[F87source]

Originally Posted by minn19

Maybe RB should become a real top team and develop their own engine. Instead of going from a couple of different manufacturers and blaming them for performance shortfalls. Otherwise this is just more

RB will be developing their own engines and I am very excited to see what they do.


But like I said before redbull has been stagnant ever since 2013 (their last really cool break through was the exhaust blown diffuser stuff) in regards to massive game changing engineering developments, ever since then they have only been improving their car slowly but surely and nothing more. But they have not been like mercedes who constantly introduce ground breaking innovations. Like tbh I think the coolest thing to come from newey so far is the aston martin valkyre with the venturi tunnels under the car and f1 inspired suspension.


Literally if the regulations didn't hold back merecedes we would likely have seen lap records that would be near impossible to ever break again with the new aero concept cars.

Hopefully redbull can start to make cool things again next year, I do enjoy seeing engineering in action.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by F87source

RB will be developing their own engines and I am very excited to see what they do.


But like I said before redbull has been stagnant ever since 2013 (their last really cool break through was the exhaust blown diffuser stuff) in regards to massive game changing engineering developments, ever since then they have only been improving their car slowly but surely and nothing more. But they have not been like mercedes who constantly introduce ground breaking innovations. Like tbh I think the coolest thing to come from newey so far is the aston martin valkyre with the venturi tunnels under the car and f1 inspired suspension.


Literally if the regulations didn't hold back merecedes we would likely have seen lap records that would be near impossible to ever break again with the new aero concept cars.

Hopefully redbull can start to make cool things again next year, I do enjoy seeing engineering in action.

What are they doing with all that money then? Helping cover development cost for Renault and now Honda’s PUs? Don’t they spend in the simile neighborhood as MB?

I’m fuzzy on that, are they developing their own or buying Honda’s PU essentially and using that as their engine going forward?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by minn19

What are they doing with all that money then? Helping cover development cost for Renault and now Honda’s PUs? Don’t they spend in the simile neighborhood as MB?

I’m fuzzy on that, are they developing their own or buying Honda’s PU essentially and using that as their engine going forward?

I have no idea what they do with that money, but yes they spend dang near as much as merc. It is merc, ferrari, and redbull who are the big money burning pits in f1. IIRC mercedes was reported to spend half a billion usd per year on f1. I can't believe diamler fronted all that cost by themselves for so long, now it is a bit less since they sold 1/3 of their stake to ineos, and the budget cap is 1/4 of what they used to spend.


So RB bought all of Honda's technology to their f1 pu, they will be designing and engineering their own engines in the years to come (post engine freeze). However for 2022-2025 or 2026 there is an engine freeze in place to help redbull prepare to make their own engines. This means the engines introduced next year will be the engines that are locked in for the next couple years - zero development or spec changes. So every team has one last chance to make a big push and then thats it. I believe honda will be helping redbull for the last time during the push for 2022 and then they are gone.

[Bubbles]

For the good of the sport, TPs need set a better example otherwise this will become housewives of F1.

[________]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

For the good of the sport, TPs need set a better example otherwise this will become housewives of F1.

TPs?

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by F87source

The Brazil pu will be fine, the Mercedes engineers used Bottas as a test to see what the pu can take running full beans. Mercedes is extremely good at calculating and planning so Lewis will be fine.

Bottas PU experienced overheating and gearbox issues at Qatar. I believe that was the third race on that PU, so Merc may not get two races out of the rocket PU.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Onesie

TPs?

Team Principals

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Bottas PU experienced overheating and gearbox issues at Qatar. I believe that was the third race on that PU, so Merc may not get two races out of the rocket PU.

Heating issues are normal for Mercedes in traffic, it's happened on the w11 too. Apparently the cooling is affected from the heat generated by cars in front which is multiplied when following in heavy traffic. So if you cannot pass soon, eventually the pu overheats and you lose power and that means passing is impossible. So not likely to be a reliability related issue.

This seems to affect vb more than Lewis since vb cannot pass as easily as Lewis can.

In terms of gearbox vb iirc has never gotten a new one so it's probably time, and that's why he's getting issues. Lewis and max got new gearboxes on Sept 24 on the Russian gp weekend. So Lewis should be fine in that regard too.


Imo Lewis and his car and engine should be good to go for at the very minimum 2 more race weekends of full power "rocket ship mode" running.

[Foghorn]

Originally Posted by F87source

...However for 2022-2025 or 2026 there is an engine freeze in place to help redbull prepare to make their own engines. This means the engines introduced next year will be the engines that are locked in for the next couple years - zero development or spec changes. So every team has one last chance to make a big push and then thats it.

I think people may under estimate how much the engine freeze coming up has influenced MB development program this year.

What’s been pointed to as micro cracks in the block or any other issue is part of a now accelerated development phase to support increased power output before the freeze hence the many iterations despite penalties.

The MB engine looks like it can output new found power, now they need to address reliability and longevity before being locked in at the freeze in a way not provided for in modifications for reliability.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Foghorn

I think people may under estimate how much the engine freeze coming up has influenced MB development program this year.

What’s been pointed to as micro cracks in the block or any other issue is part of a now accelerated development phase to support increased power output before the freeze hence the many iterations despite penalties.

The MB engine looks like it can output new found power, now they need to address reliability and longevity before being locked in at the freeze in a way not provided for in modifications for reliability.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking is responsible for Mercs reliability woes, but I think they've tackled it now. If that's the case then the engine in the w13 will be insane.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Mate .The hate is really strong with you !

I really wonder how much your hate would grow if MAX pulls the '21 WDC...

If Max wins the title he'll probably bring up his food

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by rcracin

Your point being?

All winners have an advantage.

The late Lauda told Montezemolo that Merc were already starting to build a hybrid PU in 2007, a simple add it up there.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

and redbull does the samething right back when mercedes exits their pit. Expect alot of little battles and mind games to come.

Merc cheats have started acting like silly kids also so what choice have they got.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by F87source

Also how are you even able to calculate hp loss figures? Mercedes has never published a single figure on power output.


Looking at percentage delta to the rest of the field it shows redbull dropping off in terms of performance, and at a faster rate than Mercedes. So idk I think redbull may be running Max's pu on its last legs.

Think It's not so bad , as MAX pulled the fastest lap last weekend with such an old HONDA PU .

HAM's Turkish PU vs the Brazilian Rocket Grenade is +/- 80HP.
The Million $ question is : From where the extra HP suddenly came from ...

As we know HAM's ICE was replaced ,and suddenly HAM blew everyone away , that's why I'm pretty sure "something" didn't saw the daylight ...


Of course HONDA an Red Bull have to find 0.5 sec. ASAP !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by minn19

Maybe RB should become a real top team and develop their own engine. Instead of going from a couple of different manufacturers and blaming them for performance shortfalls. Otherwise this is just more

I really wonder why you didn't heard of "Red Bull Powertrains" ? => https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bu...athering-pace/

[M5Rick]

Max should never have had that grid penalty because of Fia incompetence.

[M5Rick]

The real face of Merc

[minn19]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I really wonder why you didn't heard of "Red Bull Powertrains" ? => https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bu...athering-pace/

It still isn’t RBs though, it’s Honda’s and it sounds like they’ll be helping them for quite awhile. There is still no such thing as a RB power train.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

The real face of Merc

So? Marko and Horner/any highly competitive people are like this. I’d rather have that than a too passive TP etc.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by minn19

So? Marko and Horner/any highly competitive people are like this. I'd rather have that than a too passive TP etc.

Too passive like Binotto

I'd rather have Steiner! That dude can go off the rails on a crazy train

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Too passive like Binotto

I'd rather have Steiner! That dude can go off the rails on a crazy train

I was thinking of him when I was typing that response.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by minn19

I was thinking of him when I was typing that response.

Love me some Kimi and Steiner

One doesn't talk and the other drops F bombs every other word