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      07-12-2019, 04:52 AM   #1
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Autocar: M3-engined Toyota Supra ‘possible but unlikely’ says M division boss

I know the S58 will be in the next generation M2/3/4 as well as the new X3/4M, but if they put it in the Supra, for me, it's a loss. It will lose character. I know he says it is unlikely, but to even consider it at all - I don't get it. Why share an engine that was designed and produced specifically for M with a car from another brand!? Think about driving a BMW M and a Toyota Supra pulls up next to you with exactly the same engine and sounds the same.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...-division-boss

Last edited by BlueF87M2; 07-12-2019 at 05:13 AM.. Reason: added some info
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      07-12-2019, 07:23 AM   #2
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They want enthusiasts to step it up and go V8 and drive automatics
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      07-12-2019, 08:40 AM   #3
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In the article the M boss said "unlikely"...means not going to happen anytime soon

But who knows...if Toyota pay them enough I am sure it's possible
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      07-12-2019, 08:41 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
In the article the M boss said "unlikely"...means not going to happen anytime soon

But who knows...if Toyota pay them enough I am sure it's possible
they said , never say never , it means its possible ... here speaks the money..
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      07-12-2019, 09:09 AM   #5
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the M cars are getting S58. X3/4M already configurable on website in regular and comp flavors, 500HP out of the comp.

BMW put the N54 and then N55 in a ton of cars and SUV's My X5 has N55, it's how they do it.

as for Toyota, they have the B58 not the S58, though they have it tuned to be quick as stink. Sh*ts on the z4 M40i in at least one test from carwow on youtube. Dynos also showing those are way hotter than the 335 HP claims..
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      07-12-2019, 09:12 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by gmazet View Post
the M cars are getting S58. X3/4M already configurable on website in regular and comp flavors, 500HP out of the comp.

BMW put the N54 and then N55 in a ton of cars and SUV's My X5 has N55, it's how they do it.

as for Toyota, they have the B58 not the S58, though they have it tuned to be quick as stink. Sh*ts on the z4 M40i in at least one test from carwow on youtube. Dynos also showing those are way hotter than the 335 HP claims..

The supra has the b58 already , the article says that it might get the s58 unit from next gen m3/4 etc...
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      07-12-2019, 09:51 AM   #7
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Well the next gen M3/4 is going to be AWD so the Supra will differentiate itself by having a RWD platform.
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      07-12-2019, 10:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
The supra has the b58 already , the article says that it might get the s58 unit from next gen m3/4 etc...
ah my bad I didn't read that article and didn't catch that point but I'd say.... its' more of the same of what I posted. why not use the same 500hp engine in a bunch of different SKU's? best way to recoup the investment in development.
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      07-12-2019, 10:34 AM   #9
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Well the next gen M3/4 is going to be AWD ....
Is that fact or just speculation?
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      07-12-2019, 11:23 AM   #10
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Is that fact or just speculation?
It means that engine better have some damn good reliability/engineering up front or they will have BIG issues. All your eggs in one basket if you know what I mean.
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      07-12-2019, 11:59 AM   #11
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They already have the technology in place in the m5 , you can go aw or rw
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      07-12-2019, 12:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
Why share an engine that was designed and produced specifically for M with a car from another brand!?
very simple reason to amortize the cost of the engine development over a larger volume of engines.

Average new car buyer doesnt care if its a s58 engine or not. Its just people on this forum and we're probably just the 1% of BMW buyers.

at the end of the day it saves BMW money to do other things
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      07-12-2019, 12:25 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
very simple reason to amortize the cost of the engine development over a larger volume of engines.

Average new car buyer doesnt care if its a s58 engine or not. Its just people on this forum and we're probably just the 1% of BMW buyers.

at the end of the day it saves BMW money to do other things
True , i ve been really thinking to buy the next M2 CS as it would be the top of the line of F87 , the only thing i dislike is the front grills tho, compared to the og . But since i use this car 2 times a month , and now have only 9K kilometers on it , never track it , and planning to keep it as a collectible (not planning to sell it ) i really dont know .. to keep the OG M2 , or buy the better M2CS .. the engine is not a problem for me i dont want to track it , dont want to modify as well , cause i ll keep it stock as it is . But again the CS is the top of the line of F87 , but the OG , have those nice front end . I really need the time to see if the engine of the og m2 is something special , because they spend time on that car and engine , on the other hand s55 is a proper M engine , but they just put it in the comp for emissions etc.. the thing i need to understand , is why they used the n55 modified unit on their first m2 , where the S55 was already in their other m cars .. is there anything special on the m2's n55?
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      07-12-2019, 12:35 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
True , i ve been really thinking to buy the next M2 CS as it would be the top of the line of F87 , the only thing i dislike is the front grills tho, compared to the og . But since i use this car 2 times a month , and now have only 9K kilometers on it , never track it , and planning to keep it as a collectible (not planning to sell it ) i really dont know .. to keep the OG M2 , or buy the better M2CS .. the engine is not a problem for me i dont want to track it , dont want to modify as well , cause i ll keep it stock as it is . But again the CS is the top of the line of F87 , but the OG , have those nice front end . I really need the time to see if the engine of the og m2 is something special , because they spend time on that car and engine , on the other hand s55 is a proper M engine , but they just put it in the comp for emissions etc.. the thing i need to understand , is why they used the n55 modified unit on their first m2 , where the S55 was already in their other m cars .. is there anything special on the m2's n55?
i think they just made the OG m2 to cater to more to the old school style BMW enthusists so to make it as cheap and light as possible while still keeping the M charactistics. It wasnt really meant to be a super fast car but more of a balanced car.

They just used the n55 engine for similar reasons as they did the n54 for the 1m...keep costs as low possible to allow more buyers to be able to buy a M car.

Same reason toyota said they collaborated with BMW on the supra. They said they did the costing on making their own supra and based on that cost.. They would've had to sell the supra for $150k to try to break even. They wanted the new supra to be affordable to the average person.


Coming from a N54...i was a n55 hater for a long time. But BMW won me over with the m2 n55 since it comes with forged crank and rods...same as the s55. Only the new S58 has a completely forged block. Also i like the air to air setup on the n55 over the air to water setup on the s55. Air to water system take longer to recover from heat soak.
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      07-12-2019, 01:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
True , i ve been really thinking to buy the next M2 CS as it would be the top of the line of F87 , the only thing i dislike is the front grills tho, compared to the og . But since i use this car 2 times a month , and now have only 9K kilometers on it , never track it , and planning to keep it as a collectible (not planning to sell it ) i really dont know .. to keep the OG M2 , or buy the better M2CS .. the engine is not a problem for me i dont want to track it , dont want to modify as well , cause i ll keep it stock as it is . But again the CS is the top of the line of F87 , but the OG , have those nice front end . I really need the time to see if the engine of the og m2 is something special , because they spend time on that car and engine , on the other hand s55 is a proper M engine , but they just put it in the comp for emissions etc.. the thing i need to understand , is why they used the n55 modified unit on their first m2 , where the S55 was already in their other m cars .. is there anything special on the m2's n55?
i think they just made the OG m2 to cater to more to the old school style BMW enthusists so to make it as cheap and light as possible while still keeping the M charactistics. It wasnt really meant to be a super fast car but more of a balanced car.

They just used the n55 engine for similar reasons as they did the n54 for the 1m...keep costs as low possible to allow more buyers to be able to buy a M car.

Same reason toyota said they collaborated with BMW on the supra. They said they did the costing on making their own supra and based on that cost.. They would've had to sell the supra for $150k to try to break even. They wanted the new supra to be affordable to the average person.


Coming from a N54...i was a n55 hater for a long time. But BMW won me over with the m2 n55 since it comes with forged crank and rods...same as the s55. Only the new S58 has a completely forged block. Also i like the air to air setup on the n55 over the air to water setup on the s55. Air to water system take longer to recover from heat soak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
True , i ve been really thinking to buy the next M2 CS as it would be the top of the line of F87 , the only thing i dislike is the front grills tho, compared to the og . But since i use this car 2 times a month , and now have only 9K kilometers on it , never track it , and planning to keep it as a collectible (not planning to sell it ) i really dont know .. to keep the OG M2 , or buy the better M2CS .. the engine is not a problem for me i dont want to track it , dont want to modify as well , cause i ll keep it stock as it is . But again the CS is the top of the line of F87 , but the OG , have those nice front end . I really need the time to see if the engine of the og m2 is something special , because they spend time on that car and engine , on the other hand s55 is a proper M engine , but they just put it in the comp for emissions etc.. the thing i need to understand , is why they used the n55 modified unit on their first m2 , where the S55 was already in their other m cars .. is there anything special on the m2's n55?
i think they just made the OG m2 to cater to more to the old school style BMW enthusists so to make it as cheap and light as possible while still keeping the M charactistics. It wasnt really meant to be a super fast car but more of a balanced car.

They just used the n55 engine for similar reasons as they did the n54 for the 1m...keep costs as low possible to allow more buyers to be able to buy a M car.

Same reason toyota said they collaborated with BMW on the supra. They said they did the costing on making their own supra and based on that cost.. They would've had to sell the supra for $150k to try to break even. They wanted the new supra to be affordable to the average person.


Coming from a N54...i was a n55 hater for a long time. But BMW won me over with the m2 n55 since it comes with forged crank and rods...same as the s55. Only the new S58 has a completely forged block. Also i like the air to air setup on the n55 over the air to water setup on the s55. Air to water system take longer to recover from heat soak.
But in the end the price difference of the M2 to the M2C is very small(5k) !!! So i dont think they did it only for cost cutting !!!
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      07-12-2019, 01:25 PM   #16
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But in the end the price difference of the M2 to the M2C is very small(5k) !!! So i dont think they did it only for cost cutting !!!
well msrp wise your right...but i'm sure internally the costing difference is larger. Keep in mind they been making the n55 for about 10yrs. so all the machining and tooling has been paid off. So all their really paying for just material costs and variable costs.

They also have larger stock piles of inventory on parts for the n55 vs the s55.

Car companys are cheap...Nissan makes the versa in mexico just to save $300 a car versus making it in tennessee and thats excluding shipping costs.
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      07-12-2019, 01:40 PM   #17
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I love the idea of a particular M engine is an M engine regardless of the outer body. Same as it was with the E36 & E46 before they separated body styles by number. Want a coupe, four door, convertible all the same engine. Though now we can also get SAVs.

Sharing with another brand does seem weird, though hoping that collaboration helped rub off some of Toyota's TQM on BMW.
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      07-12-2019, 01:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
But in the end the price difference of the M2 to the M2C is very small(5k) !!! So i dont think they did it only for cost cutting !!!
well msrp wise your right...but i'm sure internally the costing difference is larger. Keep in mind they been making the n55 for about 10yrs. so all the machining and tooling has been paid off. So all their really paying for just material costs and variable costs.

They also have larger stock piles of inventory on parts for the n55 vs the s55.

Car companys are cheap...Nissan makes the versa in mexico just to save $300 a car versus making it in tennessee and thats excluding shipping costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TemjinX2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
But in the end the price difference of the M2 to the M2C is very small(5k) !!! So i dont think they did it only for cost cutting !!!
well msrp wise your right...but i'm sure internally the costing difference is larger. Keep in mind they been making the n55 for about 10yrs. so all the machining and tooling has been paid off. So all their really paying for just material costs and variable costs.

They also have larger stock piles of inventory on parts for the n55 vs the s55.

Car companys are cheap...Nissan makes the versa in mexico just to save $300 a car versus making it in tennessee and thats excluding shipping costs.
Yes .. what did you would do if you had really the choice . New M2 OG fully loaded all carbon kit , mpe , sunroof etc literally everything plus m steering whee plus the M2C original mirrors (i retrofitted them 3k euro in Cyprus ) . The car had cost me 105K euro as i spec it . Or the better more revised M2 CS with limited production .. really dont know ... from the other hand in 20 yrs i.e people will recognise the F87 as the first M2 , and see the Versions as just versions . What this m2 will be remembered for is the F87 code/chassis . Like the E30 M3 , people refer to its code , not the evolution model . But its true that the CS will be the top of the line of the M2 . But the last true 😂 kidney grills are on the OG .. i mean i like it a lot , plus the 1M had the Modified N54 unit and still is more talked than the e92 M3 ..
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      07-12-2019, 01:48 PM   #19
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Yes .. what did you would do if you had really the choice . New M2 OG fully loaded all carbon kit , mpe , sunroof etc literally everything plus m steering whee plus the M2C original mirrors (i retrofitted them 3k euro in Cyprus ) . The car had cost me 105K euro as i spec it . Or the better more revised M2 CS with limited production .. really dont know ... from the other hand in 20 yrs i.e people will recognise the F87 as the first M2 , and see the Versions as just versions . What this m2 will be remembered for is the F87 code/chassis . Like the E30 M3 , people refer to its code , not the evolution model . But its true that the CS will be the top of the line of the M2 . But the last true 😂 kidney grills are on the OG .. i mean i like it a lot , plus the 1M had the Modified N54 unit and still is more talked than the e92 M3 ..

I think the OG style in the long beach blue will be the style people think of when they think of the original M2 because thats what every 16yr old now saw on the commericals when the M2 first came out.

Your probably the right the M2 CS will probably become a collector car similar to the e46 csl depending on how many they make but it probably won't happen for 20yrs.
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      07-12-2019, 01:50 PM   #20
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How does “possible, but unlikely”...turn into Supra is getting the S58?

Hypothetically if it does get the S58, it will be years away. It won’t get it until the G80 M3 has arrived and then the G82 M4. BMW would never allow it until those two vehicles have a foot hold in the market. 3-4 years minimum. I’d wager the S58 G87 M2 will be for sale before a S58 powered Supra. As far as a Z4M model goes, good luck with that when the Z4 M40i starts at $65k. They priced themselves out of that market.
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      07-12-2019, 01:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueF87M2 View Post
Yes .. what did you would do if you had really the choice . New M2 OG fully loaded all carbon kit , mpe , sunroof etc literally everything plus m steering whee plus the M2C original mirrors (i retrofitted them 3k euro in Cyprus ) . The car had cost me 105K euro as i spec it . Or the better more revised M2 CS with limited production .. really dont know ... from the other hand in 20 yrs i.e people will recognise the F87 as the first M2 , and see the Versions as just versions . What this m2 will be remembered for is the F87 code/chassis . Like the E30 M3 , people refer to its code , not the evolution model . But its true that the CS will be the top of the line of the M2 . But the last true 😂 kidney grills are on the OG .. i mean i like it a lot , plus the 1M had the Modified N54 unit and still is more talked than the e92 M3 ..

I think the OG style in the long beach blue will be the style people think of when they think of the original M2 because thats what every 16yr old now saw on the commericals when the M2 first came out.

Your probably the right the M2 CS will probably become a collector car similar to the e46 csl depending on how many they make but it probably won't happen for 20yrs.
Yes , when you think of the E30 M3 usually tou think about that red E30 M3 as well... the only think that turns me down is that is not a proper M engine but a hybrid , which is not bad , i think e30 M3 , E36 M3 , E46 M3 used as well blocks from BMW , and M modified the whole engine , but they got S code in front , in the M2 and 1M they couldnt do S code since there was already S54 and S55 ..
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      07-12-2019, 01:52 PM   #22
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Given how quick the Supra already is with the B58 it would be a giant killer with another 100 hp from the S58. I would love to see it as I'm a fan of great cars not brands.
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