[cfm56d7b]

These 0-60 tests produce plenty of conversions but don't tell the entire story about the vehicle - yet we all eagerly anticipate these tests.

Audi RSQ8 looks as if Audi did its homework on what the buyers in the target consumer segment want.

I still prefer X5M even if Carwow did a test between all competitors re-entering Earth's atmosphere with 100 layers of ceramic coating to declare the winning car based on the radiator remains plummeting to the ground.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by 340i9114s

The X6 is by far the ugliest car of the three. Its been the ugliest car BMW made, since they made it. I cringe every time I see one.

Love or hate for sure

But the Trackhawk absolutely takes home the title in the ugly department

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by scoobysaurus

I beg to differ. The Porsche looks the best followed by the BMW. The Audi looks horrible with its forced 'blackface'. Reminds me of late model Silverados. Too ugly to be edgy and too soft to be sporty.

The form language is definitely questionable on the Audi RSQ8

Still it's bold for a manufacturer that's so conservative

But the Audi sounded quite dull for a RS Model

[thaalrasha]

Originally Posted by KoenG

This is straightline performance, it isn't indicative at all for the vehicle dynamics. I wonder why everybody keeps doing this dumb irrelevant tests?

People concerned on how a SUV take a corner don't buy SUVs. Accelerating in a straight line is probably the most common scenario for those.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

People concerned on how a SUV take a corner don't buy SUVs. Accelerating in a straight line is probably the most common scenario for those.

Unless you live on a planet that's connected with straight lines, I doubt this. Every car is more determined by its transversal and pitch, yaw, roll behaviour driving from one turn into the next. A simple moose test would already be clearly more relevant to judge the dynamic behaviour than this.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Sadly 0-60 times and straight line performance have become way too much of an important factor in cars. The number of comments I see of people calling cars like an RS6 or Macan Turbo, (cars that hit 0-60 in under 4-seconds) slow is just absurd. Even worse are the Tesla fanboy comments.

What will happen when they go below 3 and low 2's? Speed limits aren't getting much higher. With all this speed and power, the limits of a car becomes way too high with it, so quick that you then miss out on the fun, and it becomes not too usable on the street outside of stop light racing (which that in itself is another rant).

What you state is consonant with what most of us think, but still so many judgements posted on a few 0.1 seconds delta between these monster cars?

[speedyman]

That Turbo S with its insane price tag should be a runaway here but is obviously not. I've been the 911 and Cayenne route a total of 3 times and can tell you from my experience and those of other guys that these Porsches are NOT worth the price especially the past 5 years.

[themnmd]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Fascinating thread. BMW owners vs. Porsche fanboys vs. BMW owners who are Porsche fanboys!

Ditto , and like I drive a BMW which I secretly hate and love Porsches which I won't buy. While I do not love the X6 design, I don't hate it. In fact I would consider getting a X6M based on performance tech and amenities alone. TheX6 design is not that far from the other SAV coupes out there. Bottom line BMW will make what sells, regardless of what you or I think

[m-ch]

Originally Posted by Neptune7

The rolling race in Sport was a big win for Porsche though....

of course as they used sportplus on the cayenne during the rolling race in its sharpest setting, and only in sport plus the cayenne use 550hp plus 130 electicel Hp. On Hybrid mode the cayenne uses 550 ice Hp and almost no electricel power, as the Ice power is used to regen the battery first.

So big difference between Sportplus, Sport and hybrid mode for the cayenne concerning available combined HP

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Sadly 0-60 times and straight line performance have become way too much of an important factor in cars. The number of comments I see of people calling cars like an RS6 or Macan Turbo, (cars that hit 0-60 in under 4-seconds) slow is just absurd. Even worse are the Tesla fanboy comments.

What will happen when they go below 3 and low 2's? Speed limits aren't getting much higher. With all this speed and power, the limits of a car becomes way too high with it, so quick that you then miss out on the fun, and it becomes not too usable on the street outside of stop light racing (which that in itself is another rant).

You make such a very good point. Sports/Performance vehicles have become so fast that some of our traditional metrics are now a bit academic. Here is a perfect example and keep in mind this is a base model Corvette not a Z06 or ZR1 which will certainly be faster:
2.8 seconds is now considered to be nothing special as is a 2.9 for a 911S. Some cars including the electrics are mid to low 2s, absolutely nuts.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by speedyman

You make such a very good point. Sports/Performance vehicles have become so fast that some of our traditional metrics are now a bit academic. Here is a perfect example and keep in mind this is a base model Corvette not a Z06 or ZR1 which will certainly be faster:Attachment 2477701
2.8 seconds is now considered to be nothing special as is a 2.9 for a 911S. Some cars including the electrics are mid to low 2s, absolutely nuts.

so even in R&T no vehicle dynamics. At best the static transversal skidpad 1.03g. Really disappointing for the detailed test of a genuine sportscar which should excel with its dynamic capabilities (mid-engined, low COG, short wheelbase, stiff suspension). The only thing that seems to matter is lateral acceleration.

[GOLFFRR]

just keeps winning in all these head to heads, love it!

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by KoenG

so even in R&T no vehicle dynamics. At best the static transversal skidpad 1.03g. Really disappointing for the detailed test of a genuine sportscar which should excel with its dynamic capabilities (mid-engined, low COG, short wheelbase, stiff suspension). The only thing that seems to matter is lateral acceleration.

I had a spirited ride in one with a guy who runs alot down here at Sebring and can tell you that this is more car than 99.9% of the population could ever use. The car is just awesome, top notch interior, super car looks and cornering. GM nailed it and this is only the entry level. Z06 and ZR1 to come, they will both be a bitch.

[SHARMAATL]

Beyond the vacuum of just this video comparison, something to keep in mind for those preferring the Porsche over the BMW here is also the factor of real world choice.

A loaded BMW X6M tops out at right around $130K. A Cayenne Turbo (non-hybrid) comparably equipped is just shy of $180K.

You could, for the difference, and considering BMW has way more generous discounts, get both an X6M and a base M2 Coupe for the same price as a Cayenne Turbo.

Which of the Porsche folks would rather still have the Cayenne?

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by SHARMAATL

Beyond the vacuum of just this video comparison, something to keep in mind for those preferring the Porsche over the BMW here is also the factor of real world choice.

A loaded BMW X6M tops out at right around $130K. A Cayenne Turbo (non-hybrid) comparably equipped is just shy of $180K.

You could, for the difference, and considering BMW has way more generous discounts, get both an X6M and a base M2 Coupe for the same price as a Cayenne Turbo.

Which of the Porsche folks would rather still have the Cayenne?

That brings up the rub with the modern Porsche. They are way over priced for what you get any way you want to twist it. They are not that good of a vehicle and built like any other VAG car. This is coming from a guy with $24k of options on his last C4S. Dash rattles, squeaks, temperamental window switches, are all still there and part of the modern P car experience.
Where Porsche knows they have their more experienced buyers is that no one could ever live with a base model Porsche. They are horribly low rent so Porsche offers up 52 pages of options to make the car acceptable for a six-figure vehicle at the new owners expense. Porsche likes to twist this choke hold buying experience into a “bespoke” level of individual design to enhance the Porsche ownership experience. (I have been buying Porsche 911’s before they did this kind of crap so I have seen what’s inside the sausage).
Really they know a plastic interior and vinyl seats at the base level is a dirty little secret no one would ever think is possible from Porsche.. Porsche has done a 180. Porsche is marketing and selling the brand itself and NOT the cars as they once did decades ago.

I am not putting the Porsche brand down as I still own classic 911’s but find it strangely naïve some would put the modern Porsche brand on a pedestal above other German brands as if they really believe the marking magic at this level of buying.

[Al Pinã]

Originally Posted by SHARMAATL

Beyond the vacuum of just this video comparison, something to keep in mind for those preferring the Porsche over the BMW here is also the factor of real world choice.

A loaded BMW X6M tops out at right around $130K. A Cayenne Turbo (non-hybrid) comparably equipped is just shy of $180K.

You could, for the difference, and considering BMW has way more generous discounts, get both an X6M and a base M2 Coupe for the same price as a Cayenne Turbo.

Which of the Porsche folks would rather still have the Cayenne?

My sentiments exactly. Was cross-shopping the Panamera Turbo before I picked up my 750i and what immediately turned me off was the shamelessly petty option costs on a Porsche. I found it hard to believe they had the nerve to charge an additional $1200 for Heads Up Display on a car that starts at over $150K. Many things that should be standard or no cost options instead add 10s of thousands to the bottom line.

This partially explains why they were nearly out of business before VW scooped them up.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by SHARMAATL

Beyond the vacuum of just this video comparison, something to keep in mind for those preferring the Porsche over the BMW here is also the factor of real world choice.

A loaded BMW X6M tops out at right around $130K. A Cayenne Turbo (non-hybrid) comparably equipped is just shy of $180K.

You could, for the difference, and considering BMW has way more generous discounts, get both an X6M and a base M2 Coupe for the same price as a Cayenne Turbo.

Which of the Porsche folks would rather still have the Cayenne?

Better yet, I'd just get a regular X5 40i/M50i and get a 718 GTS. I personally see no need in the high-performance SUV's but I'm sure others will disagree.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Better yet, I'd just get a regular X5 40i/M50i and get a 718 GTS. I personally see no need in the high-performance SUV's but I'm sure others will disagree.

Agree about the high performance SUVs. However, all these cars are crossovers that were built on performance car platforms. Despite the higher weight, they drive and handle better than some of the “normal” sedans out there. I recently drove both the X3M and the X5M on my local Pam Beach Raceway and both cars behave and handle on the track just fine. I was genuinely surprised.

[Neptune7]

Good discussion about the Porsche brand - my guess is that the folks that buy a Turbo S Cayenne have money to burn and won't think twice about getting the most expensive car of the category they are looking for to set themselves apart from the rest. The cayenne offers the price and the under radar silhouette that gives it the advantage over the Urus/Bentleys.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

That brings up the rub with the modern Porsche. They are way over priced for what you get any way you want to twist it. They are not that good of a vehicle and built like any other VAG car. This is coming from a guy with $24k of options on his last C4S. Dash rattles, squeaks, temperamental window switches, are all still there and part of the modern P car experience.
Where Porsche knows they have their more experienced buyers is that no one could ever live with a base model Porsche. They are horribly low rent so Porsche offers up 52 pages of options to make the car acceptable for a six-figure vehicle at the new owners expense. Porsche likes to twist this choke hold buying experience into a "bespoke" level of individual design to enhance the Porsche ownership experience. (I have been buying Porsche 911's before they did this kind of crap so I have seen what's inside the sausage).
Really they know a plastic interior and vinyl seats at the base level is a dirty little secret no one would ever think is possible from Porsche.. Porsche has done a 180. Porsche is marketing and selling the brand itself and NOT the cars as they once did decades ago.

I am not putting the Porsche brand down as I still own classic 911's but find it strangely naïve some would put the modern Porsche brand on a pedestal above other German brands as if they really believe the marking magic at this level of buying.

I have $32k in options on my E Hybrid, it is worth it, at least compared to the 45e I turned down on arrival. I think with air and PDCC the Cayenne drives better than any other mid size SUV. I drove the 45e I turned down, an M50i, and a Q7 (not a Q8). I did not consider a GLE, didn't like the new design. It is also pretty quick (4.2 sec 0-60) and returning 30mpg. I know you really dislike the Cayenne, and have said so often, and that is fine since there are tons of options, and personal taste is just that, personal. I much prefer the a la carte options on the Porsche, hate that BMW followed Lexus with option bundles. I will not hesitate to look at BMW in the future, as long as the pig nose of the iX, and 4 Series doesn't spill over onto every model.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by m-ch

of course as they used sportplus on the cayenne during the rolling race in its sharpest setting, and only in sport plus the cayenne use 550hp plus 130 electicel Hp. On Hybrid mode the cayenne uses 550 ice Hp and almost no electricel power, as the Ice power is used to regen the battery first.

So big difference between Sportplus, Sport and hybrid mode for the cayenne concerning available combined HP

This isn't correct. The only time the Cayenne uses full ICE and electric hp is when depressing the boost button on the sport chrono dial. (I have the Cayenne).

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

That brings up the rub with the modern Porsche. They are way over priced for what you get any way you want to twist it. They are not that good of a vehicle and built like any other VAG car. This is coming from a guy with $24k of options on his last C4S. Dash rattles, squeaks, temperamental window switches, are all still there and part of the modern P car experience.
Where Porsche knows they have their more experienced buyers is that no one could ever live with a base model Porsche. They are horribly low rent so Porsche offers up 52 pages of options to make the car acceptable for a six-figure vehicle at the new owners expense. Porsche likes to twist this choke hold buying experience into a “bespoke” level of individual design to enhance the Porsche ownership experience. (I have been buying Porsche 911’s before they did this kind of crap so I have seen what’s inside the sausage).
Really they know a plastic interior and vinyl seats at the base level is a dirty little secret no one would ever think is possible from Porsche.. Porsche has done a 180. Porsche is marketing and selling the brand itself and NOT the cars as they once did decades ago.

I am not putting the Porsche brand down as I still own classic 911’s but find it strangely naïve some would put the modern Porsche brand on a pedestal above other German brands as if they really believe the marking magic at this level of buying.

The subject of late model Porsche could not be covered any better than this, you nailed it my friend.
I love the new 992s and have considered the base Carerra and the S but holy bajeeezus the price with options from their lengthy list that you feel drunk after reading.