[RAUDERRIPPER]

Originally Posted by secretariat

I don't know about the 99.9%. The pizza delivery guy asked me if that is the X5M and my vehicle is debadged.

And someone asked me if my x5mc was a x7, wouldn't put too much focus from a layman's comments

[iconoclast]

Agreed. When I purchased a B7 RS4 when it debuted someone at the car wash asked me if it was the new M3.

[MOTOP]

“Much ado about nothing” as WS used to say long time ago.

[bobbis1]

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/BMW_2...uspension.html

Spent 5 mins on this site which shows parts + cross usage-

Rear Knuckles/struts/wheel bearings/most f+r suspension arms/steering/rear diff/drive shaft are all unique parts to x5m & comp I’m sure there are others too but didn’t want to hit every one . The front diff/active roll seem to cross with m50 & other models.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by bobbis1

https://parts.bmwnorthwest.com/BMW_2...uspension.html

Spent 5 mins on this site which shows parts + cross usage-

Rear Knuckles/struts/wheel bearings/most f+r suspension arms/steering/rear diff/drive shaft are all unique parts to x5m & comp I’m sure there are others too but didn’t want to hit every one . The front diff/active roll seem to cross with m50 & other models.

Yeah, I looked up the front left control arm (amongst others) on both and the M is a different part num that's $75 more, so I think we can consider this one validated: different parts.

[bobbis1]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Yeah, I looked up the front left control arm (amongst others) on both and the M is a different part num that's $75 more, so I think we can consider this one validated: different parts.

I think that’s a bit of an understatement, 80%+ of the parts on that page that are not fasteners or gaskets are diff/unique to either X5m or just M cars. With exception of front knuckles, tie rods, front diff, front drive shafts, and dynamic stabilizers Everything is different vs m50i.

A better question might be does an m branded, separate part number rear diff or control arm have a meaningful enough feel improvement to warrant the extra $.

[scotchy]

Gruss. Have you driven the damn cars yet? lol.

I had some time to kill today so I stopped in at the dealership we got our X5 from and my sales guy gave me his X6MC to take out.

I've put just shy of 30,000km on our 2020 X5 M50i with DHP over the last 14ish months so I'm pretty in tune with how the car drives. I wasn't expecting the difference in driving the 2 to be as huge as it is.

Does the "true" M feel faster? Not hugely noticeable, the M50i is quick.

However...even in comfort or normal settings, the X6M is a firmer ride than the 50 in sport plus. Everything about the driving feel is different.
Throttle response is better.
Brakes are better.
Very little body roll and none of the floaty feeling I complain about with the 50. It hides its weight surprisingly well.
Steering is much heavier and that combined with the firmer suspension gives the feeling of being way more connected to the road than the M50i does. (While it handles well for a 5000+lb car, it doesn't feel remotely connected imo)

The M feels more like a sports car while the M50i feels like a fast cruiser.
That and it just looks better, in and out.

Personally, even if the parts were mostly the same, the "true" M would be my pick (and may be soon). I loved the feel of driving a smaller SUV like the GLC43/63's that I've had and driven, and thought I'd have to go back to something smaller again to have that. The X6MC gave that. (I'm assuming the X5MC is almost the same)
If you love the way your M4 drives it'll likely be your choice too.

The only thing (other than comfort if that's what you're after) my 50i has that I personally would want that the M doesn't is some crackles and pops when letting off the gas. The M had none. It seems a bit louder overall, but the "fake sound" piped through the speakers was more pronounced. Either way both are pretty quiet.

EDIT: I may have missed it looking at you differences post but are the actual shocks/struts/springs the same in both the M50i and X5M??

[jphcbpa]

Originally Posted by scotchy

Gruss. Have you driven the damn cars yet? lol.

I had some time to kill today so I stopped in at the dealership we got our X5 from and my sales guy gave me his X6MC to take out.

I've put just shy of 30,000km on our 2020 X5 M50i with DHP over the last 14ish months so I'm pretty in tune with how the car drives. I wasn't expecting the difference in driving the 2 to be as huge as it is.

Does the "true" M feel faster? Not hugely noticeable, the M50i is quick.

However...even in comfort or normal settings, the X6M is a firmer ride than the 50 in sport plus. Everything about the driving feel is different.
Throttle response is better.
Brakes are better.
Very little body roll and none of the floaty feeling I complain about with the 50. It hides its weight surprisingly well.
Steering is much heavier and that combined with the firmer suspension gives the feeling of being way more connected to the road than the M50i does. (While it handles well for a 5000+lb car, it doesn't feel remotely connected imo)

The M feels more like a sports car while the M50i feels like a fast cruiser.
That and it just looks better, in and out.

Personally, even if the parts were mostly the same, the "true" M would be my pick (and may be soon). I loved the feel of driving a smaller SUV like the GLC43/63's that I've had and driven, and thought I'd have to go back to something smaller again to have that. The X6MC gave that. (I'm assuming the X5MC is almost the same)
If you love the way your M4 drives it'll likely be your choice too.

The only thing (other than comfort if that's what you're after) my 50i has that I personally would want that the M doesn't is some crackles and pops when letting off the gas. The M had none. It seems a bit louder overall, but the "fake sound" piped through the speakers was more pronounced. Either way both are pretty quiet.

Debating between $102k M50i and non comp M at $118k. Not that much price difference for getting an M.

[scotchy]

Originally Posted by jphcbpa

Debating between $102k M50i and non comp M at $118k. Not that much price difference for getting an M.

Not at all. I'm not sure where you are, in Canada on a lease it makes a big difference in your monthly cost, but if purchasing it's not a big gap.

[-Vanguard-]

The X6M has a completely different feel just in terms of agility and eagerness.

The M50i is tuned to be refined and a daily luxury vehicle.

The X5/X6M is tuned to be a caged beast waiting for you to open the door. The M's have this anxiety attuned to them where the engine and suspension always want to go fast.

Drive both back to back and the difference really is night and day. One feels like a fast daily driver while the other truly feels like a race car.

[bobbis1]

Originally Posted by scotchy

EDIT: I may have missed it looking at you differences post but are the actual shocks/struts/springs the same in both the M50i and X5M??

I looked at it a while ago- I think he was just using the bmw website description- the only parts that are carried over are the active roll bars and the front diff- everything else is a custom part- transmission/drive shaft/rear diff are shared w other m cars M5/etc but not m50i. The suspension is COMPLETELY different.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by -Vanguard-

The X6M has a completely different feel just in terms of agility and eagerness.

The M50i is tuned to be refined and a daily luxury vehicle.

The X5/X6M is tuned to be a caged beast waiting for you to open the door. The M's have this anxiety attuned to them where the engine and suspension always want to go fast.

Drive both back to back and the difference really is night and day. One feels like a fast daily driver while the other truly feels like a race car.

This..... Once you've driven non Ms and Ms you get why on paper they might seem similar but in actuality they feel like different cars.

For me even in the full M I prefer the engine settings in sport+ because I want to be in control of the car. I want instant response tide directly to my right foot. When i test drove the M50i even in sport + it reminded me of how comfort mode feels like in the X5M.

[-Vanguard-]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

This..... Once you've driven non Ms and Ms you get why on paper they might seem similar but in actuality they feel like different cars.

For me even in the full M I prefer the engine settings in sport+ because I want to be in control of the car. I want instant response tide directly to my right foot. When i test drove the M50i even in sport + it reminded me of how comfort mode feels like in the X5M.

Yep, I picked up my X6MC last week and test drove a beautiful dravit gray X6 M50i during the same visit. They don't feel even remotely similar, not the engine, not the suspension, not the response and not the seats.

This isn't a bad thing...its options. Options are good. Want a fast a hell luxury suv? Get the M50i. Want a fire breathing german race suv and the status of a real M car? Get the X6M.

Status is important too...Rolex, Omega, AP etc have built empires on selling status. A casio will tell the time better than a Rolex, as quartz is more accurate than even the best mechanical movements and it will have many more other features. If I offer you a free Rolex or casio, im sure you would take the Rolex. Wearing a rolex feels...special. Same with the X6M...driving it regardless of how much better/different than the X6 M50i is, just feels more special. If Rolex can do it, BMW can sure do it too and they do.

[ed4]

The driving dynamics shared here, although are all supremely important, are missing the point of the OP

It seemed the OP's intent was to do a distant apples-to-apples comparison on paper

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by ed4

It seemed the OP's intent was to do a distant apples-to-apples comparison on paper

Is that what it seemed like to you Ed? Dang, because I thought I was pretty specific:

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Yeah so I keep reading "ZOMG X5M is so much better bro!" posts, but yet nobody can detail why.

"different parts" - really? Where is that documented?

FYI "where is it documented" means "please share or link the tech docs where the part differences are documented"

That said, you do make a good point that not everyone has the same level of literacy.

Originally Posted by scotchy

Gruss. Have you driven the damn cars yet? lol.

I have!

I'm waiting to see what happens with:

▸ The 2022 BMW X5 models & options availability (and prices / ADMs)
▸ The new X5M Competition models ... out in 2022 or 2023? (ynguldyn announced it in March)
▸ The 2022 AMG GLE 63s ... and maybe the Macan or Cayenne

Right now my pick would be the X5M non-comp like jphcbpa ... but depending on availability an MSRP discount I could easily go with the GLE.

The X5M is slightly faster & has the better steering feel and cornering ability - and surprisingly the ride is better - but I like the Benz interior & electronics better and it's way more fun in around-town driving ... that AMG V8 sound just kicks ass and it's ALWAYS there ... The X5M was far more docile around town & not as much fun, but on a canyon road it lights up way more than the GLE - the X5M almost feels like M car whereas the GLE feels capable but fat.

The other odd thing is GLE is louder on the freeway which I think is because Benz has some type of opening to get the real engine noise in versus the X5M's fake noise via the speakers.

That's the other thing with that fake X5M noise - inside it sounds *EXACTLY* like my last 2 M4s, i.e., the engine noise via the speakers is the exact same (which I disabled on those - but had to re-enable to return) ... so maybe only for people that owned M4s that's weird and a little annoying.

Prices are crazy now so it's gonna be a lot of emails and probably flying somewhere to buy it, which means that will probably make the decision for me.

It's a toss up between the GLE's daily around town fun (and the MB's premium Burmester is stellar) and the X5m's excellet canyon carving capability (and quieter freeway ride), which i'd only do occasionally.


I'm definitely not paying MSRP or more, so I'm willing to wait until I can get the right deal.

[arlind94]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Is that what it seemed like to you Ed? Dang, because I thought I was pretty specific:

FYI "where is it documented" means "please share or [COLOR="blue"]link[/COLOR] the tech docs where the part differences are documented"

That said, you do make a good point that not everyone has the same level of literacy.

I have!

I'm waiting to see what happens with:

▸ The 2022 BMW X5 models & options availability (and prices / ADMs)
▸ [COLOR="Blue"]The new X5M Competition models[/COLOR] ... out in 2022 or 2023? (ynguldyn announced it in March)
▸ The 2022 AMG GLE 63s ... and maybe the Macan or Cayenne

Right now my pick would be the X5M non-comp like jphcbpa ... but depending on availability an MSRP discount I could easily go with the GLE.

The X5M is slightly faster & has the better steering feel and cornering ability - and surprisingly the ride is better - but I like the Benz interior & electronics better and it's way more fun in around-town driving ... that AMG V8 sound just kicks ass and it's ALWAYS there ... The X5M was far more docile around town & not as much fun, but on a canyon road it lights up way more than the GLE - the X5M almost feels like M car whereas the GLE feels capable but fat.

The other odd thing is GLE is louder on the freeway which I think is because Benz has some type of opening to get the real engine noise in versus the X5M's fake noise via the speakers.

That's the other thing with that fake X5M noise - inside it sounds *EXACTLY* like my last 2 M4s, i.e., the engine noise via the speakers is the exact same (which I disabled on those - but had to re-enable to return) ... so maybe only for people that owned M4s that's weird and a little annoying.

Prices are crazy now so it's gonna be a lot of emails and probably flying somewhere to buy it, which means that will probably make the decision for me.

It's a toss up between the GLE's daily around town fun (and the MB's premium Burmester is stellar) and the X5m's excellet canyon carving capability (and quieter freeway ride), which i'd only do occasionally.


I'm definitely not paying MSRP or more, so I'm willing to wait until I can get the right deal.

If you're waiting for a nice discount on the GLE, you'll probably be waiting a long time. Benz isn't competitive like BMW.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

That's the other thing with that fake X5M noise - inside it sounds *EXACTLY* like my last 2 M4s, i.e., the engine noise via the speakers is the exact same (which I disabled on those - but had to re-enable to return) ... so maybe only for people that owned M4s that's weird and a little annoying.

That’s weird because I came from a F80 comp M3 also with an AKra system like my X5MC and they sound very different inside and out. Not even close. X5M sounds way better both fake noise and real.

I hated how the F8X car sounded but all the kids love them. “Pops and bangs” stupidest trend since altezza lights lol

Alan

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

That’s weird because I came from a F80 comp M3 also with an AKra system like my X5MC and they sound very different inside and out. Not even close. X5M sounds way better both fake noise and real.

Did you disable the active sound module? You can code it out and/or just disconnect it in the trunk - I went the latter route. If so, yeah, then your F80 should sound like the I6 w/ Akra it is and not the V8. And if your akra was loud enough (depending on cats, DPs, etc), then you'd hear that over the ASD.

Overall this isn't a mystery - they sound the same inside because it's the same module and anyone who's ever recorded the F8x exhaust sound outside vs inside w/ASD knows that difference, it's not even close. (in the beginning - 2014 - it was a big controversy if it was even there and, if so, how loud so I have tapes )

BMW ASD = BMW ASD, it's the same in all of the M cars I've ever test driven for years, it's just now they allow you to configure it via iDrive to "reduced" but I still just shut it off by coding it out or disconnecting it if it's possible.

Unfortunately nothing sounds like the E9x that thing was a gawddamned screaming banshee from hell at 8500. What a work of art that was ... and all you had to do was the $80 ECM mod on the stock exhaust to get the best sound IMO.

The GLE 63 is close though, but the V8 drama means more freeway road noise (as it's louder than the X5M, the reverse of the lesser models where the MBs are quieter).

[bobbis1]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

BMW ASD = BMW ASD, it's the same in all of the M cars I've ever test driven for years, it's just now they allow you to configure it via iDrive to "reduced" but I still just shut it off by coding it out or disconnecting it if it's possible.

I thot it was microphones in the engine bay so is specific to your car but still “fake”

[jokerswld34]

Originally Posted by bobbis1

I thot it was microphones in the engine bay so is specific to your car but still “fake”

It is a microphone. Once I installed catted DPs, the sound changed quite a bit coming thru the speakers.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by bobbis1

I thot it was microphones in the engine bay so is specific to your car but still “fake”

Nope, it's a DSP box in the trunk that takes "signals" from the engine; i.e., metrics like torque, throttle, RPM, etc and then the DSP box generates a fake sound output via your speakers.

A microphone would transmit anything it picked up including road noise, crowd noise, sirens, horns, etc and would/could be damped due to snow, rain, etc so the pickup would be too unreliable; further a microphone is vulnerable to damage and/or failure and could broadcast horrific sounds into the cabin with no way to shut it off.

The sound has to be consistent & reliable (and cheap) so it's generated (100% synthetic) based on what the car is doing. Any difference heard is due to real sound getting in, not what the DSP is generating.

The DSP box is in the trunk and you can disconnect it - the lack of fake sound is glorious. This was extensively researched & litigated in 2015 in the M4 forum.


The GLE 63 is interesting because with the exhaust noise you get road noise, but yet the cabin is still quiet - it's hard to explain ... they've done something where you hear the exhaust, but it also lets in road noise (like you hear freeway joints even when you don't feel them), but you can also hear the passenger fine. For example, I rent a lot of cars and on a, say, GMC Acadia or Mazda CX-9, you get a lot of road noise period, i.e., you hear everything...

Not so on GLE and the X5M is quietest of all. The downside of the X5M is it's just too quiet for me - that has some benefits and it's not a dealkiller but I like to hear the intake & exhaust noise, but have zero tolerance for fake noise. It's the first thing I kill on a BMW.

Side note: anyone looking for an awesome-to-drive cheap SUV, Mazda. The engineers tuned the fuck out of that thing - it's getting every last drop of performance out of what it is. If you can't have fun driving the Mazda you don't like driving and/or are a shitty driver.

[bobbis1]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Nope, it's a DSP box in the trunk that takes "signals" from the engine; i.e., metrics like torque, throttle, RPM, etc and then the DSP box generates a fake sound output via your speakers.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1640356&d=1497407906

I don’t see anything abt a microphone in here