[eelnoraa]

45e owner here, my data keeping says these:
- sport mode with high HVB Soc: 27-28mpg on highway, 75-80mph
- sport mode with almost depleted usable range: 24-25mpg on highway, same drive habib as bove
- hybrid mode without charging HVB at all, so PHEV => HEV, combined city + highway, 22mpg across maybe 4-5 tanks of gas in 4 months

[bloozemanAZ]

ICE equals smiles per gallon. I appreciate the info on the PHEV's but nuked that for my wife's LCI (got a 40i) and wouldn't ever touch it for my DD (M850i).

[TexAg91]

Originally Posted by mscot

Why would the battery deplete if you're just driving in hybrid mode?
Shouldn't it regen just like a regular hybrid?
The battery in our Rav4 hybrid never depletes, its always in hybrid mode.

So if I take a roadtrip in an X5 PHEV and I'm in hybrid mode the entire time, would the battery actually deplete so I'm only in ICE mode?

The X5 PHEV (50e) battery never fully "depletes", it always has a reserve charge.


A PHEV is both an EV and a strong hybrid, it has 2 modes of power. On a full charge (from the power grid), it operates as an EV for the first 40 miles until the battery reaches a lower threshold state of charge, then the engine comes on and it operates as a strong hybrid that is electrically assisted. When in Hybrid mode, the 50e will use regenerative braking and the engine to maintain the lower threshold state of charge in the battery...it will not "deplete the battery". So in this mode, it is operating just like your hybrid Rav4...the difference is your Hybrid Rav 4 does not have an EV mode combined with a large capacity battery where it uses power from the grid for first 40 miles. (the PHEV version of the Rav 4 does). A PHEV battery will remain at this lower threshold state of charge until it is plugged back into the grid and recharged.

In theory, the 50e could use the engine to completely recharge the battery...but that would defeat the purpose of using grid power. Getting power from the grid is much more efficient than getting it from the engine, plus power from the grid is diversified (i.e., it is generated from hydro, nuclear, wind, solar, coal, gas turbine, etc.). In the PHEV, you're using power from those sources for the first 40 miles, vice getting the power strictly from petroleum.

Another benefit of a PHEV is they help reduce demand for petroleum, which serves to reduce gas prices (supply & demand). In the US, 70% of the population drives 40 miles or less a day, so if everyone drove a vehicle like the X5 50e, US demand for petroleum would be reduced by 70% (in theory anyway).

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by TexAg91

The X5 PHEV (50e) battery never fully "depletes", it always has a reserve charge.


A PHEV is both an EV and a strong hybrid, it has 2 modes of power. On a full charge (from the power grid), it operates as an EV for the first 40 miles until the battery reaches a lower threshold state of charge, then the engine comes on and it operates as a strong hybrid that is electrically assisted. When in Hybrid mode, the 50e will use regenerative braking and the engine to maintain the lower threshold state of charge in the battery...it will not "deplete the battery". So in this mode, it is operating just like your hybrid Rav4...the difference is your Hybrid Rav 4 does not have an EV mode combined with a large capacity battery where it uses power from the grid for first 40 miles. (the PHEV version of the Rav 4 does). A PHEV battery will remain at this lower threshold state of charge until it is plugged back into the grid and recharged.

In theory, the 50e could use the engine to completely recharge the battery...but that would defeat the purpose of using grid power. Getting power from the grid is much more efficient than getting it from the engine, plus power from the grid is diversified (i.e., it is generated from hydro, nuclear, wind, solar, coal, gas turbine, etc.). In the PHEV, you're using power from those sources for the first 40 miles, vice getting the power strictly from petroleum.

Another benefit of a PHEV is they help reduce demand for petroleum, which serves to reduce gas prices (supply & demand). In the US, 70% of the population drives 40 miles or less a day, so if everyone drove a vehicle like the X5 50e, US demand for petroleum would be reduced by 70% (in theory anyway).

all good an accurate information except the first part (bolded). in both the 45e and 50e, there is gross capacity, usable capacity, and unusable capacity. once usable capacity is depleted, the unusable capacity is not utilized. calling it “reserved” is inaccurate because it’s not reserved for any use whatsoever

[TexAg91]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

all good an accurate information except the first part (bolded). in both the 45e and 50e, there is gross capacity, usable capacity, and unusable capacity. once usable capacity is depleted, the unusable capacity is not utilized. calling it “reserved” is inaccurate because it’s not reserved for any use whatsoever

Fair enough...point being the battery still has a SOC, else it would brick. But you are correct, software prevents using the remaining SOC below the lower threshold to protect the battery.

[jad03060]

FWIW, an indicated '0' in range or '---' does not absolutely mean there's no usable battery capacity left...it's just that it can't drive at least a mile in EV mode. IOW, with regeneration and vehicle logic, it tries to always retain some power to augment the ICE and operate in hybrid mode. It won't be able to move very far on electricity alone. You may not get power to climb a mountain, but there's some there almost all of the time to augment the ICE capability.

[bono]

Getting back to the OP question - I just finished approx. 400 miles trip from Northern California to SoCal. The battery was empty when I started the trip. I was charging the battery up to 8 miles with the hold function.

The mpg for this distance was around 30 mpg. I was really nicely surprised. This is mpg I am getting in my old X5 diesel (6 speed transmission).

[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by bono

Getting back to the OP question - I just finished approx. 400 miles trip from Northern California to SoCal. The battery was empty when I started the trip. I was charging the battery up to 8 miles with the hold function.

The mpg for this distance was around 30 mpg. I was really nicely surprised. This is mpg I am getting in my old X5 diesel (6 speed transmission).

Wow that is very high, much higher than the rated combined 22. Assuming you are taking I-5 which is mostly flat at 75~80mph with minimal traffic?

[bono]

Yes, I-5. This was smooth sailing. I left in early afternoon before the rush hour in the Bay Area and arrived to OC after rush hour. Most of the distance was in the driving assistance mode (which works really great).

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by bono

Yes, I-5. This was smooth sailing. I left in early afternoon before the rush hour in the Bay Area and arrived to OC after rush hour. Most of the distance was in the driving assistance mode (which works really great).

30MPG on highway is nice. It is reasonable given 45e can do 27-28. 50e has better gear ratios and final drive ratio, highway MPG should be better than 45e

[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

30MPG on highway is nice. It is reasonable given 45e can do 27-28. 50e has better gear ratios and final drive ratio, highway MPG should be better than 45e

This is quite higher than my '21 X3 M40i, which gets ~26.5mpg max on highway at 80mph in my experience.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by alanzyy

This is quite higher than my '21 X3 M40i, which gets ~26.5mpg max on highway at 80mph in my experience.

I think gear ratio and tuning matters as well.

[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I think gear ratio and tuning matters as well.

Yea... Still X5x50e is 1200+lb heavier than X3M40i but still managed to get quite a bit better highway mpg. I am very surprised.

[bono]

Caveat is that this was not spirited driving. Highway speed in self-driving mode. Cruise control 10 miles above the limit.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by alanzyy

Yea... Still X5x50e is 1200+lb heavier than X3M40i but still managed to get quite a bit better highway mpg. I am very surprised.

Don't forget TU2 is also more efficient too. Majority of I5 is very flat, so weight doesn't play much of a rule for constant speed, flat road.

If you look at BWM EPA rating, G05 40i is rated at 27mpg. G01 M40i is rated at 26MPG. So even BMW think G05 is more efficient. Gear ratio appears to be the same, so maybe engine tuning play a major role for this.

[TexAg91]

Originally Posted by bono

Getting back to the OP question - I just finished approx. 400 miles trip from Northern California to SoCal. The battery was empty when I started the trip. I was charging the battery up to 8 miles with the hold function.

The mpg for this distance was around 30 mpg. I was really nicely surprised. This is mpg I am getting in my old X5 diesel (6 speed transmission).

Great MPG, but you're saying you added 8 miles of EV range by leaving it in hold mode over your 400 mile trip? I thought hold mode just maintained the current battery state of charge? If I understand correctly, that's surprising -- sounds like hold mode is a recharge mode if the battery is depleted. That also means if you hadn't used the engine to recharge the PHEV battery to 20% (8miles/40 miles) you would have gotten even higher MPG.

[cat3dual]

Just completed my first roadtrip in the 50e.

Distance traveled: 344.8 miles
Gals of fuel used: 10.322
MPG: 33.4 (spot on with the car's calculation)
Battery % at start: 100%
Battery % at end: 8%
Estimated kWh used: 18.4
Electric cost: $2.23 (assuming 10% charging efficiency loss and 11 cents/kWh)

Driven entirely in the default Hybrid mode. Destination set in Nav so battery was sparingly used until remaining distance to go was within the electric-only range at which time the car used exclsuively electric and I arrived with an estimated 3 miles of remaining electric-only range.

Mostly 65-75 mph just cruising. No aggressive overtakes/passing. 600 ft overall drop in elevation. Half of the drive was in light to moderate rain. First half temp in the 50s. Second half in the 70s. Headwinds/tailwinds pretty much cancelled out.

I would imagine on longer drives where the electric-only portion is a smaller percentage of the total distance travelled, the MPG would be more reflective of a mostly B58 propulsion and settle-in somewhere around 29-30 mpg.

1,200 mile ICE break-in completed with this trip. So, looking forward to exceeding 4,500 rpm!

[gadgetfreak2024]

Originally Posted by cat3dual

Just completed my first roadtrip in the 50e.

Distance traveled: 344.8 miles
Gals of fuel used: 10.322
MPG: 33.4 (spot on with the car's calculation)
Battery % at start: 100%
Battery % at end: 8%
Estimated kWh used: 18.4
Electric cost: $2.23 (assuming 10% charging efficiency loss and 11 cents/kWh)

Driven entirely in the default Hybrid mode. Destination set in Nav so battery was sparingly used until remaining distance to go was within the electric-only range at which time the car used exclsuively electric and I arrived with an estimated 3 miles of remaining electric-only range.

Mostly 65-75 mph just cruising. No aggressive overtakes/passing. 600 ft overall drop in elevation. Half of the drive was in light to moderate rain. First half temp in the 50s. Second half in the 70s. Headwinds/tailwinds pretty much cancelled out.

I would imagine on longer drives where the electric-only portion is a smaller percentage of the total distance travelled, the MPG would be more reflective of a mostly B58 propulsion and settle-in somewhere around 29-30 mpg.

1,200 mile ICE break-in completed with this trip. So, looking forward to exceeding 4,500 rpm!

Super helpful, thorough post. Appreciate you sharing.

[RetSurfer]

Originally Posted by TexAg91

Great MPG, but you're saying you added 8 miles of EV range by leaving it in hold mode over your 400 mile trip? I thought hold mode just maintained the current battery state of charge? If I understand correctly, that's surprising — sounds like hold mode is a recharge mode if the battery is depleted. That also means if you hadn't used the engine to recharge the PHEV battery to 20% (8miles/40 miles) you would have gotten even higher MPG.

I drove 500 miles last month on battery hold and didn't gain 1 mile..

[bono]

I am not 100% sure, but I think hold will charge the battery to certain level (maybe 4 miles). I think I read somewhere here on this forum that if you turn on "hold" and after some time turn it off and on again, you will get additional miles of charge.

I did thin on this trip (on, off, on) and I got to 8 miles max.

Originally Posted by TexAg91

Great MPG, but you're saying you added 8 miles of EV range by leaving it in hold mode over your 400 mile trip? I thought hold mode just maintained the current battery state of charge? If I understand correctly, that's surprising -- sounds like hold mode is a recharge mode if the battery is depleted. That also means if you hadn't used the engine to recharge the PHEV battery to 20% (8miles/40 miles) you would have gotten even higher MPG.

[nZtiZia]

Battery Hold does not charge up to any certain level; it will hold the current state of charge. if while driving the vehicle regenerates more battery capacity equating to increased electric mileage such as on a long downhill descent, folks would deactivate and reactivate BH so as to ‘reset’ the new held value. theoretically, one can do this a number of times to maintain a higher battery charge level than when BH was initially activated

[bono]

I started with 0% battery. If I didn't use hold function, the car would use whatever power it regenerated for a hybrid mode (I know this as I tested it). When I was using hold function, I think it was using ICE to get the battery to certain level (4%) and then it didn't go any further. When I deactivated and activated hold it was going above this 4%.

I didn't ready any technical documentation as it should work. This is base on my experience on ca. 400 miles trip, mostly flat, light traffic highway, so not that much regen happening.

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

Battery Hold does not charge up to any certain level; it will hold the current state of charge. if while driving the vehicle regenerates more battery capacity equating to increased electric mileage such as on a long downhill descent, folks would deactivate and reactivate BH so as to ‘reset’ the new held value. theoretically, one can do this a number of times to maintain a higher battery charge level than when BH was initially activated