[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by T3PO

The bottom is what I wanted. So In theory a long road trip I will get ~33 mpg.

No, that assumes you exhaust one tank of gas and one full battery to get that inflated MPG number. On long roadtrip likely you only refeuling without recharging so you will see something a bit under 30

Originally Posted by T3PO

While normal week to week driving I will get more because I can charge overnight and then swap between ev, hybrid and spirited driving. So a tank of gas, in theory, with normal day to day driving of less than 20 miles per day could last more than a month?

Depends on how much engine you use, but should last a long long time

[T3PO]

Originally Posted by alanzyy

Depends on how much engine you use, but should last a long long time

Bro that is all I have been looking for, 1 tank of gas w full ev charge, what mpg can you get under ideal conditions. So if I take a longer trip, and cannot charge I will get 28-30 mpg?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by T3PO

Bro that is all I have been looking for, 1 tank of gas w full ev charge, what mpg can you get under ideal conditions. So if I take a longer trip, and cannot charge I will get 28-30 mpg?

No one drives under ideal conditions. Depending on speed, traffic, etc. I would think you should be able to get between 25 - 30 mpg on a road trip.

[jad03060]

On my 45e, from NH to MI and back, with little opportunity to recharge, I averaged about 28mpg (that's over 2000-miles).

One's definition of a road trip is open ended, so without more details, the answers can be skewed considerably.

You'll see a big difference between cruising at 70 versus 80...the drag goes up with the square of the speed. That trip was mostly at about 75-mph on adaptive cruise. The 50e should get a little better unless you trounce on it.

[tooloud10]

Seems like I get 28mpg pretty regularly on my 45e even with the EV battery at —, but it’s odd to me that the EPA rating is only 19/22.

[jad03060]

As was noted, it's hard to not get some benefit from the hybrid system regardless of what the computer thinks about estimated range left.

[cobramite]

28 MPG for a near 3 ton vehicle is damn good by any standards.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by jad03060

As was noted, it's hard to not get some benefit from the hybrid system regardless of what the computer thinks about estimated range left.

Right, but makes me wonder why the ‘official’ figures are so low—in fact, lower than the standard 40i model.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

Seems like I get 28mpg pretty regularly on my 45e even with the EV battery at —, but it’s odd to me that the EPA rating is only 19/22.

I don't think BMW ever claim 45e is 19/22. I have only see 52MPGe and 20MPG combined after usable HVB is depleted. I think it is not too far from reality. In my experience, combine MPG when I don't charge HVB at all, it is 22MPG.

Originally Posted by tooloud10

Right, but makes me wonder why the ‘official’ figures are so low—in fact, lower than the standard 40i model.

This can easily be explained. 20MPG after HVB depleted vs 22MPG from 40i. First is 40i is 800lb lighter. When non Plug in HEV is better than same ICE is because non P Hybrid only need 1-2kWh of HVB. For example, Highlander hybrid only carry 1.9kWh. 45e carries 24kWh. If you don't charge the car, most of these 24kWh is just dead weight. Hybrid's main advantage is stop and go traffic. Here 800lb sure make a impact. Second is 40i gears advantage. On highway, 40i will run at lower RPM than 45e. So both ends give advantage to 40i.

I have a table posted somewhere, but quick calculation. At the same highway speed, where both will be at 8th gear. 45e needs to spin ICE at 2425 RPM, 40i only need to speed at 2166. Difference is 15%. Speed at this RPM should be ~71.5MPH. My math may be off. But gear ratio numbers are from BMW

[jad03060]

In the USA, the EPA test for fuel efficiency is a fairly strict set of conditions to make comparisons between vehicles more reliable. Ideally, it represents the real world, but it will never be perfect (it's done on a rolling test bed so air resistance isn't a factor). One reason why the Euro standard gets different numbers is the test is done differently. Theirs estimates longer range/efficiency than the EPA tests.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I don't think BMW ever claim 45e is 19/22. I have only see 52MPGe and 20MPG combined after usable HVB is depleted. I think it is not too far from reality. In my experience, combine MPG when I don't charge HVB at all, it is 22MPG.

EPA figures are mostly self-reported by the manufacturers so it’s likely that they absolutely did claim 19/22, which equates to about 20mpg combined.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

Right, but makes me wonder why the ‘official’ figures are so low—in fact, lower than the standard 40i model.

They come from EPA testing which rarely, if ever, reflects real world usage.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

EPA figures are mostly self-reported by the manufacturers so it’s likely that they absolutely did claim 19/22, which equates to about 20mpg combined.

I have never seen it on any officially BMW document. Maybe I missed. Care to share? I have only see BMW dealers website declare these. But we all know how accurate BWM dealers are.

I think 20 combine without HVB isn't far off. 28MPG on highway is also with HVB. I get this as well. When HVB is gone, then it is more like 25-26MPG

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I have never seen it on any officially BMW document. Maybe I missed. Care to share? I have only see BMW dealers website declare these. But we all know how accurate BWM dealers are.

19/22 are the official EPA figures that are self-reported in most cases. The EPA just spot checks certain vehicles. Hyundai/Kia famously misrepresented mileage a few years back and had to send a bunch of owners some money.

I think 20 combine without HVB isn't far off. 28MPG on highway is also with HVB. I get this as well. When HVB is gone, then it is more like 25-26MPG

Still much better than 22mpg, but I think I see about the same.

[TexAg91]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Using my estimation method, here is your number. ICE MPG and Edrive mi/kwH are inline with the rest

Now that I've taken delivery of my X5 50e, I have observed that while your formula for calculating ICE only MPG is correct, there are some important caveats to take into consideration. The trip computer/app data your formula is using is only for ICE fuel consumption and distance traveled when the ICE is running. So the 22 MPG estimate while technically correct, is overly pessimistic as it doesn't take into account any efficiencies gained when the engine is off due to energy recuperation.

When the PHEV battery is down to a 0% SOC, the 50e still acts as a strong hybrid and will shut off the engine when coasting, or at a stop light, or even when driving at low to medium speeds over short distances -- it's being a strong hybrid and is using the energy being recuperated. Any distance traveled with the ICE off is not being booked against the ICE fuel consumption/distance traveled metric on the trip computer, it is being booked under the EV KwH/distance metric.

So that being the case, I would recommend the best way to estimate the actual MPG when the PHEV battery is at a 0% SOC is to take a trip in battery hold mode. For that trip, the overall MPG estimate will take into account miles traveled with the ICE off (due to energy recuperation only) as part of the MPG estimate. On a recent 55 mile trip on I-95 (in heavy traffic, in the rain, 34.8 mph average speed, lots of speeding up and slowing down), where the entire 55 mile distance was accomplished in HOLD mode, I averaged about 27 MPG.

So based on my observations, with a full battery at a 100% SOC, you can expect to travel 39-42 miles using only the electricity stored in the battery (100% to 0% SOC), and then average 26-30 MPG thereafter (depending on speed/driving conditions) until you recharge again.

The ~22 MPG in your calculation would only occur if the engine never shut off during the drive (I suspect you'd might see close to that MPG value in Sport Xtraboost mode).

[FastMarkA]

Here's the longest segment I've done in the 50e, as a reference point:

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by TexAg91

Now that I've taken delivery of my X5 50e, I have observed that while your formula for calculating ICE only MPG is correct, there are some important caveats to take into consideration. The trip computer/app data your formula is using is only for ICE fuel consumption and distance traveled when the ICE is running. So the 22 MPG estimate while technically correct, is overly pessimistic as it doesn't take into account any efficiencies gained when the engine is off due to energy recuperation.

When the PHEV battery is down to a 0% SOC, the 50e still acts as a strong hybrid and will shut off the engine when coasting, or at a stop light, or even when driving at low to medium speeds over short distances — it's being a strong hybrid and is using the energy being recuperated. Any distance traveled with the ICE off is not being booked against the ICE fuel consumption/distance traveled metric on the trip computer, it is being booked under the EV KwH/distance metric.

So that being the case, I would recommend the best way to estimate the actual MPG when the PHEV battery is at a 0% SOC is to take a trip in battery hold mode. For that trip, the overall MPG estimate will take into account miles traveled with the ICE off (due to energy recuperation only) as part of the MPG estimate. On a recent 55 mile trip on I-95 (in heavy traffic, in the rain, 34.8 mph average speed, lots of speeding up and slowing down), where the entire 55 mile distance was accomplished in HOLD mode, I averaged about 27 MPG.

So based on my observations, with a full battery at a 100% [...]

You are absolutely correct. I have stated this situation could be a gap in other thread. However, for my own 45e, I have done about 7 tanks of gas, from Feb of this year to about June, where I didn't charge the car at all, drove I in hybrid mode. Per tank, I take the mile drive / gas put in, and I got 22mpg. I have that table post somewhere here as well. This number matches my formula up to the whole number.

Here is my observation
1. Under stop and condition, the amount of reg is very mild. Say between two traffic lights. The main regen is the part you slow to to stop. However, this portion is small, where as soon you hit the gas paddle, car is moving, ice is on.
2. In highway, the regen is even smaller at coasting. The car know the most efficient way is minimal regen. You do get some regen to when slow down, say to exist highway, but this happens far and few in between. To get the car back up to speet, it take more energy than 40i because of the weight. In pre lci, the weight difference is 800lb, or 15%. Which is significantly.
3. In my test, if regen has meaningful mount, I should see significant edrive miles. But I don't. Per tank, I was doing about 350 miles. Trip computer recorded single digital edrive mile for every tank. Single digital here mean 5 miles. So even if I factory in 5 mile in my formula, it is a 1-1.5% different.

[TexAg91]

Originally Posted by FastMarkA

Here's the longest segment I've done in the 50e, as a reference point:

For this 95 mile trip, what was your High Voltage Battery (HVB) SOC at the beginning -- I assume you weren't in SOC hold mode? Based on the trip computer metrics, it doesn't look like your 50e HVB had a full charge (100% SOC) at the trip start. Your KwH consumed would have been higher.

That said, was the HVB (High Voltage Battery) at a 0% SOC at the trip start? If yes, then that would be indicative of the MPG you could expect in the future, once the SOC (provided by the power grid) in the HVB is depleted.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by FastMarkA

Here's the longest segment I've done in the 50e, as a reference point:

This screen capture, the missing info is out out the 94 miles, how many is ice, how many is edrive. We still can do roughly estimate.

Based on a few members sharing 50E mile/kWh number, we can assume average is about 2. This journey consumed 12.8kwh, meaning probably 25.6 miles are from edrive. Let's call it 25. So ice mile is 69, or 73.4%. So actual ice mpg is about 32.5 x 73.4% = ~24mpg. It is not unreasonable because your average speed is very high, 68.3. this means you were probably as fast as 85-90 at some point. This higher speed significantly impact mpg.

[FastMarkA]

The HV battery was almost full since I left from home, and battery hold was not active.

And yes, there were definitely some 85-90mph stretches (shhh).

[TexAg91]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

You are absolutely correct. I have stated this situation could be a gap in other thread. However, for my own 45e, I have done about 7 tanks of gas, from Feb of this year to about June, where I didn't charge the car at all, drove I in hybrid mode. Per tank, I take the mile drive / gas put in, and I got 22mpg. I have that table post somewhere here as well. This number matches my formula up to the whole number.

Here is my observation
1. Under stop and condition, the amount of reg is very mild. Say between two traffic lights. The main regen is the part you slow to to stop. However, this portion is small, where as soon you hit the gas paddle, car is moving, ice is on.
2. In highway, the regen is even smaller at coasting. The car know the most efficient way is minimal regen. You do get some regen to when slow down, say to exist highway, but this happens far and few in between. To get the car back up to speet, it take more energy than 40i because of the weight. In pre lci, the weight difference is 800lb, or 15%. Which is significantly.
3. In my test, if regen has meaningful mount, I should see significant edrive miles. But I don't. Per tank, I was doing about 350 miles. Trip computer recorded single digital edrive mile for every tank. Single digital here mean 5 miles. So even if I factory in 5 mile in my formula, it is a 1-1.5% different.

Interesting, if your 45e got 22 mpg on multiple tanks with the HVB at 0% using the distance traveled/gallons consumed formula, then it is what it is. I would have thought it would be higher. I wonder if the bigger electric motor in the 50e means more regen capability (a bigger electric motor = bigger generating capacity with similar kinetic energy)?

I have not done a trip on 0% SOC yet on my 50e, but will around 21 Dec. I have to take a trip from Fredericksburg VA to Charlotte NC and back. I'll start with a 100% SOC on the HVB and will use ECO pro for the trip down. I should arrive with 0% SOC, and I won't have time to recharge the HBV before the return leg. So for the return trip I should get a good data point for the actual MPG at highway speed once the HVB is depleted.

To date, I've only taken one 55 mile trip using the battery hold mode and achieved a trip MPG of 27 mpg. So I have a data point of 1 in stop and go I-95 traffic. I did that because didn't have my Lectron Telsa to J1772 adapter, and was having to use 110 power to recharge the 50e. FYI -- it was taking 24+ hours to go from 0-100% SOC in the 50e using 110 power. Anyway, at the start of this 55 mile trip home, I had about 3 miles of EV range. So I turned on SOC hold mode to save myself about 2 hours of charging to get it back to 100%, and I was curious to see what kind of mpg I would achieve.

With my Telsa charger and the Lectron adapter, I can now recharge my 50e at 32A, so it only takes about 3 hrs to go from a 0-100% HVB SOC. I intend to use a much grid power as possible moving forward. Costco is such a pain.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by TexAg91

Interesting, if your 45e got 22 mpg on multiple tanks with the HVB at 0% using the distance traveled/gallons consumed formula, then it is what it is. I would have thought it would be higher. I wonder if the bigger electric motor in the 50e means more regen capability (a bigger electric motor = bigger generating capacity with similar kinetic energy)?

I have not done a trip on 0% SOC yet on my 50e, but will around 21 Dec. I have to take a trip from Fredericksburg VA to Charlotte NC and back. I'll start with a 100% SOC on the HVB and will use ECO pro for the trip down. I should arrive with 0% SOC, and I won't have time to recharge the HBV before the return leg. So for the return trip I should get a good data point for the actual MPG at highway speed once the HVB is depleted.

To date, I've only taken one 55 mile trip using the battery hold mode and achieved a trip MPG of 27 mpg. So I have a data point of 1 in stop and go I-95 traffic. I did that because didn't have my Lectron Telsa to J1772 adapter, and was having to use 110 power to recharge the 50e. FYI — it was taking 24+ hours to go from 0-100% SOC in the 50e using 110 power. Anyway, at the start of this 55 mile trip home, I had about 3 miles of EV range. So I turned on SOC hold mode to save myself about 2 hours of charging to get it back to 100%, and I was curious to see what kind of mpg I would achieve.

With my Telsa charger and the Lectron adapter, I can now recharge my 50e at 32A, so it only takes about 3 hrs to go from a 0-100% HVB SOC. I intend to use a much grid power as possible moving [...]

I am not sure strong regen is the answer. Regen is double edge saw. Strong regen is good for slowing down to a stop (1 paddle driving) because no energy is wasted by brake. However, in coasting you don’t want car to slow down by regen. Slow down in coasting by regen , the speed up again using HVB, thr net is not zero. That is why In Hybrid eco pro, there is zero gen most of the time.

I think the real culprit is the HVB size if we use PHEV as HEV. HVB really never get more than 10%, this mean 90% of the HVB isn’t used. That is a good 600-700lb of dead weight. Think Toyota Highlander hybrid has only 2kWh battery. This is why I keep saying, being able to charge is the necessary condition form PHEV ownership.

As for mpg number, bmw actually says 45e combined mpg after HVB is depleted is 20mpg. My single data point real world test is already 22, so not too bad. I wonder bmw will ever publish the same figures for 50e.