[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

Yes, when I have the car and we go on summer holiday to Austria with the car electrical drive will be reduced to a minimum. Maybe occasional charging when driving. Consumption will go through the roof.

Driving down hill will charge the battery quite a bit too. But the only reason I would charge the battery is to have pre heating during ski holiday (in Austria &#128526. And we going to Austria this summer as well. Looking forward to test IAS on dry alpine roads.

[lexieke]

According to the product specialists that I have been talking to, the minimal percentage that you need to have to do preheating is between 20% and 30%. Not sure if it's correct, I asked 3 persons and all 3 of them gave me a slightly different answer.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by lexieke

According to the product specialists that I have been talking to, the minimal percentage that you need to have to do preheating is between 20% and 30%. Not sure if it's correct, I asked 3 persons and all 3 of them gave me a slightly different answer.

In the 40e it was around 20% I remember. And I also remember that it was really comfortable not having to clean the windows and sitting in a heated cabin. I drove in sport to the slopes to maximally charge my battery (and maximally ruin the clean alpine air &#129300. It used 10-15 of battery capacity for each session. But the 45e has a much larger one so that should be better. And in the 45e it will even preheat the seats and steering wheel.

[perikifi]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

16l that sounds very environmental and ecological

Well, with all that charging, I drove back fully electric, so you can halve the consumption.

The distance was 57 km and I had 1 km left when back home, and started with 90% full battery. This was with a lot of heating on and soft snow tires, half the distance on twisty hilly small roads (40 to 60 km/h) and the other half on secondary roads (80 km/h) and some city driving. I am thinking that in summer conditions and on an easier secondary road, 80+ km electric is doable.

[W0ut]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

Thanks for the tip. I think I will be doing quite some electric km tomorrow. I will see what happens to the engine temp. Ps in het Nederlands door gaan zal toch niet echt de bedoeling zijn op een Engels talig forum? Of kan dat?

No continue in English. Several Finnish and UK members have replied to this post as well.

[W0ut]

Originally Posted by perikifi

I just charged mine from 25 % to 90 % while driving 60 km this morning. Some city driving, some 80 km/h and some 60 km/h resulted in around 16 l/100km consumption (0 km electric). I will be driving back this afternoon to see if it goes electric all the way.

I noticed this high charging rate while driving as well. Don't know about the 1:1 ratio but roughly 10min of highway added +-10km of electric range.

The thing that puzzles me with this is: If you can almost fully charge your battery with a 70 minute drive (rough estimate). Why the hell do we only have 3.7kWh support when using a charging cable (>six hours)?

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by W0ut

I noticed this high charging rate while driving as well. Don't know about the 1:1 ratio but roughly 10min of highway added +-10km of electric range.

The thing that puzzles me with this is: If you can almost fully charge your battery with a 70 minute drive (rough estimate). Why the hell do we only have 3.7kWh (>six hours to a full charge) support when using a charging cable?

Indeed, I had the same thoughts. High charging rate when driving but almost 7 hours with the charging cable. That doesn't make sense.

[perikifi]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

Indeed, I had the same thoughts. High charging rate when driving but almost 7 hours with the charging cable. That doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I would say that this is the only design fault I've found in the car so far. Charging while shopping or having lunch or going to the movies is just not worth the hassle, because of the low charging power. Unless of course you get a nice parking spot near the entrance

I can only think this design is due to some stupid product positioning reasons, PHEVs vs. BEVs. Even the 10 kWh battery BMWs charge at 3.7 kW. Three-phase 16A or 11 kW would be reasonable for the 45e, getting really fast to some 80 %. BMW definitely has some catching up to do with EVs.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by perikifi

Yeah, I would say that this is the only design fault I've found in the car so far. Charging while shopping or having lunch or going to the movies is just not worth the hassle, because of the low charging power. Unless of course you get a nice parking spot near the entrance

I can only think this design is due to some stupid product positioning reasons, PHEVs vs. BEVs. Even the 10 kWh battery BMWs charge at 3.7 kW. Three-phase 16A or 11 kW would be reasonable for the 45e, getting really fast to some 80 %. BMW definitely has some catching up to do with EVs.

Excellent point. The only reason I charge in town are the good parking spots. They are well located, bigger and not occupied even when it's busy. And I do plug in and start charging to be fair with other electric car users.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by perikifi

Well, with all that charging, I drove back fully electric, so you can halve the consumption.

The distance was 57 km and I had 1 km left when back home, and started with 90% full battery. This was with a lot of heating on and soft snow tires, half the distance on twisty hilly small roads (40 to 60 km/h) and the other half on secondary roads (80 km/h) and some city driving. I am thinking that in summer conditions and on an easier secondary road, 80+ km electric is doable.

Thanks for testing. In the summer probably a longer range indeed. I presume in Finland it will be colder than in Belgium? Did you see what your engine temperature was after your 57 km electric drive? I have done some reading about other PHEV and some engage the ICE from time to time below -10 C to heat and circulate the oil in order to prepare the engine when it's needed. Did you see this with the X5?

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

Excellent point. The only reason I charge in town are the good parking spots. They are well located, bigger and not occupied even when it's busy. And I do plug in and start charging to be fair with other electric car users.

Do you have a subscription for using public charging points? Any recommendations also for use in other European countries.

[perikifi]

Originally Posted by perikifi

I just charged mine from 25 % to 90 % while driving 60 km this morning. Some city driving, some 80 km/h and some 60 km/h resulted in around 16 l/100km consumption (0 km electric). I will be driving back this afternoon to see if it goes electric all the way. And same thing tomorrow, will test gas only without charging to see how much charging adds to the consumption.

Note that it's not exactly Sport mode but rather Battery control mode, you make it sporty by tilting the gear selector to the left into M/S position. It keeps the RPM higher than normal, probably helping with the charging speed.

A few more data points. I needed to repeat yesterday's drive that was with battery control and M/S and 16 l/100km consumption. So I drove Hybrid and started with an empty battery. I got 8.2 l/100km consumption during 58 km, of which 10 km ended up being eDriving due to frequent downhill charging on the route.

So Battery control adds some 8 l/100km to the consumption, with which you get some 0.75 e-km per 1 km driven. Not so surprisingly, it does not make sense to create electricity with gas, but the ratio is not as bad as I feared.

I drove back with Battery control and this time without gear selector M/S position. The consumption was 15.4 l/100km and a 65 km trip generated a 70 % battery charge level increase.

[perikifi]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

Thanks for testing. In the summer probably a longer range indeed. I presume in Finland it will be colder than in Belgium? Did you see what your engine temperature was after your 57 km electric drive? I have done some reading about other PHEV and some engage the ICE from time to time below -10 C to heat and circulate the oil in order to prepare the engine when it's needed. Did you see this with the X5?

It's been +3 to -3 degrees C so not really winter this year so far in the South of Finland. I am pretty sure that no ICE has been involved in Electric and temp remains at minimum. I am also a bit worried about what happens at -20 deg, both with battery capacity availability and sudden usage of ICE.

[X5 45e]

I have my new motion card from 2016. And it is still active. The app name however changed to Shell recharge. I have used it in Belgium, Holland, France and Germany. Be careful, the price they ask per Kwh is not displayed and can vary a lot. I once charged while having lunch on the Autobahn. There was 5 euro connection cost and I only charged 2 KWh total was 9 euro. For as far as I remember I had connection problems in France once but it works on most chargers. Charging at a short stop is not very useful. If I visit Holland and there is a charger close to my destination and I stay for a couple of hours I plug in and that makes sense. Don't forget your Menneskes cable ! I put it in the compartment under the floor in the trunk, had to take out net.

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by perikifi

A few more data points. I needed to repeat yesterday's drive that was with battery control and M/S and 16 l/100km consumption. So I drove Hybrid and started with an empty battery. I got 8.2 l/100km consumption during 58 km, of which 10 km ended up being eDriving due to frequent downhill charging on the route.

So Battery control adds some 8 l/100km to the consumption, with which you get some 0.75 e-km per 1 km driven. Not so surprisingly, it does not make sense to create electricity with gas, but the ratio is not as bad as I feared.

I drove back with Battery control and this time without gear selector M/S position. The consumption was 15.4 l/100km and a 65 km trip generated a 70 % battery charge level increase.

So battery control doubles consumption?

Maybe a stupid question but why can't the battery be charged with normal ICE use and consumption or constantly charged from rotation of the wheels?

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

So battery control doubles consumption?

Maybe a stupid question but why can't the battery be charged with normal ICE use and consumption or constantly charged from rotation of the wheels?

You would have invented free energy 🤓🤔! The electromotor works as en generator to charge the battery like a dynamo on a bike. In order to make electricity it needs energy. If you release the gas it will brake on the elektromotor to make electricity. So if you drive at a sertain speed and you want to charge the battery it will cost you more energy ( the ICE has to work more to maintain the same speed)

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by perikifi

It's been +3 to -3 degrees C so not really winter this year so far in the South of Finland. I am pretty sure that no ICE has been involved in Electric and temp remains at minimum. I am also a bit worried about what happens at -20 deg, both with battery capacity availability and sudden usage of ICE.

At those low temperatures I would precondition if possible (comfortable and better range) And maybe the electronics in hybrid mode are smart enough to start the ICE and warm it up. And if it is not maybe you should do it your self by putting it in sport?

[perikifi]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

So battery control doubles consumption?

Maybe a stupid question but why can't the battery be charged with normal ICE use and consumption or constantly charged from rotation of the wheels?

Yes, it doubles the consumption on this particular route, and for that you get the free electric kilometers. Ideally, with consumption doubling, you would get the same amount of eDrive kilometers as you drove ICE. In my test it was about 75 % e-km that you get in reality.

There are a number of laws of physics that insist on nobody getting a completely free lunch, or ride in this case A number of extra hp/kW are required for charging. My guess (based on an understanding of said laws) is that the increase in consumption for charging is +8 l/100km. It doubled only because my base consumption happened to also be 8 liters.

While I'm at it: the energy content of a liter of gas is around 9 kWh. During 60 km the additional consumption of 8 l/100km resulted in about 5 liters of extra gas burnt, producing 45 kWh of torque and heat. Since I managed to charge 70 % of 21 kWh, or 15 kWh, the (marginal) efficiency of the ICE would be 33 %, which is good, as the overall efficiency of an ICE should be between 20 and 35 %.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by perikifi

Yes, it doubles the consumption on this particular route, and for that you get the free electric kilometers. Ideally, with consumption doubling, you would get the same amount of eDrive kilometers as you drove ICE. In my test it was about 75 % e-km that you get in reality.

There are a number of laws of physics that insist on nobody getting a completely free lunch, or ride in this case A number of extra hp/kW are required for charging. My guess (based on an understanding of said laws) is that the increase in consumption for charging is +8 l/100km. It doubled only because my base consumption happened to also be 8 liters.

While I'm at it: the energy content of a liter of gas is around 9 kWh. During 60 km the additional consumption of 8 l/100km resulted in about 5 liters of extra gas burnt, producing 45 kWh of torque and heat. Since I managed to charge 70 % of 21 kWh, or 15 kWh, the (marginal) efficiency of the ICE would be 33 %, which is good, as the overall efficiency of an ICE should be between 20 and 35 %.

Ouf, and that on a Sunday afternoon. Engeneer? 😜

[perikifi]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

At those low temperatures I would precondition if possible (comfortable and better range) And maybe the electronics in hybrid mode are smart enough to start the ICE and warm it up. And if it is not maybe you should do it your self by putting it in sport?

My thoughts exactly. My understanding is that when preconditioning, the batteries and cabin will be warmed up but not the ICE. If electronics does not think ICE needs warming up, I will do that myself even if it wastes a few centiliters of gas. I actually have Sport individual set up in all comfort settings for this exact reason so that I'll have engine running, RPM displayed and comfortable driving. For sporty driving, I use Sport standard. Now that I think about it, it may be that the M/S gear selector position achieves the same goals even easier.

[perikifi]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

Ouf, and that on a Sunday afternoon. Engeneer? 😜

How could you tell?

[2REP]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

Do you have a subscription for using public charging points? Any recommendations also for use in other European countries.

I have a public charging card through the company who "manages" my wall charger (so I can invoice my company). They claim to have access to 45K charging points in Europe.

I also have a New Motion and Plugsurfing card. With those I'm covered for most of Europe