[arian19]

I’ve seen this talked about in a few other threads scattered between comments. But I still haven’t seen a real answer to this question... why did BMW handicap the US versions battery so much more than the European version.

https://www.electrive.com/2020/06/14...in-the-states/

https://insideevs.com/news/434365/20...-range-rating/

Battery capacity:
in Europe: 24.0 kWh battery (gross) and 21.6 kWh (usable/net)
in the U.S.: 24.0 kWh battery (gross) and 17.06 kWh (usable/net)

Looks like they both have the same exact batteries with different limits

all-electric range of
U.S. version: 31 miles (50 km) EPA and 400 miles (644 km) total
European version: up to 67-87 km (41.6-54 miles) WLTP or 86–97 km (53-60 miles) NEDC

and the European version gets more range, albeit using the more lenient WLTP standard over the EPA

However, the tires are not the reason why the claimed available battery capacity is lower on the US version – 17.06 kWh or just 71% of the total. The reason for the 7 kWh buffer is not stated. It could be, however, that the standard (German) trim includes two-axle air suspension and electronically controlled dampers as well as some digital services specially designed for electric mobility.

Some speculation from the link above.


My commute from San Francisco to San Jose is about 43 miles 😭

[arian19]

Here is some more speculation:

Originally Posted by ketrab

Marty in NY

There is a reason why they locked the 24 kW to 17 in US. As the battery degrades they'll start giving the remaining back to the user plus the warranty. At least that's what volt does. Wish we could confirm that with BMW.

For winter probably 50% efficient especially since there is no heat pump.

[arian19]

And a commenter on the elective article said

I think it may be because of their Samsung battery manufacturing problem-contamination causing fires…(recently announced); not good to charge to 100%; no plug-in charging, etc. until BMW fix is developed.

[taybo20]

I’d love to at least get what Europe gets. Very frustrating to know that the battery is so handicapped, yet you still have all the weight and size rendering 30% of it kind of pointless.

[Rikkiokbye]

Originally Posted by taybo20

I'd love to at least get what Europe gets. Very frustrating to know that the battery is so handicapped, yet you still have all the weight and size rendering 30% of it kind of pointless.

Have they limited the charge in all x5 45e cars. Even the new ones yet to be delivered? Mine gets delivered next week here in UK. Production was October.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by Rikkiokbye

Have they limited the charge in all x5 45e cars. Even the new ones yet to be delivered? Mine gets delivered next week here in UK. Production was October.

No the 45e delivered in the US have a lower net battery capacity for a reason not yet clear. Suggestions are because of warranty reasons and battery degradation.

European delivered cars have the normal 21.7 KWH net capacity. So I don't think you should worry in the UK

[amus3d]

I've only had the car for 3 weeks so I've been driving it very conservatively... I have always managed to get over the estimated 30mile range. It's usually high 30s even with 75% highway driving.

[brave-heart]

It is known to have 40 miles range on US 45e. The question is why it can't be 50 miles like European version. But it's only 10 miles diff. I'm fine with it if the purpose is to make the battery last longer.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by brave-heart

It is known to have 40 miles range on US 45e. The question is why it can't be 50 miles like European version. But it's only 10 miles diff. I'm fine with it if the purpose is to make the battery last longer.

The battery doesn't last longer. The netto capacity can be guaranteed for a longer time because it is lower.

[jc.bmw]

I don't remember where unfortunately, but I've heard/read that the US battery has an 8 year warranty vs 6 years in Europe.

So the computer limited lower useful capacity in the US allows BMW to guarantee the battery promised range for longer.

I did not validate the statements above, but it does make sense given that battery warranties typically state a certain level of capacity bellow which the battery is considered defective.

[Rikkiokbye]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

No the 45e delivered in the US have a lower net battery capacity for a reason not yet clear. Suggestions are because of warranty reasons and battery degradation.

European delivered cars have the normal 21.7 KWH net capacity. So I don't think you should worry in the UK

Great 👍🏽 thanks for the clarification

[arian19]

Originally Posted by jc.bmw

I don't remember where unfortunately, but I've heard/read that the US battery has an 8 year warranty vs 6 years in Europe.

So the computer limited lower useful capacity in the US allows BMW to guarantee the battery promised range for longer.

I did not validate the statements above, but it does make sense given that battery warranties typically state a certain level of capacity bellow which the battery is considered defective.

I feel like they could still guarantee 30 miles without limiting the battery. Unless limiting the battery actually increases the battery life

Battery capacity:
in Europe: 24.0 kWh battery (gross) and 21.6 kWh (usable/net)
in the U.S.: 24.0 kWh battery (gross) and 17.06 kWh (usable/net)

The 90% (21.6/24 kWh) of usable capacity in Europe, and only 71% (17.06/24 kWh) in US seems like a huge decrease. Does anyone know if Tesla or any other car company has battery capacity limits that different for different regions like this?

Seems very strange, imagine if Apple/Samsung limited the battery of iPhones per region without explaining why, everyone would be up and arms

[sebseb]

Originally Posted by arian19

I feel like they could still guarantee 30 miles without limiting the battery. Unless limiting the battery actually increases the battery life



The 90% (21.6/24 kWh) of usable capacity in Europe, and only 71% (17.06/24 kWh) in US seems like a huge decrease. Does anyone know if Tesla or any other car company has battery capacity limits that different for different regions like this?

Seems very strange, imagine if Apple/Samsung limited the battery of iPhones per region without explaining why, everyone would be up and arms

I don't know if Tesla limits their battery capacity in the same way BMW does, but you actually can select the percentage of battery you want to use. Default is 90% but for trips you can set it to 100%. I'm not sure if this 100% is all of the battery or not. Tesla may limit some as well. Usually it's recommended that you set the battery capacity between 50-80% for longevity.

So BMW setting their battery limit to 70% is actually not a bad idea but why Europe gets 90% is mind boggling. Also Tesla is probably way better at battery management and cell chemistry than BMW and so they can push the batteries a lot harder. They also have more efficient motors.

BMW iX will probably suffer from the same issues as the X5 45e. Tesla might offer 500 miles by 2022 when the iX hits the US. I really wish they would have just taken the G05 body and made it all electric and financially spent more on the drive train than trying so hard to make it look incredibly ugly.

[jad03060]

FWIW, there's a little wiggle room in how the EPA allows manufacturers to report their EV mileage. Tesla uses that wiggle room to make theirs look better than most everyone else. There's an interesting video I watched that goes through the math to show the differences. You could probably find it if you wanted to know more. Tesla uses the optional method. Nearly everyone else uses the 'simpler' method that generally results in a smaller value. That also means people are more likely to reach that value, at least in the USA where that test is used.

[taybo20]

If someone figures out how to hack their way into even 80% of battery, I’m in for that haha

[biterror]

Originally Posted by sebseb

I don't know if Tesla limits their battery capacity in the same way BMW does, but you actually can select the percentage of battery you want to use. Default is 90% but for trips you can set it to 100%. I'm not sure if this 100% is all of the battery or not. Tesla may limit some as well. Usually it's recommended that you set the battery capacity between 50-80% for longevity.

As far as I know, all EV manufacturers limit the battery usage to less than 100% because the batteries don't like to be fully discharged (and they also age faster when they are constantly being charged to 100%). Fast charging and discharging also stress the battery more than slow charging. I wonder if we could find some Samsung datasheets for the cells/chemistry that is used by BMW..

[codex57]

Tesla doesn't hold back. There are long arguments asking Tesla owners about the best way to fight battery degradation because we have access to the whole battery. I think all the Europeans limit. Can't remember about the other Americans and Asian manufacturers.

[RocketGoBoom]

Originally Posted by sebseb

I don't know if Tesla limits their battery capacity in the same way BMW does, but you actually can select the percentage of battery you want to use. Default is 90% but for trips you can set it to 100%. I'm not sure if this 100% is all of the battery or not. Tesla may limit some as well. Usually it's recommended that you set the battery capacity between 50-80% for longevity.

Tesla also has a certain amount that is not made available to customers. So even if you are at 0%, there is still 5% there to prevent the battery pack from really being damaged. The same is true at the top end. Even at 100%, it is not really 100%. I have heard that if you leave a Tesla at 0% too long, Tesla will try to call you to make sure it gets plugged in. Because there is a natural 1% daily loss of stored energy just sitting there. So a Tesla (or any EV) at 0% can really be damaged if left that way for a week or more.

[johnmolanii]

Originally Posted by brave-heart

It is known to have 40 miles range on US 45e. The question is why it can't be 50 miles like European version. But it's only 10 miles diff. I'm fine with it if the purpose is to make the battery last longer.

It's 30 miles of range...not 40

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by johnmolanii

It's 30 miles of range...not 40

quite a few US 45e owners have documented more than 30 electric miles on a single charge, i being one of them. my longest is 37 miles from 100% to 0% (despite the car stating 34 miles @ 100% before departure). variable factors come into play: driving style, terrain, outside temperature, cabin comfort features, etc. with electric, efficiency is the name of the game.

Originally Posted by taybo20

If someone figures out how to hack their way into even 80% of battery, I’m in for that haha

mission performance is offering a range extender https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1785936

[CaboM4]

so ... the $1M question ... what do we need to code in ESYS to get our US-spec X5 45e to have the same usable battery capacity as the EU??

[rlou]

Originally Posted by CaboM4

so ... the $1M question ... what do we need to code in ESYS to get our US-spec X5 45e to have the same usable battery capacity as the EU??

Actually, per the above linked post, it's only a $500 question. The bigger question is what will it do to your warranty...