[jad03060]

BMW is in its 4th or 5th iteration of PHEV vehicles, and a similar phase on their EVs, so they are not 'new' to the technology. That doesn't mean there haven't been some hiccups along the way. I had one of the first batch of i3's in the country, and that was pretty reliable. Again, a sample of one.

[bimmerwhale]

I also wanted to raise the health concern as my major reluctant acceptance to e-cars.

The electromagnetic fields in e-cars are sometimes hazard and not fully studied or disclosed by car makers. You can google many research and discussion on this topic. Especially when the e-car is so powerful coupled with itself being a Faraday cage that magnifies emf.

[WagonFan]

Originally Posted by Drbob20

From what I'm understanding, in this scenario if you drove 45 miles each way using the hybrid mode you'd probably not deplete the battery on one way of the commute as the car will do it's thing and switch between battery and ICE, still leaving some juice left for the drive home, bumping up the AVG mph. I'm sure someone with real world experience can chime in and confirm.

I drive similar distances frequently. Here is my procedure.

I turn on Navigation and route home (while I am home). Then I add my destination as a stop. In the OP case the work location.

Then I use Hybrid Eco mode.

The 50e will perfectly and smooth switch between ICE and EV and manage most efficiently the EV usage. By the time I arrive home I may have 1 or 2 miles remaining EV power. No need to use battery hold. I only use battery hold if my ride has unknown length.

However I take the liberty to switch to Sport mode in between to enjoy the “fun” aspect of the engine/car.

[rainmn60]

I owned two previous generation X5s, non hybrid. I bought the 50e 3 months ago and I’m thoroughly enjoying the drive, power, handling, technology and efficiency. Most of my driving is electric. I have a short daily commute (less than 10 miles round trip) and do a few long road trips (500 miles) a year. I already did two with the new X5. The hybrid tech worked as expected, I got around 32 MPG. Recharged on both ends of the trip but felt no dependency to do it as you would have to with a EV. Best of both worlds. I have a level 2 charger in my garage.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by bimmerwhale

I will always get a gas car over e-cars as long as the law allows.
The infrastructure is just not there for charging and I have seen those long waiting lines at the charging stations.
When you buy expensive cars, you likely wouldn't care about the gas money you saved or overpaid.
Lastly, I am uncertain about newer e-cars' long term maintenance and battery life. Gas cars are in their peak form and technology. E-cars are still relatively infant and associated risks are not fully revealed or understood.

I guess many don't agree here, especially those use Hybrid Eco Pro.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by bimmerwhale

I will always get a gas car over e-cars as long as the law allows.
The infrastructure is just not there for charging and I have seen those long waiting lines at the charging stations.
When you buy expensive cars, you likely wouldn't care about the gas money you saved or overpaid.
Lastly, I am uncertain about newer e-cars' long term maintenance and battery life. Gas cars are in their peak form and technology. E-cars are still relatively infant and associated risks are not fully revealed or understood.

Glad to hear from someone who has these doubts at present about EVs, PHEVs, etc. I can't imagine spending 90 grand on a vehicle and then jumping through hoops to save a buck a day or maybe nothing at all vs an all gas car.
Some guys seem to like these electrified vehicles and that is good for them but they are in a very distinct minority.
The EV industry needs a few very significant technological advancements before you see any widespread acceptance of these vehicles.

[Mattl0806]

Originally Posted by cobramite

Glad to hear from someone who has these doubts at present about EVs, PHEVs, etc. I can't imagine spending 90 grand on a vehicle and then jumping through hoops to save a buck a day or maybe nothing at all vs an all gas car.
Some guys seem to like these electrified vehicles and that is good for them but they are in a very distinct minority.
The EV industry needs a few very significant technological advancements before you see any widespread acceptance of these vehicles.

(From what I’ve been reading here)

I think at this luxury price point the overwhelming majority of people are NOT buying the hybrid to save a buck… 1) the convenience of not going to the gas station, 2) garage conditioning, 3) quiet + smooth ride are the main reasons people are doing it.

Which I agree are substantial value adds but for me I’m still not convinced I want the complexity / sacrifices that come with the PHEV 50e - bmw might be a lot smoother than jeep but it still can’t be as good as pure ice

[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by Mattl0806

(From what I’ve been reading here)

I think at this luxury price point the overwhelming majority of people are NOT buying the hybrid to save a buck… 1) the convenience of not going to the gas station, 2) garage conditioning, 3) quiet + smooth ride are the main reasons people are doing it.

Which I agree are substantial value adds but for me I’m still not convinced I want the complexity / sacrifices that come with the PHEV 50e - bmw might be a lot smoother than jeep but it still can’t be as good as pure ice

Except there is no pure ice anymore - all x5 currently are at least mild hybrid which itself add quite a bit complexity, although not as far as phev, but quite close.

I was one of those who rush to get the last batch of pre LCI x3 m40i. In my mind if you have to add complexity of hybridization, it better add some value.

[dcorn]

Originally Posted by Mattl0806

(From what I’ve been reading here)

I think at this luxury price point the overwhelming majority of people are NOT buying the hybrid to save a buck… 1) the convenience of not going to the gas station, 2) garage conditioning, 3) quiet + smooth ride are the main reasons people are doing it.

Which I agree are substantial value adds but for me I’m still not convinced I want the complexity / sacrifices that come with the PHEV 50e - bmw might be a lot smoother than jeep but it still can’t be as good as pure ice

Yup, not at all about saving money (OK maybe a little), but mostly about luxury. Cruising around silently in a vehicle with comfortable suspension and a really nice interior is really appealing to me. I'm usually all about exhaust noise and interaction, but now I just want a smooth, comfortable daily driver with modern tech. And having plenty of power when necessary.

PHEV gives the luxury of hardly having to stop at a gas station during the normal work commute, plus not having to stop and hassle with EV charging stations during a long road trip. Lots of convenience built in.

[TurtleBoy]

Vehicles nowadays are so complex I'm not too worried about any added complexity due to the PHEV. My biggest problem is trying to convince my wife to get a vehicle that plugs in. Thankfully the M60e won't be out for another three years, gives me a lot of time to work on her. Unfortunately my initial salvos the other week were shot down in flames. Have to do a strategic retreat and come up with a different strategy. The "all new vehicles are going that way", "it will save a lot on gas" and "it will be 570 horsepower" didn't move the needle.

[Mattl0806]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Vehicles nowadays are so complex I'm not too worried about any added complexity due to the PHEV. My biggest problem is trying to convince my wife to get a vehicle that plugs in. Thankfully the M60e won't be out for another three years, gives me a lot of time to work on her. Unfortunately my initial salvos the other week were shot down in flames. Have to do a strategic retreat and come up with a different strategy. The "all new vehicles are going that way", "it will save a lot on gas" and "it will be 570 horsepower" didn't move the needle.

I probably used the wrong word complexity. I was more referring to the multiple motors and the interplay btw then not being as smooth as ICE (even with mild hybrid).

As far as the wife goes - my wife says my strategy is to bring it up 10000 times wearing her down little by little until she gives in just to get me to stop ..

[aussieintexas]

Originally Posted by Drbob20

From what I'm understanding, in this scenario if you drove 45 miles each way using the hybrid mode you'd probably not deplete the battery on one way of the commute as the car will do it's thing and switch between battery and ICE, still leaving some juice left for the drive home, bumping up the AVG mph. I'm sure someone with real world experience can chime in and confirm.

What about using Adaptive mode - how would that impact it?

[jad03060]

Originally Posted by Mattl0806

I was more referring to the multiple motors and the interplay btw then not being as smooth as ICE (even with mild hybrid).

In the X5 PHEV, the EV motor is integrated into the transmission assembly with clutches on both ends so the powertrain can move the vehicle with the ICE alone, the EV alone, or in combination, with the clutches opening or closing when appropriate. Unlike say a motor on each axle, or say each wheel where coordinating them might be messy, in the BMW situation, all of the power goes exactly the same path through the transmission, and thus can easily retain the X-drive, regardless of which motor(s) are driving the vehicle.

The mild hybrid's EV motor is also in the transmission, but is much smaller than in the PHEV.

[Mattl0806]

Originally Posted by jad03060

In the X5 PHEV, the EV motor is integrated into the transmission assembly with clutches on both ends so the powertrain can move the vehicle with the ICE alone, the EV alone, or in combination, with the clutches opening or closing when appropriate. Unlike say a motor on each axle, or say each wheel where coordinating them might be messy, in the BMW situation, all of the power goes exactly the same path through the transmission, and thus can easily retain the X-drive, regardless of which motor(s) are driving the vehicle.

The mild hybrid's EV motor adds power from a belt drive to the crankshaft.

Thank you for this. It’s nice to learn about this and I can see why that implementation could be fully transparent to the driver! I’ve gotta test drive one of these since I’ve now got crappy experience from my wife’s JgC hybrid - would be a great comparison for me now.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The mild hybrid's EV motor adds power from a belt drive to the crankshaft.

The MH electric motor is integrated into the transmission.

"The 6 and 8-cylinder combustion engines are combined with an 8-speed Steptronic Sport transmission with an integrated electric motor. The electric motor generates an output boost of up to 12 hp and 147 lb-ft of torque, helping the engine to deliver a smooth, dynamic drive along with high efficiency. The electric motor has the additional effect of enabling smoother operation of both the Automatic Start/Stop function and the coasting function active when the ECO PRO mode is selected."

[eelnoraa]

I just cannot understand why someone with very little to zero knowledge about the mechanic of cars, has to keep giving out wrong information.

Drive belt of an engine is for powering very small components, like alternator, water pump, AC ... You cannot apply power at the belt, and hope to drive the crank.

As to number of clutch in the transmission/eDrive area, there is only 1 clutch. There is no "clutches on both ends", only one end.

Originally Posted by Mattl0806

Thank you for this. It’s nice to learn about this and I can see why that implementation could be fully transparent to the driver! I’ve gotta test drive one of these since I’ve now got crappy experience from my wife’s JgC hybrid - would be a great comparison for me now.

The blanket statement was OK, it is supposed to be system fully transparent to user. But the technical detail are mostly wrong as usual

[jad03060]

One of the mild hybrids I read about in the last few days (I thought it was the BMW) uses the drive belt to apply power. If I can find the article, I'll link it. https://www.seg-automotive.com/48v/m...cture_slider_6 implementation P0

Or this... https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/05/06/h...id-technology/

The diagram for this does not show a motor in the transmission, so is incomplete at best, and distracting.

Also note, FYI, there's a difference between an oil bypass and a pressure regulation valve...they can be combined into one, but are often separate, and perform different functions.

[eluded]

Over time more technical info about the tranny and engine will hopefully come out!

https://x-engineer.org/bmw-phev-powe...-architecture/
This shows two clutches, K0 and IAE.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by eluded

Over time more technical info about the tranny and engine will hopefully come out!

https://x-engineer.org/bmw-phev-powe...-architecture/
This shows two clutches, K0 and IAE.

Sigh, this document I saw long time ago. I think the context is important. Here I didn't put thing into right context either, because I didn't bother to highlight what is wrong, because I don't want to engage another no end discussion.

IAE, if you look at the operation table, IAE is only open when coasting. Meaning it is there to disable regen or enable regen during coasting. If you look at where it is placed, it is not because it is there so that the car can be driven by "ICE along or EV along" If IAE is open, nothing can power the car. Emotor actually doesn't need a clutch.

Also think actual operation. If IAE can open and let EV drive crank, why there is a need for 12V starter? IAE open, EV motor start engine. Now can that be done, sure, but it is not the purpose in 45e and in 50e.

Let me give you another context matter topics. Oil by pass valve and oil pressure regulation valve were mentioned. But the background was, he thinks the oil by pass valve is there so that if oil is too cold and thick in cold start, and if the driver floor the engine, pump cannot push this cold thick oil through engine, pressure can build up enough to by pass valve open and let unfiltered oil flow around engine. I am not going to explain why I don't agree because reality is just too far. I cannot discuss algebra with something who doesn't know 1+1=2. You sure can agree or disagree. I will just agree to disagree.

[hiluca]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Vehicles nowadays are so complex I'm not too worried about any added complexity due to the PHEV. My biggest problem is trying to convince my wife to get a vehicle that plugs in. Thankfully the M60e won't be out for another three years, gives me a lot of time to work on her. Unfortunately my initial salvos the other week were shot down in flames. Have to do a strategic retreat and come up with a different strategy. The "all new vehicles are going that way", "it will save a lot on gas" and "it will be 570 horsepower" didn't move the needle.

is there actually any mechanical difference between the current 50e en M60e in the 7 series ?

[WagonFan]

Originally Posted by aussieintexas

What about using Adaptive mode - how would that impact it?

To my knowledge 45e has an adaptive mode which is not available on 50e.

50e has “Hybrid Eco Pro” mode which is adaptive with Navigation as I described a few posts earlier.

[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by WagonFan

To my knowledge 45e has an adaptive mode which is not available on 50e.

50e has “Hybrid Eco Pro” mode which is adaptive with Navigation as I described a few posts earlier.

"Adaptive" driving mode is no longer a standalone concept for BMW cars released after ~2021. It is "folded" to the regular driving mode such as comfort modes or hybrid modes.