I use a TeslaTap.

[jad03060]

Look at the max current a particular adapter can supply.

On some of the Tesla EVSEs, you may need to flip a configuration switch, otherwise, it may refuse to charge a non-Tesla vehicle, but given those two cravats, it should work.

[Aussiejem]

Thanks guys, much appreciated

[Shellman19]

Been meaning to write this post for a while now but better late than never... I just wanted to thank all those following this thread who posted to give me input on my EV charger install. I took your advice and insisted on getting all copper, all 6 gauge wire and a neutral wire installed and left in the junction box for potential future use. I feel great about the final install and knowing that my install is "over built" and should never have an electrical issue moving forward. Been using the EV charger for a couple months now and I have had virtually no issues with it. What more can I ask for?
Anyway, just wanted to thank those on this thread that took time to help me out since I was completely clueless about all this stuff. Much appreciated!!!