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      10-06-2020, 01:31 PM   #1
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      10-07-2020, 06:06 PM   #2
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If you have your car tuned..... you lose your factory warrantee on any breakage that occured due to the tune.

You gotta pay to play. If you're not willing to accept the risk, don't get your car tuned. There is no "magic answer" to tuning a car, and then expecting BMW to honor a factory warrantee if it breaks. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is a fool.

There isn't a tuning company on the planet that will warrantee your engine, transmission, rear diff, etc. Not one. BMW has been known to even deny warrantee claims on Dinan tuned cars. If you tune it.... they will find out. Either accept the risk, or don't.

From CarBahn's website:

"If your vehicle is currently covered by the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty, CarBahn Autoworks’ products are warranted for the remaining term of the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty. The manufacturer’s new car warranty is limited to 4 years or 50,000 miles (80,000 kilometers in Canada), commencing on the date of first retail sale or the date the vehicle is first placed in-service as a demonstrator or company vehicle, whichever is earlier. CarBahn Autoworks’ warranties are transferable when ownership of the vehicle into which the CarBahn Autoworks products were originally installed is sold.

If your vehicle is outside of the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty, for two (2) years from the original purchase date of the CarBahn Autoworks product, CarBahn Autoworks will repair or replace, at its sole discretion, any defective CarBahn Autoworks component. This warranty does not include reimbursement for repairs to any original vehicle manufacturer’s component(s) that may have been affected by a CarBahn Autoworks component."

In other words.... if you break your car.... CarBahn will replace ONLY their "software"..... not the parts.

Last edited by Ninefourteener; 10-07-2020 at 06:21 PM..
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      10-07-2020, 07:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninefourteener View Post
If you have your car tuned..... you lose your factory warrantee on any breakage that occured due to the tune.

You gotta pay to play. If you're not willing to accept the risk, don't get your car tuned. There is no "magic answer" to tuning a car, and then expecting BMW to honor a factory warrantee if it breaks. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is a fool.

There isn't a tuning company on the planet that will warrantee your engine, transmission, rear diff, etc. Not one. BMW has been known to even deny warrantee claims on Dinan tuned cars. If you tune it.... they will find out. Either accept the risk, or don't.

From CarBahn's website:

"If your vehicle is currently covered by the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty, CarBahn Autoworks’ products are warranted for the remaining term of the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty. The manufacturer’s new car warranty is limited to 4 years or 50,000 miles (80,000 kilometers in Canada), commencing on the date of first retail sale or the date the vehicle is first placed in-service as a demonstrator or company vehicle, whichever is earlier. CarBahn Autoworks’ warranties are transferable when ownership of the vehicle into which the CarBahn Autoworks products were originally installed is sold.

If your vehicle is outside of the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty, for two (2) years from the original purchase date of the CarBahn Autoworks product, CarBahn Autoworks will repair or replace, at its sole discretion, any defective CarBahn Autoworks component. This warranty does not include reimbursement for repairs to any original vehicle manufacturer’s component(s) that may have been affected by a CarBahn Autoworks component."

In other words.... if you break your car.... CarBahn will replace ONLY their "software"..... not the parts.
CarBahn is not like the tune you did at your local shop. I don't say that as a bad thing against your tune. In fact, I am sure your tune is exactly what you paid for and may very well produce a few more hp than the CarBahn tune. How much is debatable, but I would guess the difference is small for a 5k lb vehicle.

With CarBahn, understand that the dealer is the one that actually sends off the DME to CarBahn. My dealer has verified that the warranty WILL be intact. I have this in writing. You need to stop spreading blatantly erroneous information. Here is the exact wording from CarBahn's website for you to inspect.

Quote:
The warranty will, without charge for parts or labor, repair or replace the defective CarBahn Autoworks’ component(s), as well as any original vehicle manufacturer component(s) that may have been directly affected by a CarBahn Autoworks component, using new or authorized remanufactured parts.
This is not my opinion, but what CarBahn explicitly states on their website and my dealer has *in writing* confirmed. Your factory warranty is 100% still in play with a CarBahn tune. You pay the $1,250 extra with the tune and your warranty is still guaranteed. Even many members in my CCA have confirmed that their stuff was covered.

Pay to play is a fact on the tune you bought. New BMW ISTA has assured you of that. CarBahn still retains the warranty (pay the extra $1,250) and that is a fact as well.
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      10-07-2020, 11:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninefourteener View Post
If you have your car tuned..... you lose your factory warrantee on any breakage that occured due to the tune.

You gotta pay to play. If you're not willing to accept the risk, don't get your car tuned. There is no "magic answer" to tuning a car, and then expecting BMW to honor a factory warrantee if it breaks. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is a fool.

There isn't a tuning company on the planet that will warrantee your engine, transmission, rear diff, etc. Not one. BMW has been known to even deny warrantee claims on Dinan tuned cars. If you tune it.... they will find out. Either accept the risk, or don't.

From CarBahn's website:

"If your vehicle is currently covered by the vehicle manufacturer's new car limited warranty, [COLOR="red"]CarBahn Autoworks' products are warranted[/COLOR] for the remaining term of the vehicle manufacturer's new car limited warranty. The manufacturer's new car warranty is limited to 4 years or 50,000 miles (80,000 kilometers in Canada), commencing on the date of first retail sale or the date the vehicle is first placed in-service as a demonstrator or company vehicle, whichever is earlier. CarBahn Autoworks' warranties are transferable when ownership of the vehicle into which the CarBahn Autoworks products were originally installed is sold.

If your vehicle is outside of the vehicle manufacturer's new car limited warranty, for two (2) years from the original purchase date of the CarBahn Autoworks product, CarBahn Autoworks will repair or replace, at its sole discretion, any defective CarBahn Autoworks component. [COLOR="red"]This warranty does not include reimbursement for repairs to any original vehicle manufacturer's component(s) that may have been affected by a CarBahn Autoworks component."
[/COLOR]
In other words.... if you break your car.... CarBahn will replace ONLY their "software"..... not the parts.
CarBahn is not like the tune you did at your local shop. I don't say that as a bad thing against your tune. In fact, I am sure your tune is exactly what you paid for and may very well produce a few more hp than the CarBahn tune. How much is debatable, but I would guess the difference is small for a 5k lb vehicle.

With CarBahn, understand that the dealer is the one that actually sends off the DME to CarBahn. My dealer has verified that the warranty WILL be intact. I have this in writing. You need to stop spreading blatantly erroneous information. Here is the exact wording from CarBahn's website for you to inspect.

Quote:
The warranty will, without charge for parts or labor, repair or replace the defective CarBahn Autoworks' component(s), as well as any original vehicle manufacturer component(s) that may have been directly affected by a CarBahn Autoworks component, using new or authorized remanufactured parts.
This is not my opinion, but what CarBahn explicitly states on their website and my dealer has *in writing* confirmed. Your factory warranty is 100% still in play with a CarBahn tune. You pay the $1,250 extra with the tune and your warranty is still guaranteed. Even many members in my CCA have confirmed that their stuff was covered.

Pay to play is a fact on the tune you bought. New BMW ISTA has assured you of that. CarBahn still retains the warranty (pay the extra $1,250) and that is a fact as well.
Sounds really good if its like that, I am very interested and will just have to see if they have a Carbahn dealer near NYC.

Thank you for the infor
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      10-07-2020, 11:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpichardo91 View Post
Sounds really good if its like that, I am very interested and will just have to see if they have a Carbahn dealer near NYC.

Thank you for the infor
I have a request for dyno sheets or some documentation for the gains they list. If I can see them, I will get the tune. I just can’t see a downside for the price.
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      10-08-2020, 06:45 AM   #6
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I doubt any warranty offered by tuners would be honoured. I think they would argue until you give up and take your motor elsewhere for repair or a new engine.

Anyone who has experience of this please post and confirm either way.
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      10-08-2020, 08:49 AM   #7
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CarBahn last i checked is basically owned by Steve Dinan. Going by that they don't have the best track record when it comes to tunes for modern bmw platforms. This was more for their piggyback stuff where I always see users post issues with them all the time on the 3/5 series forums. Maybe their flash tunes are better but I would approach with caution.
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      10-08-2020, 09:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Addbuyer View Post
I doubt any warranty offered by tuners would be honoured. I think they would argue until you give up and take your motor elsewhere for repair or a new engine.

Anyone who has experience of this please post and confirm either way.
There are 3 X5M50i in my area that already have it. I have in writing the dealer that the warranty is intact.
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      10-08-2020, 09:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan l. View Post
CarBahn last i checked is basically owned by Steve Dinan. Going by that they don't have the best track record when it comes to tunes for modern bmw platforms. This was more for their piggyback stuff where I always see users post issues with them all the time on the 3/5 series forums. Maybe their flash tunes are better but I would approach with caution.
I have an email in with them for a dyno.

I agree Dinan was overpriced with less performance. Always was. This was also before the current ISTA and I instavoiding your warranty with a flash. Maybe with the current landscape, this is a good compromise? I need to see that dyno though.
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      10-08-2020, 10:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
There are 3 X5M50i in my area that already have it. I have in writing the dealer that the warranty is intact.
Sorry, me no understand who do you mean by "Dealer"
Is that the BMW (dealer) that has written that their warranty is intact even though you've claimed you are running their product with a tune or is it the tuning company (dealer) that has put in writing that their warranty will cover engine and drive train components should a failure occur and BMW wont entertain such.

Last edited by Addbuyer; 10-08-2020 at 10:28 AM..
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      10-08-2020, 11:09 AM   #11
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      10-08-2020, 12:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Addbuyer View Post
Sorry, me no understand who do you mean by "Dealer"
Is that the BMW (dealer) that has written that their warranty is intact even though you've claimed you are running their product with a tune or is it the tuning company (dealer) that has put in writing that their warranty will cover engine and drive train components should a failure occur and BMW wont entertain such.
My BMW dealer said BMWNA will cover normal stuff and should they deny a claim CarBahn pay. They have had no issues thus far and are an authorized CarBahn dealer.

Side note, I have known my SA for 12 years with various different setups. Some of my cars have been extremely modded include a large single. The SA is a CCA member and super active. What I am getting at is that he is very reliable and has never misled me. I think they know I would rather honesty.
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      10-08-2020, 11:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
My BMW dealer said BMWNA will cover normal stuff .
Dude. Your dealer has absolutely NOTHING to do with your new vehicle warranty, which is a contract between you and BMWNA; not your dealer.

Further, your BMW dealer is an independent business and legally no different from any tuner shop; at best your dealer/SA may not instantly flag your car as tuned, but that's it.

Understand this:
If your car requires warranty work FOR ANYTHING, but especially anything big and costly, you are under high risk of being denied warranty work by BMWNA, and your dealer won't lie for you. If BMWNA asks your dealer for data on you, your dealer will provide it and your BMWNA warranty is toast. BMWNA doesn't have to prove a thing to deny warranty work and they can eliminate your warranty at any time.

Further, any tuner "warranty" is NOT a warranty; at best, it's tuner-insurance against anything big the tuner *agrees* is the fault of the tune (which won't be much, if anything).
Oops, EDIT: and it turns out per Ninefourteener's post CarBahn will only cover CarBahn stuff! so if your engine blows, $35,000 later you'll get CarBahn components covered.

The assurances you've mentioned are legally worthless.
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      10-09-2020, 01:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Dude. Your dealer has absolutely NOTHING to do with your new vehicle warranty, which is a contract between you and BMWNA; not your dealer.

Further, your BMW dealer is an independent business and legally no different from any tuner shop; at best your dealer/SA may not instantly flag your car as tuned, but that's it.

Understand this:
If your car requires warranty work FOR ANYTHING, but especially anything big and costly, you are under high risk of being denied warranty work by BMWNA, and your dealer won't lie for you. If BMWNA asks your dealer for data on you, your dealer will provide it and your BMWNA warranty is toast. BMWNA doesn't have to prove a thing to deny warranty work and they can eliminate your warranty at any time.

Further, any tuner "warranty" is NOT a warranty; at best, it's tuner-insurance against anything big the tuner *agrees* is the fault of the tune (which won't be much, if anything).
Oops, EDIT: and it turns out per Ninefourteener's post CarBahn will only cover CarBahn stuff! so if your engine blows, $35,000 later you'll get CarBahn components covered.

The assurances you've mentioned are legally worthless.
That’s odd because you clearly didn’t read just like 914 didn’t read. Let me quote again...

“The warranty will, without charge for parts or labor, repair or replace the defective CarBahn Autoworks' component(s), as well as any original vehicle manufacturer component(s) that may have been directly affected by a CarBahn Autoworks component, using new or authorized remanufactured parts.”

Honestly, choose the tune that works for you. I get it. I also understand MO at DME, and Jordan at RK, etc. are likely putting down slightly higher numbers for the same cost tune only and half the price with tune plus warranty. I am not arguing that.

Furthermore, I agree that BMWNA will 100% know the car is flashed with tripped torque targets on the DME and TCU. We are in agreement.

I am simply stating what CarBahn notes, my dealer has confirmed, and multiple members in my CCA have experienced and that is your will get your vehicle repaired under warranty. If BMWNA denies the claim then CarBahn paid. My Sales manager confirmed. My SA manager confirmed. This is from a gigantic dealer moving a lot of cars. Why this bothers anyone and turns into a crap fest is beyond me.

This is an option. Options are good. Choose the option that best fits your needs.

Lastly, we still have not seen a dyno from CarBahn or a user. Until we get that, this is website claims so let’s move one step at a time.
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      10-09-2020, 02:45 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
My Sales manager confirmed. My SA manager confirmed. This is from a gigantic dealer moving a lot of cars. Why this bothers anyone and turns into a crap fest is beyond me.
It's not a crapfest to tell people the full truth versus the stories of vendor "assurances" by people getting paid to give you assurances.

These SAs & whatnot might be great people but they also aren't lawyers, probably haven't even read the fineprint, and don't even know what they don't know. Why should they?

"Confirming" things to you costs these vendors nothing, they're not signing anything, it gets them paid, and if shit goes tits up for you, what's the penalty to them for mis-confirming with you? Nothing. They aren't going to help you pay. You're the only one who loses. I've seen it happen to more people than I can count on one hand and they all had your same assurances.


It's fine to say you understand modding means planning to foot the entire bill and feeling lucky if you don't have to; but don't try to sell vendor "assurances" to people here, those are worth less than the paper you last wiped your ass with.

That's the full truth.
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      10-09-2020, 04:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Dude. Your dealer has absolutely NOTHING to do with your new vehicle warranty, which is a contract between you and BMWNA; not your dealer.

Further, your BMW dealer is an independent business and legally no different from any tuner shop; at best your dealer/SA may not instantly flag your car as tuned, but that's it.

Understand this:
If your car requires warranty work FOR ANYTHING, but especially anything big and costly, you are under high risk of being denied warranty work by BMWNA, and your dealer won't lie for you. If BMWNA asks your dealer for data on you, your dealer will provide it and your BMWNA warranty is toast. BMWNA doesn't have to prove a thing to deny warranty work and they can eliminate your warranty at any time.

Further, any tuner "warranty" is NOT a warranty; at best, it's tuner-insurance against anything big the tuner *agrees* is the fault of the tune (which won't be much, if anything).
Oops, EDIT: and it turns out per Ninefourteener's post CarBahn will only cover CarBahn stuff! so if your engine blows, $35,000 later you'll get CarBahn components covered.

The assurances you've mentioned are legally worthless.
I don't mean to upset anybody or blow anyone's bubble but what Gruss says above is exactly what I was pointing towards. I believe BMW and the tuner will leave anyone trying to claim, high and dry.
A good insurance company offers 90% cover (for when its legal to have insurance such as car ownership) and 10% payout if they really have no other option / wriggle out clause.
This is why I ask anyone to post if they have been paid out by the tuning company who admitted it was their fault, I don't believe such a person or case exists but please someone say my beliefs are wrong.

Interestingly, I had my car in for a new steering column to be installed this week and the BMW mechanic working on it sent me a video health check of the car. He shows all the underneath saying suspension is good and no oil leaks as he films beneath the engine and gearbox and then runs along the exhaust saying it all looks good Its missing the resonator and secondary cats
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      10-09-2020, 04:26 AM   #17
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Whilst on insurance warranty / insurances, I've often wondered if anyone has been caught out with a rejected insurance claim for a road accident where the damage assessor has discovered engine tuning "plug and play or flash" that the owner didn't declare simply because they didn't know it was wearing a tune? There must be millions of tuned used cars sold to unsuspecting owners out there?
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      10-09-2020, 06:58 AM   #18
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I apparently I "don't read".... so I'll let you all read these for me:

Here's a very small F80 thread, that includes 2 different people that got screwed with DINAN/Carbahn tunes. One of them was screwed by BMWNA, the other was screwed by both BMW and DINAN:

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1605663

Here's an M2 guy that threw a rod from a DINAN tune. BMW screwed him, and DINAN only paid for labor... not parts.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1521609

Here's a F30 thread about the Dinan/BMW divorce in 2017.... due to warrantee claims, and dealers not advising customers to use Dinan:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1422170

Here's an M5 discussion forum about BMW dealers dropping and not honoring DINAN tuned cars, and DINAN not honoring their warrantees:

https://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1147314

There are HUNDREDS more.

It is hard enough to get BMW to honor a major repair on a 100% bone stock vehicle. They have TEAMS of high priced lawyers that will do anything and everything to not have to pay to repair your car. By relying on a 3rd party warrantee, all you've done is added a level of complexity, and involved a smaller company (with less capital) to cover your warrantee instead of BMW.

Once again.... you gotta pay to play. You have to accept the risk, and you have to accept the consequences if something goes wrong.

If you get a tune... piggyback, bench, or dyno.... and blow your engine, I am absolutely 100% certain that the liability rests on your shoulders. BMW is going to deny paying for it. DINAN is going to deny paying for it.... I absolutely guarantee it.

If they say anything otherwise..... they are lying.
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      10-09-2020, 10:02 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninefourteener View Post
I apparently I "don't read".... so I'll let you all read these for me:

Here's a very small F80 thread, that includes 2 different people that got screwed with DINAN/Carbahn tunes. One of them was screwed by BMWNA, the other was screwed by both BMW and DINAN:

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1605663

Here's an M2 guy that threw a rod from a DINAN tune. BMW screwed him, and DINAN only paid for labor... not parts.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1521609

Here's a F30 thread about the Dinan/BMW divorce in 2017.... due to warrantee claims, and dealers not advising customers to use Dinan:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1422170

Here's an M5 discussion forum about BMW dealers dropping and not honoring DINAN tuned cars, and DINAN not honoring their warrantees:

https://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1147314

There are HUNDREDS more.

It is hard enough to get BMW to honor a major repair on a 100% bone stock vehicle. They have TEAMS of high priced lawyers that will do anything and everything to not have to pay to repair your car. By relying on a 3rd party warrantee, all you've done is added a level of complexity, and involved a smaller company (with less capital) to cover your warrantee instead of BMW.

Once again.... you gotta pay to play. You have to accept the risk, and you have to accept the consequences if something goes wrong.

If you get a tune... piggyback, bench, or dyno.... and blow your engine, I am absolutely 100% certain that the liability rests on your shoulders. BMW is going to deny paying for it. DINAN is going to deny paying for it.... I absolutely guarantee it.

If they say anything otherwise..... they are lying.
I am NOT saying what Internet forums have shown. I quoted you the line In the warranty and have told you what HAS happened first hand with CCA members and this dealer. I know for fact what has happened. They try to get BMWNA to pay and if they declined then CarBahn paid. This isn’t my opinion, but a fact of what multiple CCA members in my club has told me.

Save some of your internet sleuthing and listen for a change. I have no argument about any of what those forum members experienced. Zero doubt. We ALL know things are dealt with differently dealer to dealer and the difference can be monumental.
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      10-09-2020, 10:17 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
It's not a crapfest to tell people the full truth versus the stories of vendor "assurances" by people getting paid to give you assurances.

These SAs & whatnot might be great people but they also aren't lawyers, probably haven't even read the fineprint, and don't even know what they don't know. Why should they?

"Confirming" things to you costs these vendors nothing, they're not signing anything, it gets them paid, and if shit goes tits up for you, what's the penalty to them for mis-confirming with you? Nothing. They aren't going to help you pay. You're the only one who loses. I've seen it happen to more people than I can count on one hand and they all had your same assurances.


It's fine to say you understand modding means planning to foot the entire bill and feeling lucky if you don't have to; but don't try to sell vendor "assurances" to people here, those are worth less than the paper you last wiped your ass with.

That's the full truth.
Sell? Are you even listening to yourself? What the hell am I selling?

Half of the G05 community is frustrated with the lack of tuning options. The OBD2 lock means we send our DME to the tuner for them to unlock and flash. When we accept an OTA update, we lose the tune. Now you have more down time time sending the DME again. This is my DD and I can’t do that. In this case, my SA will even give me a loaner while they send the DME. That is pretty cool.

I have talked to Mo, chatted with Jordan’s crew, etc. I am no a newbie to tuning. My last BMW had a 6266 and my prior 2JZ had a GT60. I get it. I really do get the pay to play scheme. I have accepted it for 2 decades and know how things work. We have a couple JB4s running around here too and I have a ton of experience with them. Many of us do. The problem is that it is showing timing drops under WOT giving the appearance of KR. Not good.

This may be an option for some and maybe not for others. For now, CarBahn hasn’t produced a single dyno for the G05, so there is still no proof. Once I see that, I will decide what is best for me as others can do the same.

You still didn’t even respond to the obvious documentation that contradicts exactly what you claimed. Either way, you have stated your opinion on the subject and I have stated my first hand experience. Let’s just leave it at that.
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      10-09-2020, 10:55 AM   #21
Tim2189
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just get a jb4 and call it a day
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      10-09-2020, 11:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim2189 View Post
just get a jb4 and call it a day
You know I am highly considering it. I just don’t feel comfortable with those timing (KR) drops showing up in your logs.
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