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      01-02-2020, 12:45 PM   #1
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Proposed garage addition - any thoughts?

We hired an interior designer to help us with some projects we would like to do, one of which is to add a double garage to the house, without it looking like an obvious add on.

Currently, we have a two car garage, but the doors are not wide (wouldn't be able to fit a pickup in there if I ever wanted one) nor is the length there. And one of the garage bays is full anyways with lawn tractor, snow blower, bicycles and kid toys...so we really only have one garage. So I park outside.

I doubt the PDF will go through, so you may have to click the link

I've circled the addition on the second page. On the first page, it is more or less the highlighted items except those that say existing.

Basically, we'd be turning the garage bay we currently use for lawnmowers into a mudroom and a laundry room, with a wall in between. And our existing laundry room would then be converted into a full bathroom.

With a new two car garage with an entry from the house.

Any thoughts on the plans - see any flaws? The one thing my wife really wants is the mudroom, so we are going back to the designer and get them to redraw that part by taking space from the laundry room and putting it in the mudroom instead, just shifting the wall to make the mudroom larger and laundry smaller.

I don't plan on doing any wrenching in the garage, it is really storage, anyone built a garage and have some must have's or wishes that I should take into account. I would probably just have the garage either unfinished, or put a few sheets of drywall up. I doubt I'd insulate unless absolutely need to given its attached to the house.
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      01-02-2020, 01:21 PM   #2
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Couple of thoughts.

Go as high as you can with clear ceilings so in the future you can put in a lift if you want. Even if it is just to store another car (not to work on the cars). If you have near-term plans for a lift, get a garage door that works for that (roll up or high track), and use a jack shaft opener instead of the typical style.

Run a 220v circuit into each garage - you may want to power a lift or other equipment, or charge an EV in the future.

Add lots of lighting! Makes it so much easier to clean a car, do whatever little projects you will in the garage.

Consider epoxy flooring, or a garage tile, or at least seal the concrete. Any of these help with keeping it clean (and anything stored in it).

Insulate the walls and get insulated doors if you want to retain heat in winter, and especially if you want to heat the garage(s).

Garagejournal.com has some interesting forums on these topics.
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      01-02-2020, 01:25 PM   #3
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I like the design a lot. Only thing i would think about is ceiling height. If you ever want to add a lift to say the single car garage, ceiling height will be your limiting factor. Even if you aren't a wrencher, a storage lift for a 4th car will need a decent ceiling height and it looks like there is nothing above the single car garage so just have a raised ceiling.
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      01-02-2020, 01:26 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
We hired an interior designer to help us with some projects we would like to do, one of which is to add a double garage to the house, without it looking like an obvious add on.

Currently, we have a two car garage, but the doors are not wide (wouldn't be able to fit a pickup in there if I ever wanted one) nor is the length there. And one of the garage bays is full anyways with lawn tractor, snow blower, bicycles and kid toys...so we really only have one garage. So I park outside.

I doubt the PDF will go through, so you may have to click the link

I've circled the addition on the second page. On the first page, it is more or less the highlighted items except those that say existing.

Basically, we'd be turning the garage bay we currently use for lawnmowers into a mudroom and a laundry room, with a wall in between. And our existing laundry room would then be converted into a full bathroom.

With a new two car garage with an entry from the house.

Any thoughts on the plans - see any flaws? The one thing my wife really wants is the mudroom, so we are going back to the designer and get them to redraw that part by taking space from the laundry room and putting it in the mudroom instead, just shifting the wall to make the mudroom larger and laundry smaller.

I don't plan on doing any wrenching in the garage, it is really storage, anyone built a garage and have some must have's or wishes that I should take into account. I would probably just have the garage either unfinished, or put a few sheets of drywall up. I doubt I'd insulate unless absolutely need to given its attached to the house.
The mudroom is a great idea if you live in a climate like we do.

I'd plan on adding lots of cabinets for storage. You can get them pretty economically at the big box home centers. I'm a borderline neat freak and I can't stand clutter so cabinets are the preferred tonic for that. This might necessitate expanding the footprint a couple feet.

Make use of the space overhead with an unfinished loft. Great for storing off-season stuff. And hiding shit you weren't supposed to buy. You'll have a ton of room up there with that steep roof. Have your architect show you how attic trusses could maximize the space.

Think about infrared heaters, if you want the option to warm it up a bit and the budget allows. They're way better than forced air and much more efficient.

Coat the floor with one of the latest coating systems. You won't regret it.

Put in a floor drain. And a hose faucet.
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      01-02-2020, 01:27 PM   #5
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We hired an interior designer
joe please tell me when you say "we" you mean your wife, please
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      01-02-2020, 01:38 PM   #6
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joe please tell me when you say "we" you mean your wife, please
Well, since its a joint account, "we" did hire said designer. I dragged my feet for a while, but ultimately I had to admit my wife's arguments were sound and she interviewed a few designers before settling on this one.

I'm playing the bad cop routine with the designer. My wife is the good cop. Little does the designer know that my wife is very budget conscious and if the designer tries to go over budget too much, the good cop is going to turn to steel and I'm going to look like the nice guy in comparison.
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      01-02-2020, 01:41 PM   #7
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Agree on the 220V outlets. I had two put in my garage. One during the build and one after when I had some other remodeling projects. The one 220V outlet is a 50A one which is for my MIG welder. The second is a 30A one for the 3000W electric heater I installed in the corner of ceiling of the garage. I also had a bunch of 120V outlets installed along one wall which didn't have dry wall. Wish I had done the same for the other wall.

Lighting. Where the old single bulb fixture the builder installed, I replaced it with a 4 bulb fluorescent fixture. But I wish I had another box on the same switched circuit installed above where the garage door would be in its raised position. Can't count the number of times where I have the garage door down the light turned on and wishing there was more light at the area where the garage door is.

I would consider having at least two Category 6A drops put in.

I know you said you won't want to wrench in the garage, but I had a slop sink installed after the house was built by a neighbor who is a plumber. I use that sink all the time.

Consider having enough room on the proposed addition on the sides of the garage where you have ample space to ensure the ability to put in work benches, racks, and other items. I have a 2 car garage and the layout of my garage is unique among the other model homes in my cul de sac. Many of my neighbors are envious of my garage because I have ample space at the back of the garage and at the sides. On one side I have my MIG welder on a cart stowed away along with my 30 gallon 6HP air compressor which is on it's own 120V 20A circuit. At the back of my garage I have a floor cabinet where I put parts, fluids, etc. Next to the cabinet I have the slop sink. Next to the slop sink is my work bench with wall cabinets I installed above it. And next to the work bench are my two roll away tool chests. On the other side of the garage, I have a rolling work table and have space to store my two sport bikes. With all of that, I can still get two cars into the garage with still some decent space between the cars.

You also might want to ensure the concrete floor is rated enough to support a lift if you ever decide to put one in.
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      01-02-2020, 01:44 PM   #8
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Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming. I take everything into consideration, floor drain and sealing is a good idea and one I hadn't really given any thought to before.

Ultimately, if we get a third car, I just plan on building a shed and putting all the lawn / snow equipment back there and that opens up another bay for the third car.
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      01-02-2020, 01:48 PM   #9
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Well, since its a joint account, "we" did hire said designer. I dragged my feet for a while, but ultimately I had to admit my wife's arguments were sound and she interviewed a few designers before settling on this one.

I'm playing the bad cop routine with the designer. My wife is the good cop. Little does the designer know that my wife is very budget conscious and if the designer tries to go over budget too much, the good cop is going to turn to steel and I'm going to look like the nice guy in comparison.
No shame from me for hiring an interior designer. I know what I like and what I don't like, but being able to come up with one or more designs out of nowhere is a special talent that I don't have, at least in the realm of houses.
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      01-02-2020, 01:48 PM   #10
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I would personally want the two garages adjoining. Could you bump out the corner between them to make a hallway?
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      01-02-2020, 01:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming. I take everything into consideration, floor drain and sealing is a good idea and one I hadn't really given any thought to before.

Ultimately, if we get a third car, I just plan on building a shed and putting all the lawn / snow equipment back there and that opens up another bay for the third car.
I don't know if you really need a floor drain. I did have my garage floor coated/painted. I made sure to have the virgin concrete pressure washed, dried, and then painted before I drove any car into the garage. I periodically spray down/wash the garage floor. I just bought a floor squeegee to push the water out. Just make sure the concrete is poured correctly with a slight incline to ensure any water doesn't run back towards the house.

ETA: Something minor. But you might also want to have pre-wire put in for your garage door opener and sensors. It bugs me to no end having the wiring for my garage door opener sitting out on top of the walls/ceilings. I've tried to make it as neat as possible but it's still there.
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      01-02-2020, 01:59 PM   #12
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Agree on the 220V outlets. I had two put in my garage. One during the build and one after when I had some other remodeling projects. The one 220V outlet is a 50A one which is for my MIG welder. The second is a 30A one for the 3000W electric heater I installed in the corner of ceiling of the garage. I also had a bunch of 120V outlets installed along one wall which didn't have dry wall. Wish I had done the same for the other wall.

Lighting. Where the old single bulb fixture the builder installed, I replaced it with a 4 bulb fluorescent fixture. But I wish I had another box on the same switched circuit installed above where the garage door would be in its raised position. Can't count the number of times where I have the garage door down the light turned on and wishing there was more light at the area where the garage door is.

I would consider having at least two Category 6A drops put in.

I know you said you won't want to wrench in the garage, but I had a slop sink installed after the house was built by a neighbor who is a plumber. I use that sink all the time.

Consider having enough room on the proposed addition on the sides of the garage where you have ample space to ensure the ability to put in work benches, racks, and other items. I have a 2 car garage and the layout of my garage is unique among the other model homes in my cul de sac. Many of my neighbors are envious of my garage because I have ample space at the back of the garage and at the sides. On one side I have my MIG welder on a cart stowed away along with my 30 gallon 6HP air compressor which is on it's own 120V 20A circuit. At the back of my garage I have a floor cabinet where I put parts, fluids, etc. Next to the cabinet I have the slop sink. Next to the slop sink is my work bench with wall cabinets I installed above it. And next to the work bench are my two roll away tool chests. On the other side of the garage, I have a rolling work table and have space to store my two sport bikes. With all of that, I can still get two cars into the garage with still some decent space between the cars.

You also might want to ensure the concrete floor is rated enough to support a lift if you ever decide to put one in.
The "slop sink" is a great idea. Had one in a house years ago, and loved it. Just being able to wash your hands after wrenching or mowing the lawn or cleaning something, saves a lot of mess from getting brought into the house.

I don't think you'll have to do anything special with the concrete slab. Normal concrete is usually 3500 psi strength. I didn't do anything special with the slab in my pole barn, and I've had my 6000-pound Ford Excursion up on the lift dozens of times. Nothing wrong with beefing it up a bit, though, if it makes you feel safer.
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      01-02-2020, 02:44 PM   #13
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All great ideas as mentioned.. but I'm surprised that when mentioning a lift.. you guys should also make sure that the concrete slab itself is 4" thick or more. The minimum recommended thickness is 4" to mount a lift. When I bought my place I did manage to find the builder and he said it is 4" at the back and tapers down to the front, so there's no way it's "enough" for a lift. Also drains in the garage are against code/the law where I am... and as the garage has settled the pitch is not enough for me. I had to buy garage mats for the winter because the ice/snow can generate a TON of water (vs just rain water in the summer). These are basically large mats with edges so it doesn't let water drain to other parts of the garage when the slope isn't perfect (and most likely it will change as the concrete etc settles over time). As many electrical plugs as possible.. depending on how you arrange things you'll run out fast. Definitely agree on lighting, even having a couple of different zones to turn on. I know this is an aesthetics point of view, but I think the double 9ft doors suck compared to a single door. I believe I might have 9ft wide doors, but the largest thing I get in is the minivan, and it seems VERY tight.. If I had a single door you can err a little in each direction vs learning how to replace side mirrors when others hit them (thankfully not me yet).

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      01-02-2020, 03:12 PM   #14
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All great ideas as mentioned.. but I'm surprised that when mentioning a lift.. you guys should also make sure that the concrete slab itself is 4" thick or more. The minimum recommended thickness is 4" to mount a lift. When I bought my place I did manage to find the builder and he said it is 4" at the back and tapers down to the front, so there's no way it's "enough" for a lift. Also drains in the garage are against code/the law where I am... and as the garage has settled the pitch is not enough for me. I had to buy garage mats for the winter because the ice/snow can generate a TON of water (vs just rain water in the summer). These are basically large mats with edges so it doesn't let water drain to other parts of the garage when the slope isn't perfect (and most likely it will change as the concrete etc settles over time). As many electrical plugs as possible.. depending on how you arrange things you'll run out fast. Definitely agree on lighting, even having a couple of different zones to turn on. I know this is an aesthetics point of view, but I think the double 9ft doors suck compared to a single door. I believe I might have 9ft wide doors, but the largest thing I get in is the minivan, and it seems VERY tight.. If I had a single door you can err a little in each direction vs learning how to replace side mirrors when others hit them (thankfully not me yet).
Jeez...maybe I should start wearing a hard hat when I'm under the car.
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      01-02-2020, 03:24 PM   #15
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The drawing looks great but what are the odds of blending it into the existing structure? Odds are the materials may not match and it may drive you crazy. What about extending the garage back and make it large enough for four vehicles? It may be overkill and take too much of the backyard but may be worth considering.
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      01-02-2020, 03:33 PM   #16
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What's the return on this? Will the garage really add enough value to the house to make the construction worthwhile?
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      01-02-2020, 03:46 PM   #17
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I've read none of this but I'm pretty confident that the answer involves a lift.
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      01-02-2020, 03:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
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The drawing looks great but what are the odds of blending it into the existing structure? Odds are the materials may not match and it may drive you crazy. What about extending the garage back and make it large enough for four vehicles? It may be overkill and take too much of the backyard but may be worth considering.
I say this with a smile, but it must blend in pretty well, because the portion you see that you are suggesting to extend back is actually the proposed addition (the two bay). The single bay in the pictures is part of the existing structure, you don't see the other bay I mentioned because it became the mudroom / laundry.

So that's encouraging to me. They are going to use materials to match, be stone on bottom and stucco, both of which are materials used on the existing structure.
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      01-02-2020, 03:52 PM   #19
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What's the return on this? Will the garage really add enough value to the house to make the construction worthwhile?
No, the ROI sucks in terms of numbers.

It is the intangible value that delivers - the value of pulling away without having to spend 5-10 minutes attempting to clean all the snow off the car and chip away at the ice before driving off. And it is a little safer from trees falling.

This is going to be our forever house unless we go bankrupt. Or the street changes for the worse. So we might as well build now and get the enjoyment out of it, rather than worrying about resale. On resale, it might add 60-80 cents on the dollar, depending on the value to the buyer. Since the house is already worth over a million, the $200K ish we spend on renos isn't going to break a buyer's decision I don't think. Especially in the time frame we expect to sell which won't be for probably 30+ years.
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      01-02-2020, 03:54 PM   #20
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What's the return on this? Will the garage really add enough value to the house to make the construction worthwhile?
It'll definitely add resale value. It'll also add livability value, which is just as important if you're going to live in it for a while. Turn off the "Flip This Crib" reality TV and go tidy up your garage.
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      01-02-2020, 06:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
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The drawing looks great but what are the odds of blending it into the existing structure? Odds are the materials may not match and it may drive you crazy. What about extending the garage back and make it large enough for four vehicles? It may be overkill and take too much of the backyard but may be worth considering.
A good GC will make it blend in as though the addition was always part of the initial build. The GC I secured put on an addition to my primary home. I wanted a first floor office with entrances from the formal dining room and the morning/sun room. But doing this would also require the poured concrete foundation walls to be extended which provided another room off the existing basement. My contractor was able to match the siding, roof shingles, and paint exactly along with the brick pattern my original builder had for the poured concrete walls. People are surprised when I tell them that part of the house is an addition.
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      01-02-2020, 06:59 PM   #22
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No, the ROI sucks in terms of numbers.

It is the intangible value that delivers - the value of pulling away without having to spend 5-10 minutes attempting to clean all the snow off the car and chip away at the ice before driving off. And it is a little safer from trees falling.

This is going to be our forever house unless we go bankrupt. Or the street changes for the worse. So we might as well build now and get the enjoyment out of it, rather than worrying about resale. On resale, it might add 60-80 cents on the dollar, depending on the value to the buyer. Since the house is already worth over a million, the $200K ish we spend on renos isn't going to break a buyer's decision I don't think. Especially in the time frame we expect to sell which won't be for probably 30+ years.
I know all about sucky ROI for certain "improvements" to a home. I have three gas fireplaces in my home. The most expensive of them is in my bedroom where it required new framing, a bump out to the exterior wall to encompass the fireplace, roof extension, and new gas line to be run. But I have my player player/grotto bedroom.
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