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      01-02-2020, 03:02 PM   #1
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CNBC: Why BMW Is No Longer The Leader In Luxury Sales

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      01-02-2020, 03:22 PM   #2
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It is hard to remain on top when everyone has been spending lots of money chasing you for the past 25-30 years. Mostly Japan and other European car companies. Detroit has never seriously threatened to over take BMW , Mercedes and others. Competition is ultimately a good thing
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      01-02-2020, 03:33 PM   #3
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I think it's a matter of time until bmw sales will go down. i am a bmw fan But they are not making the best cars as they used to a few generation ago. The design is not as good as Mercedes or audi, the interior design is dull. Bmw lost it from e46 and e39 . These were the last bmws that were very desirable .
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      01-02-2020, 04:19 PM   #4
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CNBC videos are typically good overall but miss out on some details and lack substance in areas. This was no different.

I definitely think the F-chassis vehicles became stale from a styling/design standpoint. The 3-series and X5 were the worst offenders with downright lazy redesigns. Not having a full-sized GLS competitor hurt too. During this period BMW's driving dynamics took a nosedive but that only helped sales. BMW has launched a strong product offensive over the past couple years that have thrust them back to being the segment leaders, especially the SAVs. The styling, interior design, and tech are pretty strong on all their G-chassis models.

Lagging behind the EV game was a legitimate point. But what the video didn't tell you is how poor Audi's EV sales have been. Aside from Tesla the numbers show that consumers aren't ready for EVs.

It was a fair point for that guy to mention how much larger Merc's product portfolio is relative to BMW's. But it doesn't tell the whole story. After finally ditching Chrysler, Mercedes launched a very strong product offensive in the mid-2010s with very innovative tech and interior design.
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      01-02-2020, 04:21 PM   #5
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I always have a problem with such brands being labeled as "luxury" brands. Sure, BMW's cost a premium because it is a luxury brand, but you are ultimately paying for a better handling vehicle.

I was born in the states, but being of European descent, I was brought up with the mindset that European brands, although pricier, are of better quality. Although our world is changing, I still believe this is relatively true. Just go to Europe and taste the food for gods sake.

Infuriating how CNBC follows the quintessential American tropes of your paying for a luxury vehicle when you are in essence, paying for better engineering.

If you don't have " f you" money and are buying these cars just for the badge or to keep up with the joneses, your an idiot.
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      01-02-2020, 05:10 PM   #6
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How much more innovation do you want in cars tho?? I think we've maxed out what we can do, autonomous driving, sensors, remote features, all you can really do is keep improving the experience by constant tweaks and refreshes.. this goes for all automakers there's nothing new they can put in cars anymore that's gonna be revolutionary and set one apart from the other, everyone's just caught up and that's the reality.... That's where electric cars come in sadly that's the future and we just gotta wait to see what weird tech these companies are gonna jam into them and see if any brand sticks out..
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      01-02-2020, 06:51 PM   #7
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I think BMW is churning out new models with new tech in an impressive pace. SUVs are were it’s at today and BMW has a fresh fleet across the board.

What boggles my mind is that Toyota/Lexus is still in business...their luxury SUV fleet is beyond reprehensible at this point and that buyers aren’t in a full out strike is a mystery.

Lx - 13years old
Gx- 11 years old
Land Cruiser 13 years old
Sequoia- 13 years old

The 4Runner carries a near luxury price tag and is 11 years old with halogen lights and a 5speed.

Now that is lack of innovation towards consumers.
BMW is doing just fine in comparison.

Last edited by solstice; 01-02-2020 at 06:58 PM..
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      01-02-2020, 07:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak View Post
I always have a problem with such brands being labeled as "luxury" brands. Sure, BMW's cost a premium because it is a luxury brand, but you are ultimately paying for a better handling vehicle.

I was born in the states, but being of European descent, I was brought up with the mindset that European brands, although pricier, are of better quality. Although our world is changing, I still believe this is relatively true. Just go to Europe and taste the food for gods sake.

Infuriating how CNBC follows the quintessential American tropes of your paying for a luxury vehicle when you are in essence, paying for better engineering.

If you don't have " f you" money and are buying these cars just for the badge or to keep up with the joneses, your an idiot.
*you're
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      01-02-2020, 07:03 PM   #9
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Toyota has loyal customers who will not consider any other brand. Their primary metric for purchase is reliability and Toyota is still number one in that regard.
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      01-02-2020, 07:03 PM   #10
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Most of the "problems" they mentioned are not true.

We will see soon, but I think that BMW already reclaimed the title in 2019. Last year was very successful for BMW, they managed to increase sales despite most of the decline of the overall car market.

They have no clue what they are talking about, they praised Mercedes, yet, their numbers are now down. They mentioned Audi and Merc for electric models, but both of them recently decided to push back launches of their electric models in the US due to the lack of interest. In the, BMW was right not to rush. They will have the EVs ready in time no worry about that, the moment they become profitable, they will start selling them. They are just not interested in burning money like some others, that's all..

People keep forgetting that i8 is technologically way more advanced and complex car than any EV, it combines two state of the art cars in one. So, no worries for technology either, it is ready since a long time...
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      01-02-2020, 07:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I think BMW is churning out new models with new tech in an impressive pace. SUVs are were itís at today and BMW has a fresh fleet across the board.

What boggles my mind is that Toyota/Lexus is still in business...their luxury SUV fleet is beyond reprehensible at this point and that buyers arenít in a full out strike is a mystery.

Lx - 13years old
Gx- 11 years old
Land Cruiser 13 years old
Sequoia- 13 years old

The 4Runner carries a near luxury price tag and is 11 years old with halogen lights and a 5speed.

Now that is lack of innovation towards consumers.
BMW is doing just fine in comparison.
B/c obviously all Americans don't share the same interests. Not everyones going to flock to BMW or Mercedes even if they were same price as a Toyota. Many people love the 4Runner for it's rugged looks and for the fact that it's not luxurious. My neighbor bought a new Land Cruiser which start close to 90k. She got rid of her Range Rover for it. I asked her why and she said it would last much longer and had nicer driving position. Personally, it's not a car I would ever buy for that much money especially when it just looks like a bigger highlander for more than twice the price.
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      01-02-2020, 07:46 PM   #12
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CNBC makes content for investors, so they are always going to present the bull thesis AND the bear thesis. I think iDrive 7.0 and the latest engines/features are about as innovative as you can get for a luxury car and you would want to pay attention to the BMW sales figures to see how successful they have been. Note that October and November sales have shown a ramp up in sales after a slump as they have phased out aging platforms.

I don't have any automotive stock in my portfolio, and not sure that I want any, but my guess is you could park your money in BMWYY safely in the short term and collect some respectable dividends in 2020. Here's some due dilligence:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/426...pean-companies
https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/...end-yield.aspx
https://seekingalpha.com/article/430...deliver-growth

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      01-02-2020, 08:03 PM   #13
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A challenge for BMW is that buyer tastes are moving away from what BMW was good at.
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      01-02-2020, 08:04 PM   #14
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Video seems to be a general consensus of what most members say on this forum.

Merc having a variety of offerings in their portfolio does aide in the sales race against BMW. Hence BMW playing catch up with the 2 series GC.

BMW has somewhat redeemed theirselves with the design aspect from the dull F Generation. Exterior wise the new 3, X5, & 8 are some of the best looking in their segments. Interior wise is subjective but you can tell they stick to their driver focused/ race like theme. And visually it does look cleaner and sleeker than most.

EV is definitely something they may be lacking at but neither Merc or Audi has been doing successful either. The iNext/i5 does have a lot to live up to when it comes out given the competition but speaking with my SA, it might be a hit. Mentioned it was nothing like the offerings from anybody on the road today and that's the innovation we need from BMW now.
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      01-02-2020, 08:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
A challenge for BMW is that buyer tastes are moving away from what BMW was good at.
The "bar" has been reached by other automakers like Alfa, Merc, & some say Genesis. Unless that bar is raised, that's probably going to continue to happen.
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      01-02-2020, 09:07 PM   #16
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Toyota has loyal customers who will not consider any other brand. Their primary metric for purchase is reliability and Toyota is still number one in that regard.
Agreed but Toyota can make reliable and modern cars instead of shamelessly milking their models and customer loyalty in absurdum.

But hey as long as the customers allow for it they will, much cheaper to just keep building the same old woefully outdated cars.

13 years old, think about that for a minute. If you are 16 today and buy one of these, you are paying 2020 money for a car designed before you were born...
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      01-02-2020, 10:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Agreed but Toyota can make reliable and modern cars instead of shamelessly milking their models and customer loyalty in absurdum.

But hey as long as the customers allow for it they will, much cheaper to just keep building the same old woefully outdated cars.

13 years old, think about that for a minute. If you are 16 today and buy one of these, you are paying 2020 money for a car designed before you were born...
Being a former lexus owner, I can understand why people prefer them over the German brands. Aside from the bullet-proof reliability, there's a level of fit and finish and comfort that the German brands can't compete with at the same price point. You have to really get up into the higher priced German models to get that same level of comfort.

So if you take a look at the type of vehicles typically associated with comfort, i.e. SUV's, Lexus dominates in that segment because they cater to what the typical SUV driver looks for. Most SUV drivers couldn't care less about performance or advanced technology. They want a vehicle that is comfortable, quiet, and reliable at a reasonable price.

On the opposite end of that spectrum, if you look at compact/mid-size sport sedans, Lexus struggles, because buyers from that segment are more inclined to look for performance and technology. Although lexus has made strides in the performance category (relative to their older models), the technology is just not up to par yet, and that hearkens back their pursuit of being at the top of reliability charts. The more tech you pack into a car, the greater probability for things to go wrong.
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      01-02-2020, 10:32 PM   #18
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Being a former lexus owner, I can understand why people prefer them over the German brands. Aside from the bullet-proof reliability, there's a level of fit and finish and comfort that the German brands can't compete with at the same price point. You have to really get up into the higher priced German models to get that same level of comfort.

So if you take a look at the type of vehicles typically associated with comfort, i.e. SUV's, Lexus dominates in that segment because they cater to what the typical SUV driver looks for. Most SUV drivers couldn't care less about performance or advanced technology. They want a vehicle that is comfortable, quiet, and reliable at a reasonable price.

On the opposite end of that spectrum, if you look at compact/mid-size sport sedans, Lexus struggles, because buyers from that segment are more inclined to look for performance and technology. Although lexus has made strides in the performance category (relative to their older models), the technology is just not up to par yet, and that hearkens back their pursuit of being at the top of reliability charts. The more tech you pack into a car, the greater probability for things to go wrong.
There’s no excuse for a company like Lexus to build such slow, heavy, thirsty and poor handling cars today. There’s more to the strive for perfection in a car than reliability, much, much more and these dinosaurs just aren’t cutting it in 2020.
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      01-02-2020, 10:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Thereís no excuse for a company like Lexus to build such slow, heavy, thirsty and poor handling cars today. Thereís more to the strive for perfection in a car than reliability, much, much more and these dinosaurs just arenít cutting it in 2020.
I agree with you, but there's a reason Lexus dominates the luxury SUV market, and it's because they've found what appeals to the masses. I'm willing to bet majority of that clientele barely knows how to use a standard cruise control, let alone a semi-autonomous system that you find in a BMW or Mercedes. All they care about is comfort, reliability, and price. And if something has worked so well for Lexus for so many years, they're simply doing what any manufacturer would do.... not mess with success and continue milking the cash cow.
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      01-03-2020, 12:12 AM   #20
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What a clickbait article. The G20 330i can hit 0-60 mph in 5.1 seconds all while delivering 42mpg cruising at 75mph. Name one sedan from any manufacturer that can even come close to those numbers at any price point. If thatís not innovation then what is ?
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      01-03-2020, 04:47 AM   #21
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While I agree that they are a day late with their tech packages, the Land Cruiser and 4Runner are completely different animals with the 4R being price competitive compared to the latest Jeeps and the LC is designed / built as a 250K mile vehicle. There IS a reason why everyone from the UN to ISIS drives them.

Just like you can’t really understand the appeal of a BMW until you accelerate into a turn, you also can’t understand the LC / 4R until you take that turn off the pavement.
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      01-03-2020, 05:50 AM   #22
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Bmw is Like Apple now. They dont bring nothing new to the Market, lost Their way. I had e46, e39,e53 and i was So proud because they were the best in class.
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